Uses of Hemalurgy

[Calderis]

10 minutes ago, Cowmanthethird said:

I've seen Brandon RAFO several questions about whether materials other than metal can be used in hemalurgy. Its my personal opinion that hemalurgy has been mistaken, in universe, as a metallic art, when its really just a universal way to manipulate investiture. There really is no proof either way until we see someone steal something other than allomancy or feruchemy, or Brandon finally answers that question though.

I agree, but considering it's place and nature of development, as an outgrowth of Ruin and Scadrial, until proven otherwise, I will stand by it being a metal based magic. 

For it to function differently than every other magic system we've seen in the Cosmere, undermines the consistency of the realmatic that make the Cosmere what it is. 

If it is proven otherwise, I'm going to want an explanation. 

[Hawkido]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Hemalurgy is its own magic system. It does not hijack the focus of other magics, it developed between Scadrial and Ruin and thus uses metal as its focus. 

It should function exactly the same cosmere wide, just like any other system. Allomancy uses Metal on Roshar. Awakening is fueled by Breath. Surgebinding requires a Spren and Stormlight. 

Hemalurgy uses metal spikes. It is it's own system. 

Hemalurgy is its own magic system.  Its sole focus is hijacking a magic system at a loss.  Allomancy uses metals, therefore hemalurgy would use metals to steal allomantic powers, Feruchemy is a blend of the 2 shard's powers, and as such uses metals.  Feruchemy can "Steal" powers but it is not a messy (Losey?) process but it HAS to use metals to do so.  The only way we have seen it used is via spikes.  But as stated by @Cowmanthethird questions about whether wood, stone, gems, etc... can be used to spike have all been flatly RAFO'd.  While you would be correct to say that is not a confirmation, if the answer were no, there wouldn't be a lot of reason to RAFO it.  Perhaps Brandon hasn't decided how it will be used, Creative Process and all, or we have already seen examples, and not realized it, and he doesn't want to reveal too much.

If Ruin hadn't paired up with Preservation, would you assume metals would be intrinsic?  If anyone, anywhere, who understands hemalurgy, can use hemalurgy to steal investiture (so long as it is at a loss) without being invested in by Ruin, why limit the scope of the power based solely on the observation of "This is the only way we have seen it used."  This doesn't mean that you are wrong, and people (like me) who have a more open view on the capability of hemalurgy, acknowledge that the only known example of Hemalurgy being used involves using Metal, does not mean we are wrong.  It just means we are not going to limit an unknown when we only have inclusive limits not exclusive limits.

 

*EDIT*  @Calderis  Ahh I see where you are comming from.  If I viewed Hemalurgy in that fashion, I might hold to the same conclusion.  But from the start I always viewed Hemalurgy as a completely seperate power, not related at all to Allomancy.  the only power that is related is Feruchemy as it is the blend power.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Hawkido

[Calderis]

@Hawkidothe focus of a magic system is determined by the planet that a Shard invests in. Ruin is invested into Scadrial and we know it's focus. 

 

[Hawkido]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

@Hawkidothe focus of a magic system is determined by the planet that a Shard invests in. Ruin is invested into Scadrial and we know it's focus. 

 

But Ruin (Atrophy) happens everywhere, thus anyone can use it. Else no one would die and rot.  Stars would not explode.

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, Hawkido said:

But Ruin (Atrophy) happens everywhere, thus anyone can use it. Else no one would die and rot.  Stars would not explode.

You're conflating the Shard with the natural process. Ruin's Intent pushes for him to increase Entropy. 

Entropy would not cease if Ruin were Splintered. 

The Shard is invested in Scadrial, and it's magic system developed from the interaction with that planet, and so it's focus should be directly related to that planet. 

The rest of the Cosmere is irrelevant beyond the fact that Hemalurgy can function anywhere if you have the knowledge and intent to use it specifically, which would require the knowledge of spikes. 

[Hawkido]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

You're conflating the Shard with the natural process. Ruin's Intent pushes for him to increase Entropy. 

Entropy would not cease if Ruin were Splintered. 

The Shard is invested in Scadrial, and it's magic system developed from the interaction with that planet, and so it's focus should be directly related to that planet. 

The rest of the Cosmere is irrelevant beyond the fact that Hemalurgy can function anywhere if you have the knowledge and intent to use it specifically, which would require the knowledge of spikes. 

Could Hemalurgy be used prior to Scandrial being created by Ruin and Preservation?  The answer is yes.  Hoid can burn the Brass and Zinc of Roshar, the Metals are not the investiture, it is just a focus.  Allomantic metals are the focus of Allomancy, we all agree to that, Feruchemy also uses Allomantic Metals, as it is a blend of Hemalurgy and Allomancy.  Hemalurgy uses Allomantic metals, but can it use other mediums (non-Allomantic Metals?)  Vasher can burn stormlight instead of Breaths, Night Blood can consume all forms of Investiture.  But Vasher is the better example, one form of investiture can use a different focus when in a different sphere of influence.  We just haven't seen how Hemalurgy works in a different sphere of influence that we know, so many are looking for Spikes and earrings, but nothing else.  Ruin turns a force against, well not itself exactly, perhaps I will say "its environment".  If Vasher can burn stormlight he draws from gems instead of Breath given by people (the weeping would kill him if not for gems), then Hemalurgy COULD use a different focus when on a different planet.  Plus Brandon said that hemalurgy would behave wildly different on other planets (is this a hint about not-metal spikes?).  All you need is knowledge and Intent (Notice that Brandon DID NOT SAY "and Spikes of metal").  Lessie's spike did not use an Allomantic metal. and all allomantic metals are known (Save god metals, which all shards may not produce metals, Edglinium has a nice ring to it tho)  So Far all of the evidence that Hemalurgy uses Metals is Inclusive, not Exclusive (Metals can be used, can anything else?)  The Evidence we have does not Exclude this possibility.  Planets have a focus (a gateway for the power of investiture to traverse), but shards do not, as Vin Directly Fueled Elend's Allomancy and as Preservation can not create, where did the metals Elend burnt come from?  

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Elend’s pewter ran out.

“You cannot beat me, Elend Venture,” Marsh said in a voice like gravel. “We’ve killed your wife. I will kill you.” Vin.  Elend didn’t believe it. Vin will come , he thought. She’ll save us.

Faith. It was a strange thing to feel at that moment. Marsh swung.

Pewter and iron suddenly flared to life within Elend. He didn’t have time to think about the oddity;

If Preservation does not need metals for his power to be used by those the shard wishes, and Ruin cannot stop those from using his power, so long as they are "Ruining", then why do you think metals are Exclusively "Required" for Hemalurgy.  Alot of this seems to be because of a theory that the planets are intrinsic to the shards powers.  If they were, how was Scandrial created?  The Shards do not need focuses.  Hemalurgy can use any focus that another Shard uses as Ruin has no filter, no discrimination.  Rich, poor, light-eyes, dark-eyes, the mighty works of man, the humblest farmer's field, Scaa, or Nobleman.  All can fall to Ruin at anytime, and all will eventually.  There is too much ink on the paper in the books that support this being a possibility (not a certainty, a possibility), to just sit back and say "Nope it is impossible"

This is the nature of Ruin as I see it, Ruin can use any of the shards powers via any of the focuses on any of the planets, so long as it is at a loss (That is Ruin's Focus).  I can break a Vase with a Rock, a Hammer, or a Stick.  I can wear it away with abrading Sand, water, or Air.  You said I am confusing a Natural Process with a shard's power... How does Brandon describe the Shards, both in the Cosmere and in his WoBs?  Shards are described as Forces of their Nature.  How do you kill hatred?  The Natural Process of all things taking the path of Atrophy towards the destination of Entropy is the purpose of Ruin.  It happens everywhere, you say that makes it irrelevant to this discussion, but I claim the opposite, it is proof that Ruins power is available everywhere, and with the Knowledge and Intent you too can harness this power to make your neighborhood less than it was before.  I understand you see it as Ruin being very much like Preservation (similar but diametric opposites) and being on the same planet they would share so much more.  Ruin's Focus is loss, he can have no other focus, it would go against his nature..  (Yes, I know, Brandon said Ruin is more an opposite match for Cultivation.  Growth and Decay.)

Edited July 25, 2017 by Hawkido

[+Extesian]

Hemalurgy is not Ruin's invention. It is a natural product of the interaction of the Shards and the planet they created. It did not exist before Scadrial was created.

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KAIMIPONO

On a broader level, is hemalurgyofficially dead, then? Or is it still extant in some Ruin-free (but still messy) form? (If it's gone, is there any imbalance since Preservation's magic power is kept and Ruin's isn't?)

BRANDON SANDERSON

Is Hemalurgy dead? No, not at all. It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it. It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works.

 The focus on Scadrial is metal. That's why it makes sense that only metals can be used. Being able to use it anywhere is because it's end-positive, you draw three investiture from Ruin, whose power is located in the spiritual realm, which is not location specific. But the focus is of Scadrial because that's where the magic originated. 

That said, I'm extremely surprised i can find nothing saying it MUST be metal. So it could be possible to use a spike that isn't metal. It just doesn't make realmatic sense, from what we know of focuses, to be able to. 

Edit - @Calderis sorry, I just saw your earlier post. You're right, if a Cognitive Shadow is investiture in the Cognitive Realm infusing someone's 'mind' (no time to find the WoB but it then does use the word 'soul' after), how does that make sense if Divine Breath is in the spiritual realm? My guess is that the Divine Breath does both things we've discussed, providing the actual Divine Breath you can give away, and creating the Cognitive Shadow itself, but provides investiture for each in separate realms. Ie Returning involves Endowment giving investiture that both infuses your Cognitive Aspect and melds investiture into your spiritweb. Then when you give away three Divine Breath, it takes that investiture from both realms. Maybe that's tenuous, now I read it, but I see no reason it can't be the case. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Extesian
forgot about dre. I mean, Calderis

[Hawkido]

1 hour ago, Extesian said:

Hemalurgy is not Ruin's invention. It is a natural product of the interaction of the Shards and the planet they created. It did not exist before Scadrial was created.

 The focus on Scadrial is metal. That's why it makes sense that only metals can be used. Being able to use it anywhere is because it's end-positive, you draw three investiture from Ruin, whose power is located in the spiritual realm, which is not location specific. But the focus is of Scadrial because that's where the magic originated. 

That said, I'm extremely surprised i can find nothing saying it MUST be metal. So it could be possible to use a spike that isn't metal. It just doesn't make realmatic sense, from what we know of focuses, to be able to. 

That is a good WoB.  I haven't seen that one before, there are a bunch and finding them all is tough.  That A, F, and H were a product of the Shards and the planet reacting to each other.  But I still hold that Hemalurgy doesn't have a focus other than Loss.  That is what is required (repeatedly stated over and over every time a Hemalurgic artifact is created) there must be loss.  The fact it is using a metal is (as I see it) because it is stealing a power that uses a metal as a focus.   However, that last is what I am focusing on.  It shouldn't be that hard to find an exclusive statement that Hemalurgy requires a metal, but the exclusive statement is not there.

*edit*  Well all of the minutia of the hemalurgy aside.  Back to the discussion of other uses of Hemalurgy:  on Nalthis, forced awakening someone via hemalurgic process would be one and it would be a tactic that Ruin's Nature would approve of.

Roshar and Sel have already been discussed.  Other purposes for Hemalurgy?  Things to be stolen... Perfect Pitch? I guess one hemalurgic process per heightening, can you skip a heightening, cherry picking just the heightenings you want or would you have to build up, as it seems most everyone would just go for the tenth.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Hawkido

[Oversleep]

@Hawkido by your logic, Allomancy does not require metals, only that the user's power is Preserved.

This is faulty logic, as the Shard's Intent relates to how power is gained.

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The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.
source

It only means that in alternate universe, where Ruin ended somewhere else, his magic would still require loss of power and Preservation's magic would still be end-positive. That quality is unrelated to what the magic actually does.

On Roshar you still need metals to access Allomancy - not some kind of spren, or bond, or Oath (or whatever Roshar's focus is) - then why should Hemalurgy unexpectedly use another focus?

[Agent34]

@Hawkido How does Hoid being able to use non-Scadrian metals for Allomancy come into play? The ability a metal provides isn't dependent on the planet it comes from. As for Vasher, a Returned is like Nightblood in that they don't need a specific type of Investiture and will consume any kind.

[Calderis]

@Hawkido we've been through this dance before on other topics, so I'll make the argument I'm about to, and then I agree to disagree. I'm not gonna keep arguing this. 

You're, probably unintentionally, using the word focus in two separate ways. One for other magic systems, and one for hemalurgy, and that's the problem. 

In the Cosmere, a magical focus is the medium through which an effect is achieved and is tied to the planet of the magic's creation. 

For Ruin you are trying to use a part of the intent of the Shard as the focus, when it is a mechanism of the magic. It is an outcome, or a side effect. Much like color and Awakening. The focus on Nalthis is commands. The intent envisioned by the awakener is the medium through which an Awakening functions, and the color drain is a separate requirement.

Hemalurgy has a focus, like every magic in the Cosmere. 

Yes, this has been repeatedly RAFO'd. That means absolutely nothing. RAFO don't mean "this is a big secret" they mean "I'm not ready to answer that yet because it won't come up for a long time and you guys need things to talk about." 

So like I've said from the beginning. Until it is proven otherwise, I will continue to believe that Hemalurgy requires metal spikes, because that is what the EVIDENCE points towards in the Cosmere. Brandon refusing to answer a question is not evidence in either direction. 

[AbsentKeeper]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

For Ruin you are trying to use a part of the intent of the Shard as the focus, when it is a mechanism of the magic. It is an outcome, or a side effect. Much like color and Awakening. The focus on Nalthis is commands. The intent envisioned by the awakener is the medium through which an Awakening functions, and the color drain is a separate requirement.

Hemalurgy has a focus, like every magic in the Cosmere. 

You're talking yourself into circles here, first saying that he is confusing focus and intent, and then doing it yourself. The color is the focus on Nalthis, made from dyes from the flowers of Edgli, and providing a conduit for the power of endowment (the breaths) to pass from one place to another.

Hemalurgy should be the same way, it doesn't violate all of the realmatic laws that we know of for hemalurgy to use the proper kind of focus for the type of investiture it is manipulating. In fact it makes more sense this way, because otherwise, how would a metal spike match the proper spiritual pathways to draw power from any source except the two powers that already have metal as the focus.

Think about it this way, there were at least two metals in the time of the final empire that TLR either didn't know about, or didn't have the technology to make, even though he did know. This means that these metals did not exist in any physical form on the planet at the time hemalurgy came to be, and so it can follow that the spiritual conduit inside these materials is a naturally occuring one that simply matches the power coming from preservation and ruin.

As has already been stated, hemalurgy is just about stealing investiture, and we've been shown that investiture is mostly universal. I don't see why its so much of a leap that hemalurgy would need a different focus to interact with another type of investiture. For example, if there were naturally occurring surgebinders on scadrial, would you then be able to make a gemstone spike to steal their powers, just because they live there?  There is already investiture, and (presumably) there are already gemstone in the planets crust on scadrial, we just haven't seen this capability because theres nothing on scadrial for them to steal by making a gemstone spike.

 

I guess its just not clicking in my head why the planet the shard chose to settle on matters in the slightest.

[Calderis]

@Cowmanthethird

No, I'll try to find the post, but it is confirmed directly from Brandon to @Chaos that the focus on Nalthis is command. The color drain is a side effect, but the focus by which the magic is enacted is the command given. Just as the molecular structure of the metal is what determines the power expressed in Allomancy and Feruchemy (and by extension of Feruchemy, hemalurgy should apply here as well as it developed on the same planet, and system from the planet using the Shard that governs Hemalurgy already uses that focus).

Just because they didn't have the means to create the metals necessary for certain allomantic powers, does not mean the powers did not exist. 

The focuses we know are Metal for Scadrial, commands for Nalthis, forms for Sel (writing forms for most, thus expresses itself as movement forms in the martial art of ChayShan), and Roshar is not known, but the biggest camps are Spren, or Bonds.

The focus is determined by the planet that the magic system develops on. 

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Calderis

[AbsentKeeper]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:The focus is determined by the planet that the magic system develops on. 

 

The focus is determined by the planet that the magic system develops on. 

I guess this is the part that I don't agree with. What does scadrial have to do with metal, or Nalthis have to do commands? Nothing at all, except thier magic. There is metal on every shardworld, and any of that metal can be use for allomancy, in the right alloys. Humans give commands everywhere, but objects can't only be awakened on Nathis, thats just the only place there's breath to do it.

The way I see it, the focuses are an extension of the shard that powers them, and of these, only Aeon Dor is inherently linked to a single planet. Preservation and Ruin created Scadrial from scratch so they made a planet with lots of metals. Doesn't mean that they couldn't have picked an existing planet and still had allomamcy fueled by the same metals somewhere else, if they had wanted to.

[Calderis]

@Cowmanthethird I'm trying and failing to find the WoBs that I want, but I know that this information comes directly from Brandon. The focus is a product of the planet itself. 

@Oversleep, @Extesian (I'd ping The One Who Connects to, but mobile won't let me) any help here? I'm stuck. 

[AbsentKeeper]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Cowmanthethird I'm trying and failing to find the WoBs that I want, but I know that this information comes directly from Brandon. The focus is a product of the planet itself. 

@Oversleep, @Extesian (I'd ping The One Who Connects to, but mobile won't let me) any help here? I'm stuck. 

If Brandon said so, ill have to accept it, but I always saw it as more of a correlation than a causation. Like, shards just went where there was a lot of suitable material to use as their focus, or made a place that had it.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

6 hours ago, Extesian said:

Edit - @Calderis sorry, I just saw your earlier post. You're right, if a Cognitive Shadow is investiture in the Cognitive Realm infusing someone's 'mind' (no time to find the WoB but it then does use the word 'soul' after), how does that make sense if Divine Breath is in the spiritual realm? My guess is that the Divine Breath does both things we've discussed, providing the actual Divine Breath you can give away, and creating the Cognitive Shadow itself, but provides investiture for each in separate realms. Ie Returning involves Endowment giving investiture that both infuses your Cognitive Aspect and melds investiture into your spiritweb. Then when you give away three Divine Breath, it takes that investiture from both realms. Maybe that's tenuous, now I read it, but I see no reason it can't be the case. 

I'd always thought of it as a similar process to Keliser's survival. The when the "Returned" died the first time, they were met by Endownment, like Preservation did to people who died on Scadrial, before he died. Similarly to Kelsier, they needed something (probably investiture based) to anchor them as Cognitive Shadows, and that was the Divine Breath. The Divine breath was designed by Endownment to reconnect them with their body, and morphed it into a returned body. The reason a breath is required every week is that keeping the connection to their body, as well as holding the properties of the returned's body state, (or maybe only one of those two factors) requires a stream of investiture. The weekly breaths provide it. If the breaths were missing, then it would start drawing on the Divine Breath, which barely has enough investiture to keep them in them connected to their body, and thus the connection from their body to their shadow would be severed, thus another death. At this point I'm not sure if they would stay Cognitive Shadows, or if they would continue to the Beyond. If they would stay Cognitive Shadows, then it might explain why people decide not to become Returned. Once you go down that path, you might never make it to the Beyond. You might be stuck as a Shadow forever.

[Calderis]

@Lord Maelstrom TLR and Ati show differently. One was a Sliver, and the other died as a Vessel. Both held enough investiture that status as a Cognitive Shadow was guaranteed, and both immediately chose to go beyond. 

Cognitive Shadows appear to be anchored in a way that they aren't forced to go beyond, as a normal person is, but nothing is actually prohibiting them from doing so. 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Lord Maelstrom TLR and Ati show differently. One was a Sliver, and the other died as a Vessel. Both held enough investiture that status as a Cognitive Shadow was guaranteed, and both immediately chose to go beyond. 

Cognitive Shadows appear to be anchored in a way that they aren't forced to go beyond, as a normal person is, but nothing is actually prohibiting them from doing so. 

Thank you. I guess that removes the last two lines of my argument. Does the rest make sense though?

[Spoolofwhool]

An argument for hemalurgy's focus being metal, and not it using the focus of the magic system that's being stolen: You still use metal when stealing attributes like physical strength, intelligence, etc, things which don't require a focus and are not of allomancy or feruchemy. 

[Hawkido]

7 hours ago, Oversleep said:

@Hawkido by your logic, Allomancy does not require metals, only that the user's power is Preserved.

This is faulty logic, as the Shard's Intent relates to how power is gained.

It only means that in alternate universe, where Ruin ended somewhere else, his magic would still require loss of power and Preservation's magic would still be end-positive. That quality is unrelated to what the magic actually does.

On Roshar you still need metals to access Allomancy - not some kind of spren, or bond, or Oath (or whatever Roshar's focus is) - then why should Hemalurgy unexpectedly use another focus?

While I can almost see what you and @Calderis are trying to say, but not quite.  Ruin's power will be a mirror to any power out there... not quite as bright (there is a loss) and somehow inverted, but otherwise a reflection, You won't be able to go to Nalthis and spike Steel pushing out of someone, because there are no CoinShots there (barring immigrants) and if there were you WOULD need a metal spike to steal the power as you are stealing an Allomantic ability. Brandon stated that he started running out of ways to track stealing different abilities with the 16 metals, he had to switch to placement as well and allomantic metal type.  This limitation alone points toward Brandon using different materials in different spheres of influence. it fits Ruin, and it makes sense.  The Quote from Brandon has a very interesting bit of Grammar in it.  Notice that Hemalurgy's Creation is an on-going process.  And Brandon is right, very few people are looking at this from this perspective.

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Is Hemalurgy dead? No, not at all. It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it. It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works.

 I prefer my way of looking at this, as it is not the "Obvious Joke" as Hoid would put it.  Novelty, doing not what is expected.  Flying is not defying gravity, as many have believed, but actually obeying gravity on a deeper more thoroughly understood level.  Brandon has been very careful not to box himself in and say that hemalurgy can only use Metal spikes.  Very careful indeed.  He has shared how difficult it was just getting Allomancy and Feruchemy plus Koloss and Kandra in the spike charts, as each sense, and ability stolen would require a different combination of metal used and placement on the body.

Hemalurgy: not quite as bright and somehow inverted.  Probably describes me pretty good as well, but a differing viewpoint is always needed, but rarely wanted.

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PETER AHLSTROM

Uh-huh. That was already noticed by theorizers in the forums here. Gold works like Malatium and Electrum works like Atium. Yet they're on opposite corners of the metal square.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Ah. I wondered if that had been noticed.

Actually they are inverted in function as well.  These metals should be on a different chart that is a reflection of the allomantic metals chart.  Atium alloys reflect/invert abilities, Lerasium alloys grant abilities.  Gold shows your past alternatives and Malatium shows you someone else's past alternatives.  Atium shows you what someone else is going to do, and Electrum shows someone else what you could do.  Again this is what ruin does, inverting and reflecting.  We will begin to see this inversion on other planets once Hemalurgy begins playing there.  We might be seeing it already.  And it might be stated that the above is Allomancy not hemalurgy... yeah but it is allomancy using Ruin's GodMetal.  So It will take on the characteristics of Ruin's power.

Ruin's significant number is 1.  Preservation's Significant number is 16.  Ruin's god metal yields 16 reflected Allomantic powers when alloyed and 1 single power by itself, Steals 16 Allomantic powers, and steals 16 Feruchemy powers, and allows 1 thing when stored in it we don't know about atium-alloyed metalminds.  If you keep breaking down an integer you will end up with 1, which is the only number that would make sense for the shard whose purpose is to break things down.

 

@Spoolofwhool  Brandon Stated that stealing human attributes from humans was actually stealing Preservations power that he invest in the humans during creation.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Hawkido

[Steeldancer]

I would spike a shark or a platypus to gain its electric sense. then i would store than using a tinmind. yay! 

I would spike all sorts of animals in order to gain their weird senses and abilities. The strength of an ant! The heat sense of a snake! the ultraviolet vision of a bee! (although i honestly have no idea how to spike a bee. I assume it might be hard.)

[Hawkido]

2 minutes ago, The Flash said:

I would spike a shark or a platypus to gain its electric sense. then i would store than using a tinmind. yay! 

I would spike all sorts of animals in order to gain their weird senses and abilities. The strength of an ant! The heat sense of a snake! the ultraviolet vision of a bee! (although i honestly have no idea how to spike a bee. I assume it might be hard.)

Assuming a shard had invested their power in those animals it would be possible, The Bee Spike would have to BEE small... LOL.  Do bees have proper blood or are they just filled with the bug ichor?  I'll have to watch the next time one hits my windshield at speed.  Spike a fly to get its reflexes.  Seriously you would need a tiny spike.

[Steeldancer]

Just now, Hawkido said:

Assuming a shard had invested their power in those animals it would be possible, The Bee Spike would have to BEE small... LOL.  Do bees have proper blood or are they just filled with the bug ichor?  I'll have to watch the next time one hits my windshield at speed.  Spike a fly to get its reflexes.  Seriously you would need a tiny spike.

well they have life force that can be spiked. I would have to use a needle. A hemalurgic needle lol

[Calderis]

@Hawkido we don't have confirmation on the material, but the method in which it functions is the same 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977#120

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ODIUM'S_SHARD

Lastly, less pressingly, do Spirit Points (hemalurgic spots) apply to ever magic system, and through the Cosmere at large? Ie. could Hemalurgy be used to take any other magic systems aspects, and do other magic systems also have these 'Points', such as Body Focuses, that work in similar ways?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hemalurgy crosses magic systems. You could steal things from people on other worlds, if you knew the right places for the spikes.

So even on another world, it still relies on spikes and bind points. 

To your assertion that Hemalurgy relies on the number 1, which is speculation

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1108#30

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KYTHIS

Unknown question.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hemalurgy-when you spike, you place the spike in a place that determines which charge the spike gets. Q: Through the heart seems to pick up universally. A: It depends on where in the heart. It's like acupuncture. This is designed from acupuncture and you get very specific on which nerves you're hitting and things like that Q: So the spike will never pick up more than one power. A: Not the way they know how to do it.

The limit of one power per spike is due to the method of spiking as it is used now, not the magic itself.