7/31/17 - aeromancer - Runed Honor (V)(4953 words)

[aeromancer]

It's been a while since I submitted. I'm still working on short stories, and this is another one. One of the characters might be familiar, Rune, who was the protagonist of 'Quenched in Flames'. On an aside ,I think this is the only time I was thankful for the word count limit. I had to seriously tighten up the dialogue to fit under cap. On a further aside, yes, I'm aware the title is a terrible pun. We're Sanderfans. We're allowed to make terrible puns.

Anyway, I'm looking for any and all comments you could make, but focusing on the build-up and character interactions would be good.

[Paracosmic_nomenclator]

As I go:

-"In addition, most synergist" should be synergists

-"Using his own complete control over the water in the vial," Don't understand this. Is this supposed to explain how he can form a focus through the water? Or is it supposed to be unexplained? Everything else about the magic system makes sense, and is well done, it's just this one part that's confusing me.

-"Your cousin Haley asked..." You need a quotation mark in front of this.

-"I’m sorry for the rough awakening, but I couldn’t wake you without it" this sentence feels slightly awkward to me due to the repition of 'wake' Maybe something like 'but it was the best I could manage' or 'but it was the only way'

-"He noted, with a combination of satisfaction and horro" should be horror

-"Anything reasonably jarring plane shift" shouldn't this be 'any reasonably jarring...'

Overall:

I really liked it. The magic systems are really interesting, and the moral dillema is well set-up. I feel like I'm missing a bit of requesite backstory, but I enjoyed both Venoriet and Rune and their interactions. I was a bit unclear on whether Tsaph's identity was subsumed by Destiny's, whether they merged, or whether Tsaph could just draw on Destiny's memories. I also dodn't quite understand why the Host was such a bad thing. I'll admit to skimming the action scenes, but I do that with almost all books, and yours are better than most. I really enjoyed the world and characters you've set up, and look forward to reading more about them.

[kais]

Welcome back!

Overall

Your writing gets better and better, but some persistent issues remain (such as the death that doesn't stick issue that I bring up every time). Props for an excellent gender balance though in your characters, per usual.

My main issue with the piece was the dialogue, which seemed to all have the same voice, and seemed forced. Noting what you said about cutting stuff down, I wonder if just a simple read through and tweak wouldn't fix it up?

As I go

- life flower or white flower? Confusion here

- bit infodumpy at the bottom of page four

- I keep reading 'Focus' as "Force', and getting Star Wars vibes

- page six: the dialogue here, and with the little girl at the start, seems stilted. None of the characters have a distinct 'voice', I think, which is most of the problem. Who they are should come out more in the words they chose

- page seven: how does he get up and walk away if he gave all his energy to the dying girl? Surely his energy doesn't just replenish in a  matter of minutes. If so, he really isn't giving anything up to heal, is he? This is the same issue as with your people who die but don't really die, from previous subs. Just need the consequences of actions to stick, to make the cost actually be a cost

- page twelve: the dialogue continues to have the above issue. If I stripped the dialogue tags, I would have no idea who was saying what. Everyone talks the same, and it seems forced

- WRS? I can't remember the buy-in for these characters. It's making it hard to care about the outcome of this fight.

- page fourteen: need some type of mark to show we're switching scenes and POVs. I was confused there for a minute

- page seventeen: I've mentioned this numerous times but again, characters who cannot die make for boring characters. Without stakes, why do I care about the fighting. If they will just regenerate, why fight at all?

- I'm not sure what they are talking about on page eighteen

 

[Robinski]

Hey there. Interested to read another of your stories. The title tripped my straight away, is it ‘Runed’ or ‘Ruined’? It kind of looks like a typo.

• I’m drawn into the story, which is good. I like this first interaction, although some of the language could be tidied up.
• “He was a synergist specialized in healing, but Haley was as cheerful as ever” – I didn’t get this first time, it feels like a non-sequitur. Cheerful is not the opposite of being unwell.
• “Your cousin, right?” – she just said that, makes him look a bit dense.
• “being that life threatening” – isn’t it either life-threatening or not? This felt off to me.
• “The bed held a sick girl” – this is very offhand, dismissive.
• There’s something off here. Ven says “I came as soon as I could” – which implies someone called him, but earlier he implies he passes this way anyway as part of his routine. I see then that he’s early.
• There’s something very curt about the style, there’s no doubt or consideration, it’s just boom, boom, boom. She’s sick; it’s this; I can cure that; here’s an ointment; I’ll go tell my wife. It almost feels like an outline for a story, a skeleton that lacks all the colour and detail and character that brings stories to life.
• “It was as simple as flexing a finger for him” – I like this line. It conveys capability, but it’s a small thing, so doesn’t make him seem super-powerful. In fact, I also like how you’ve underlined that he’s out of his depth here.
• “Liquid water” – Hmm, there is something redundant here. Water, automatically, is a liquid – if it was solid, it wouldn’t be called water.
• There are a lot of typos around here. I'm not highlighting them.
• “Eh-huh” – I'm not keen on this. You said already that she coughed. I’m not sure what it adds. Although, do you know, it’s sort of growing on me. Difficult thing to convey. I don’t think I would have known it was a cough if you hadn’t said so. I’d be wary about over-using it, and once you’ve explained the first time it’s a cough, imho, I wouldn’t think you needed to mention it again.
• We’re back to the very off-hand stuff. Sa is sooo calmly accepting of her fate. There’s a great opportunity there for some real emotion in the story, but she is completely emotionless about it, as is Ven, apart from a tiny bit of surprise.
• I'm totally confused at the bit that Destiny is referred to. I don’t think it’s clear at all.
• “That’s all right” – wow, err, no one seems to be at all concerned here.
• “I would definitely call what I did ‘my best’, so everything will turn out fine.” “She’ll be all right?” Haley asked. “That’s good, ‘cuz a witch was asking about her earlier” – I'm totally confused. For one thing, he just said he could have done more, then doesn’t explain why he didn’t. And the initial premise that doing you best means things will be fine is – ridiculous – sorry, but it is. Life is not like that. This goes back to my earlier point about the story sort of skipping past and ignoring complex emotional issues.

I finally broke down at this point, and started skipping through the story. There are some nice ideas here and I think there is potential for a good and interesting story, but this is too much of a summary, too dismissive of all the things that make a good story, like character and emotion and consideration. There’s enough bone here for a novella if you let the characters breathe, let them feel, let them think about what’s happening, let it affect them, instead of just bouncing from one thing to the next before what’s happening has time to sink in.

I hope there is something helpful here.

<R>

 

[Robinski]

On 31/07/2017 at 5:54 PM, aeromancer said:

I think this is the only time I was thankful for the word count limit

I think this killed your story, for me anyway. I feel like you took out all the things that I read for, character, thoughtfulness, emotion, (evocative) description. Sometimes a story is not the length you want it to be, or try to make it. Listening to what the WE team saying about MICE quotient is interesting in this respect. If you're writing a short, you have to consider how many characters you have, how many locations, and ideas. Having too many in a shorter piece will mean you can't do them justice in the length you're aiming for.

5 hours ago, kais said:

Your writing gets better and better, but some persistent issues remain... Props for an excellent gender balance though in your characters, per usual.

#iagreewithkais      I hope I didn't come over overwhelmingly down on this, because I am not by any means, but I think it deserves more depth, more time (words) to develop.

[industrialistDragon]

As I go:

Any relation to the Des from the previous one? That name really seems a bit on-the-nose.

Ah yes, I see it is.

"Sickly girl dying of an unspecified illness who coughs at appropriate moments" is not a great trope... 

I am very very confused by this talk of magic and focuses on page 3/4. Some of it is I think grammar-related, but not all of it.

At this point I stopped taking notes. I made it all the way through, but it was a rough go.

If these are short stories and not chapters out of a longer novel, then they need to be mostly self-contained, information-wise. Having callbacks to previous things in-universe is fine (such as the Destiny mention), but each story needs to be able to stand on its own without support. I don't feel like that's possible with this piece here.  There are too many core tenants left unexplained and it goes beyond just merely being serial series background surprises. It might seem like it makes sense when the whole universe is inside one's head, but all the reader has is what's contained in the story.  If these shorts are intended to be submissions to anthologies at some point, then there's no guarantee more than one will be in a collection, let alone every collection so that readers can accrete background through sequential volumes. There are so many things alluded to and left unexamined or unexplained here that it is very difficult for me to have any kind of sense of what's going on, why it matters, or even who these people are.

 

The writing is, as ever, solid and the action is clearly described, if not logical from where I'm standing. 

 

It can be really difficult figuring out on paper the balance between explaining too much and not explaining enough, especially when it makes so much sense in thoughts, and the only real fix is just to keep practicing, so please, keep at it! 

[rdpulfer]

- I like the opening, and how it launches you into the story.

- I also like Venorient's thoughts while talking to David. Good job keeping his motivation clear.

- "Hope? Do you not believe in that?" - this line feels a little out of place, at least in how the sentence is worded.

- Rune's entry into the story is a little too abrupt. There's not much description or anything - it's just her arguing with someone with little lead-up.

- Tsaph taking down Rune and Venorient is anti-climatic, because it's very short and it's from her POV. Also, she runs her sword through both of them?

- I do like the ending, though I agree it returns a little more explanation. 

[aeromancer]

@Paracosmic_nomenclator Thanks for the grammar edits. 

On 7/31/2017 at 10:20 PM, Paracosmic_nomenclator said:

I was a bit unclear on whether Tsaph's identity was subsumed by Destiny's, whether they merged, or whether Tsaph could just draw on Destiny's memories. I also dodn't quite understand why the Host was such a bad thing.

Last of the three options. Tsaph also get's Destiny's abilities which include rewriting it. (It's why she could come back to life). It's not a bad thing, per say, Rune just doesn't believe humans should have access to that much power. So she kills them. Thanks for the positive feedback.

 

On 8/1/2017 at 9:54 PM, kais said:

Welcome back!

Thank you. It's good to be back.

On 8/1/2017 at 9:54 PM, kais said:

My main issue with the piece was the dialogue, which seemed to all have the same voice, and seemed forced. Noting what you said about cutting stuff down, I wonder if just a simple read through and tweak wouldn't fix it up?

As I go

- life flower or white flower? Confusion here

- page seven: how does he get up and walk away if he gave all his energy to the dying girl? Surely his energy doesn't just replenish in a  matter of minutes. If so, he really isn't giving anything up to heal, is he? This is the same issue as with your people who die but don't really die, from previous subs. Just need the consequences of actions to stick, to make the cost actually be a cost

- page seventeen: I've mentioned this numerous times but again, characters who cannot die make for boring characters. Without stakes, why do I care about the fighting. If they will just regenerate, why fight at all?

- I'm not sure what they are talking about on page eighteen

The dialogue was worse before. Far worse. You'll have to trust me. That aside, I've taken a look. The dialogue could definitely use more edits. Will do.

Ah. Ven is lying when he says 'white flower', because he doesn't want rumor of it's power to spread. This can probably be made clearer. Will do.

The way Ven walks away is quite simple. T is a young human female, with very little physical activity. She probably needs around a thousand kcals of energy per day. Ven, an adult male human in very good physical condition, can easily expend five thousand kcals worth of energy in an hour. In other words, in twelve minutes, Ven can supply her with a day's worth of energy. With a perfect transfer in place, Ven can feasibly just pump energy in her body constantly with the only repercussions being that he needs to eat more steak and has less endurance than he previously had. Solid trade off. The limiting factor (and what exhausts Ven) isn't the energy transfer - it's the mental focus required to mantain it. Ven lasts about three seconds, giving T a total of six minutes. Math is fun.

Page eighteen isn't worth reading, it's really just an expodump to explain the deus ex machina. It also contradicts other things elsewhere (which you might have read - I can't remember where I ended up putting it) so I'm going to have to rewrite that somehow to.

With the whole 'consequences' thing - this I could actually use some help. I'm terrible at killing off characters. I've managed it once, and that was when the plot railroaded it down my throat. Also, essentially no one in the main cast of this story can die, except should they be hit by Rune's Axe (which doesn't happen). So, assuming that I'm not going to be killing anyone, do you have any ideas for throwing in a sense of reality to this?

 

On 8/2/2017 at 3:25 AM, Robinski said:

Hey there. Interested to read another of your stories. The title tripped my straight away, is it ‘Runed’ or ‘Ruined’? It kind of looks like a typo.

It's a pun. It's always a pun. I don't make mistakes, I just make increasingly worse puns. Now, I'm going to cherry-pick some of your points. For pun.

On 8/2/2017 at 3:25 AM, Robinski said:

• “Liquid water” – Hmm, there is something redundant here. Water, automatically, is a liquid – if it was solid, it wouldn’t be called water.
• “Eh-huh” – I'm not keen on this. You said already that she coughed. I’m not sure what it adds. Although, do you know, it’s sort of growing on me. Difficult thing to convey. I don’t think I would have known it was a cough if you hadn’t said so. I’d be wary about over-using it, and once you’ve explained the first time it’s a cough, imho, I wouldn’t think you needed to mention it again.
• We’re back to the very off-hand stuff. Sa is sooo calmly accepting of her fate. There’s a great opportunity there for some real emotion in the story, but she is completely emotionless about it, as is Ven, apart from a tiny bit of surprise.
• “I would definitely call what I did ‘my best’, so everything will turn out fine.” “She’ll be all right?” Haley asked. “That’s good, ‘cuz a witch was asking about her earlier” – I'm totally confused. For one thing, he just said he could have done more, then doesn’t explain why he didn’t. And the initial premise that doing you best means things will be fine is – ridiculous – sorry, but it is. Life is not like that. This goes back to my earlier point about the story sort of skipping past and ignoring complex emotional issues.

I suppose when you think water, you think liquid. When I think water, I think dihydrogen oxide along with it's assorted chemical properties (it expands upon freezing, for starters), which is why I felt the need to specify liquid. Especially considering that solid water ('ice' is term, right?) isn't a focus for life, it's actually a focus for death in synergistics.

I was experimenting with onomatopoeia to see the reaction I would get. I'll keep the first cough, lose the rest, then.

Here's the thing with Sa emotions. The normal spread of emotions I would pick for this are the five stages of grief. Thing is, in order for Sa to be a Host, she needs to be solidly in the fifth stage, acceptance. Acceptance, is calm and rational, it's not an emotional stage. Although, now that I write this, the way to use emotion in Sa would be to have her flashback to the first four stages. Thanks.

I reserve the right to give a six year old a naive and optimistic world mindset. Even an exceptionally precocious six year old. The dialogue itself needs changing, you're right about the fact that Ven needs to explain himself better, but I don't think I'm willing to change Haley's mindset.

On 8/2/2017 at 3:25 AM, Robinski said:

There are some nice ideas here and I think there is potential for a good and interesting story, but this is too much of a summary, too dismissive of all the things that make a good story, like character and emotion and consideration. There’s enough bone here for a novella if you let the characters breathe, let them feel, let them think about what’s happening, let it affect them, instead of just bouncing from one thing to the next before what’s happening has time to sink in.

I hope there is something helpful here.

<R>

In a nutshell: This is a good foundation for something longer. Now that I look this over, yeah. It really could use another five thousand or so words. Thanks for the support.

 

19 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

Any relation to the Des from the previous one? That name really seems a bit on-the-nose.

Yes in spirit, no in reality. The previous Des took an axe to the neck which wiped him from existence.

19 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

If these are short stories and not chapters out of a longer novel, then they need to be mostly self-contained, information-wise. Having callbacks to previous things in-universe is fine (such as the Destiny mention), but each story needs to be able to stand on its own without support. I don't feel like that's possible with this piece here.  There are too many core tenants left unexplained and it goes beyond just merely being serial series background surprises. It might seem like it makes sense when the whole universe is inside one's head, but all the reader has is what's contained in the story.  If these shorts are intended to be submissions to anthologies at some point, then there's no guarantee more than one will be in a collection, let alone every collection so that readers can accrete background through sequential volumes. There are so many things alluded to and left unexamined or unexplained here that it is very difficult for me to have any kind of sense of what's going on, why it matters, or even who these people are.

Yeah, @Robinski mentioned similar points. If I stretch this out and flesh it out more, would you guys be interested in reading this again?

20 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

The writing is, as ever, solid and the action is clearly described, if not logical from where I'm standing. 

Really? You can't just drop a line like this. What's illogical about my fighting? *looks over* Oh. Everything. Like why doesn't Rune doesn't take her axe out in the first place? Point taken, but I think I'll keep it the way it is.

 

@rdpulfer Thanks for the feedback as well. The ending sequence needs to be changed, so there's that. I will also make sure to flesh out Rune's entrance. Originally, she actually had a POV, but I took it out to make the 5k limit. The vibe I'm getting is that I tried fitting a square peg into a round hole half it's size.

[kais]

1 hour ago, aeromancer said:

So, assuming that I'm not going to be killing anyone, do you have any ideas for throwing in a sense of reality to this?

Well, I think you basically have two options. 1) no fighting, because there are no stakes, and work on emotional development instead (which your characters could use in this piece for sure). 2) allow for damage that looses abilities. If they can't die, but can be injured, there are at least some stakes. Work out some type of system where certain types of damage have permanent effects that echo through the whole piece. No recovery. If Character X gets her arm chopped off, it doesn't grow back, and that two-handed katana now can't be used and X has to learn a new sword, which means she is now a terrible sword fighter. Character Y gets speared through the kidney and now has a dialysis machine he can't go anywhere without and he keeps getting tangled in the cords, and this amazing hero is now mostly useless except maybe as a brilliant tactician (see, character growth! He has to give up fighting but his mind is still good and now he leads!).

Basically, actions have to have consequences, and those consequences have to be permanent. It doesn't have to be death, but you have to give us something.