Jump to content

TWD - Chapter 2 - kais 07/24/17 4545 words


kais

Recommended Posts

Sorry all, I swear we won’t be going back through too many of these early chapters. Just enough to make sure the new stuff I put in is working right.

Chapter two, again. I cut a huge part of it out from last time you all read, I think, and did some tweaking to the rudder master. If you have the time to pick it apart, I would appreciate it. Thank you! Destroy at will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thoughts: S starts of the chapter incredibly defensive and withdrawn. This indicates really strong verbal abuse (like ostracizing), but the text isn’t as clear. The sole taunt is in regard to ‘running out of bones’, which isn’t as harsh as S’s reactions suggest.

The river is infested with piranhas, anacondas, and alligators. That’s a lot of predators. Also, the boat captain missed a helpful tip. Never dip your fingers in gator-infested water. They will mistaken it for fish and will bite your fingers clean off. T’s reason for dunking S is never really explained, the only explanation I can cobble together being that T thinks it will label S as a non-guild member. Side note, baling out the boat is mentioned, but the reason why the boat is taking on water is never fully mentioned.

As far as worldbuilding is concerned: Hints keep cropping up that this society is on the cusp of the industrial revolution. This being the case, guilds are going to become endangered, if not extinct. This makes for an exciting backdrop. I’m looking forward to see how this develops.

Further comment: You keep having S correlate the two parts of ‘Woodcutter’ and ‘Daughter’. One is the issue of S’s mother’s legacy, the other being the issue S’s phenotype. I do understand that the lineage is matrimonial in this society, but they are separate issues, as evidenced by the fact that S dealing with being a Woodcutter while rejecting the ‘Daughter’ aspect would make a strong plot, as would S accepting the Daughter but rejecting the Woodcutter. Your plot has S rejecting both, but it’d be nice to see S deal with each one separately.

S’s character is more fleshed out in this version than the previous. I’m given a  much better insight into S’s motivations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This reads much smoother than before. I don't feel like I'm missing anything you cut. There's a lot more connection with S and Thuja, and the woodcutter's guild. You've described it well enough that now I'm not sure this promise got addressed in the version I read. Do we find out why the guild hall was cleared out and why? Was there a plot to remove the woodcutter's guild specifically from Sorpsi?


pg 2: bale -> bail

pg 2: "the way she sat, hunched over and grunting, gave me the strength to lift my head up."
--why? 

pg 3: "Woodcutter’s Daughter."
--would S misgender S's self this way, even internally? S goes into the explanation next paragraph, so could probably take the first instance out.

pg 3: "Pray the ruddermaster holds. Increased traffic has had her up for the past two days. "
--this works better.

pg 3: Should "Ruddermaster" be capitalized here? It isn't anywhere else.

pg 3: Even through - Even though

pg 5: The conversation with Talia is much better.

pg 7: "Neither was my late husband. It’d be endearing if you didn’t smell like fish.”
--Lol

pg 11: Water frame? Had to look this one up. It's odd enough you could put in a couple words about how it's a strange new mechanical invention. People in Thuja wouldn't know what it was either.

pg 12: "This is the first time it’s come due since Queen Iana took the throne."
--Huh. That's a long treaty. 70+ years?, I'd guess?

pg 13: "dwarfed both in size and stature from the others"
--by the others?

pg 14: much better with the memories about the woodcutter's hall
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I go:

Pg. 5: "although she one of the few..." although she was one of the few...

Pg. 5: "I could bare to speak to" I could bear to speak to...

Pg. 11: "Closer to the plaza now the road was cobblestone" Not sure if 'now' is necessary. If it is, there should probably be a comma after it.

 

Overall:

Really good. I like how you're contrasting a nation and an individual struggling to maintain their self-identity in the face of external pressure. Compelling stuff. S is well characterized, and I'm empathizing with her struggles. Right now, my biggest concern is that although it makes sense for S to seek out both their mother and the queen, I worry that  the means by which they'll be able to will feel contrived. There's an entire country looking for the queen. Why will S be the one to find her?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that your resolution will feel forced, just that it has the potential to. You've set up some very interesting dramatic questions, and its very easy to resolve those sorts of things with a deus ex machina.

Finally, a bit of a personal request. You say that you aren't going to go back through too many of the early chapters. When you're done posting those, could you send me the rest of the story? I've gotten invested in these characters and this world, and I want to see how it all turns out! Thanks!

~PN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- It seems a little weird such prejudices against magic exist in this world, given that the (fake) Queensguard openly approached her last chapter. This might require some explanation?

- I like the captain's proclamation about alligators, but would alligators really be a problem for a boat that size?

- It feels a bit like information overload with news of Sorin's mother and the Queen. This revelation might need to be spaced out a bit.

- Overall, I like the rest of the chapter. The description is strong, and the chapter moves a clipped pace. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good chapter, I really like the world-building you’re doing here as well as S.’s anxiety. It makes for an emotional read through what otherwise would simply be getting from point A to point B.

Some additional thoughts as I was reading:

Itching: At the start of the chapter the remarks by the other passengers make S.’s skin itch, so S. clamps hands to avoid scratching. Yet in the next sentence S. rubs her (his? What pronoun do you prefer for S.?) hands over her face furiously. One, that’s pretty close to scratching. Two, I think rubbing your face furiously is a clear indication you’re upset about something. It doesn’t really show control or detachment, which is what S. really wants to achieve.

 

Ostracized: The comments towards S. that you show the reader are “Witch”, and “Did you run out of bones”, which seem pretty mild compared to the reaction S. is having. Granted, S. had to suffer through such abuse before and that accumulates over time into a harsher reaction on S.’s side than the individual remarks qualify for, but for the sake of clarity and upping the tension maybe you could show more harsh comments or actions towards S..

 

Boat: The boat…I have some issues with the boat.

  1. At the start of the chapter you say the boat is a long canoe, but I’m having a hard time picturing it. I keep thinking the boat has to be larger. Maybe it’s because it was described as heavy with passengers, or the presence of an awning, or that people can easily sit next to each other, or maybe because it has both a captain and a ‘ruddermaster’. I don’t know. It doesn’t feel like a canoe.
  2. Why is the boat taking on water, and why the hell is it even going to make the four hour (!) journey if it’s already necessary to bail while people are embarking? That seems highly irresponsible for a guild-run boat in a time where guilds are being threatened by more advanced technologies.
  3. How much trouble can a decent size canoe be in from alligators? So why can’t the people pee over the railing or something? Since the captain explicitly tells them they are not allowed to do it, I infer from that that they are physically capable of doing it without tipping the boat. Failing that, a bucket on board for people to pee in? It’s a four hour journey after all.
  4.  The boat is filled with people, yet one woman easily pushed it off from the shoreline.  
  5. What’s propelling this boat? It’s not the ruddermaster, since rudders are the steering mechanism and not propulsion. Is there a sail? Is there a crew rowing? Are the passengers rowing? Are they using currents, and if so, how does the canoe then take on passengers to go the other way?
  6. Are they crossing a river or following along a river, or crossing a lake? I didn’t find any mentions of what they were crossing in this chapter. I had to look up that it was a lake in the last chapter. Now that probably isn’t an issue when you’re reading the finished work, so it could just be weekly reader syndrome.

So yeah, questions.

 

Dunking: I didn’t get why S. had to be dunked in the water. The checks were happening at disembarking, which S. slept through. There weren’t any for-hires on the boat when the ruddermaster threw S. overboard and walking around wet would only draw more attention to S. later. Also, why would a ‘friend’ dunk a friend in alligator, piranha and anaconda infested waters? Is the ruddermaster trying to lose her job or something?

 

For-hires: Apparently people are accosted by the for-hires when they embark or disembark the boats, yet S. can disembark and leave the area without anyone even so much as addressing her. Even if S. missed the first inspection by being dunked (how long was S. under the water again? Because I’ve seen ‘custom’ inspections and they are never over in the time you can hold your breath) someone should still have seen S. leave the boat.

Also, when S. leaves the docks it is in a panicking state, still soaking wet, shivering, running, and yet aside from some people looking at S. funny and looking back to see where the trouble was, S. didn’t get spotted by any authority figures, or the hirelings.

 

Journeys: Journeymen?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this is my third or fourth time through this chapter, and while it keeps getting better overall, I think now it's becoming a victim of too many inserts, especially the early parts. I keep seeing passages that don't quite line up logically within the paragraph, old bits that stand out in tone to me, new bits that are repetitive or slightly contradictory of old ones just a few lines removed from them.  I think it just needs a pass or two to sand down the rough edges a bit.

 
S seems fixated on their hands in the boat. In the span of about a page, they are clamped, scrubbing, baling, wrapped around shoulders and clasped to ears. Is S supposed to be this fidgety? 
 
The new bit with the ruddermaster is very good! I like that she finally gets a name, and doesn't have to pretend not to recognize S anymore.;) But I'd've really liked it if we'd gotten the name when we first met her. It feels a little repetitive as-is.
 
I thought the ruddermaster and S were facing each other? But in this new bit it seems like they might not be? 
 
Honestly, I agree with   @Asmodemon re the boat. It's still  fairly difficult to picture. Remember not everyone's had actual experience to know the whys and wherefores of actual leaky rainforest boats on snake-infested gigantic rivers to be able to fill in the details when something is mentioned. 
 
I also agree with @Asmodemon re the dunking as well. It makes less sense now that the rest of the stuff surrounding it makes more, if that's understandable. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m fine reading these early chapters again. My memory is so bad that I barely remember ‘any’ of it!

  • “but there was still covered laughter” – me no like this, I read it as ‘covert’ first time; I feel that it wants to be ‘covert’. It’s a long old sentence too. I paused for a sit-down after murmuring.
  • “my body had betrayed me” – I think we’ve managed to establish by now that I'm a heathen and an old dog, slow to pick up the finer points of many things, including non-binary sexuality and physiology. A penny just dropped here for me, and it was the word ‘betrayal’ that did it. I joke about my memory, but it does tend to retain small details (at the expense of large ones, usually) – I'm sure the word ‘betrayal’ was there in the first version. So, the embarrassingly slow realisation (since first submission in February) is that a young child, up to a certain age looks, to all intents and purposes, the same ‘up top’, and therefore is ‘defined’ by what they have ‘down below’. Hence, an ‘unexpected’ change up top could be seen as a betrayal.
  • “I didn’t need to rationalize the distinction to anyone, much less certainly not to taunting villagers on a drowning boat” – I don’t think the phrasing is right here. I think ‘much less’ would follow rationalising the distinction to one person, but where the first reference is to a bigger group, which includes the second group, I think you need a different qualifier.
  • “I’d been ignored them” – typo.
  • “any chance I might have had to do be otherwise” – S is thinking about ‘being’ TWD and so would ‘be’ otherwise, rather than ‘do’, surely.
  • “It was a stupid title, and not properly descriptive at all, and I hated it” – repetition.
  • I’m confused about the size of the vessel. My impression is of it being small, because of how quickly S got in and seated, and that fact that it has what I think is a canvas awning, which I don’t think would be very wide. The fact that the boat has a captain, and is not just ‘captained’ by the ruddermaster surprised me enough that I thought they were the same and there was a gender mistake. Need blocking on the size of the boat.
  • “Even through I sat right next to her” – typo.
  • “the man rebutted to his partner” – imho.
  • “although her feet did not slow on the paddles” – yeah, if there’s only one person propelling this boat, there is no way it’s big enough to need a separate captain. It just couldn’t hold enough people, I think.
  • I was disoriented as to the reason that S was dunked, but I guess it’s explained, I'm fine with that. Daft question. I can see piranha lurking around a dock; lots of scraps, I guess. But would an anaconda with all those people around?
  • Bottom of Page 8, personally, I'm much happier with the level of overt ‘explanation’ as to S’s gender. No doubt in part it’s due to my being more educated since February, but I think you’ve insert more as well, and I think it will work much better for first-time readers.
  • Never heard of a mangosteen; that’s my education for today! Thank you.
  • Lieutenant Pedant to the rescue!! “smoked meat on wood sticks” – surely, all sticks are wooden by default, therefore, the word ‘wood’ is redundant.
  • pressed myself into the side of a brick building” – Perhaps because I’ve just been watching Luke Cage, this sounds literal, and therefore weird.
  • “wasn’t enough to get me even a new binding” – really? I’ve always thought of the binding as just a strip of cotton cloth, maybe 8/10 feet long, so it goes around, what, 3/4 times? Almost like a big bandage. Would that really cost all that much? I’ve always thought of it as kind of a ‘scrap’ of cloth, unworked in any way.
  • “The normal din to the capital was louder than normal” – typo, right?
  • “I let my mind wander to the crowds of alchemists” – ?
  • Oh, I see that they are actually in front of S, these alchemists. That’s a blocking issue for me. They seemed to just appears from nowhere. S pushed off the wall then started walking then S is looking at the alchemists in front of the palace. There was no time between starting to walk and being right there. I need some walking time there, or some sense of arrival at the palace. That must be an impressive building, and I think S would feel something when the alchemists came into view.
  • “I could see the city center clearly” – I would like something more here. Is the city centre a wide-open plaza; formal square; fountains; plant beds; trees? I'm thinking it must be an impressive place. I need something to picture it. The palace wasn’t worthy of remark either, which was unusual (see above). Are there no big civic buildings in the city centre?
  • “I passed two well-lit stores” – Ah, is it dark? I was picturing daylight by default. I thought we left in the morning and it was a 4-hour trip? I may be mis-remembering, but a reminder or two along the way to update the atmosphereic conditions would be helpful.
  • “We weren’t exactly the same, he and I” – I'm not quite getting this but I'm hearing that this ‘guy’ might be non-binary? But then S refers to ‘he’, so then I'm thinking moobs, but S still identifies with him? I'm not clear, and I don’t think he’ll be around long enough.
  • “I’m sure you can infer what no attendance her absence would mean” – Awkward, suggest this.
  • “I would lose my only means of self-defense” – I feel that maybe ‘self’ is redundant?
  • This one should earn Lieutenant Pedant a promotion. “I stepped down from the footpath” – in highway engineering terms, in the UK certainly, a footpath is a formal pedestrian route that is not contiguous with and does not parallel a highway. A formal pedestrian route directly abutting the highway is a footway. I suppose, North Americans would refer to it a sidewalk? I’d need to check the AASHTO guidance for the official nomenclature in North America. (This ain’t trees; you’re in my house now ;)
  • “the plaza housed all of the guildhalls” – sense of scale and of place required, I think.
  • “it was a nice relief” – not a great word, not precise or clear in meaning.
  • “dwarfed both in size and stature from by the others”
  • “In the room just past had been an eating area” – Eh? Is there a word missing?
  • “Had other guilds had suffered”
  • “the man had spoken about—what about it?” – awkward.
  • “What manner of machinery would cause that? Would it be machinery, to make a guildhall this clean?” – confusing. It seems to me that the first sentence compares this hall with the clothes shop that was closed down because of a cheaper method used elsewhere, i.e. by competition, but not physically/literally, but the second sentence considers whether another method was directly responsible for cleaning out this hall, physically. These things are not directly comparable, it seems to me.
  • “on the warmed dirt” – seems to me warmed begs the question, ‘By what?’, which is unnecessary.
  • “more comforting in sleep than it ever had been in life” – comparing sleep with life sounds awkward, it sounds like it should be compared with waking.

I found this chapter better than the previous version, from what I can remember. It starts to open up the plot, and has enough tension that it is not boring. I’m happy with this, and look forward to further development in the next one.

<R>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/25/2017 at 5:52 AM, aeromancer said:

T’s reason for dunking S is never really explained,

Argh, yes. A number of people commented on this. During my last round of edits it would seem some things got lost in translation. Will fix.

On 7/25/2017 at 5:52 AM, aeromancer said:

but the reason why the boat is taking on water is never fully mentioned.

It was just supposed to be a bit of color but if it is tripping people up it can be removed easily enough

On 7/25/2017 at 5:52 AM, aeromancer said:

Hints keep cropping up that this society is on the cusp of the industrial revolution.

Woo! Glad this is coming through!

On 7/25/2017 at 5:52 AM, aeromancer said:

but it’d be nice to see S deal with each one separately.

Hrm. Ponderable. I'll think on this one

On 7/25/2017 at 5:52 AM, aeromancer said:

S’s character is more fleshed out in this version than the previous. I’m given a  much better insight into S’s motivations.

Wonderful! I'm on the right track then. Thank you for the feedback!

 

On 7/25/2017 at 6:22 AM, Mandamon said:

take the first instance out

I ended up taking the second one out. Flowed much better. Good catch!

On 7/25/2017 at 6:22 AM, Mandamon said:

The conversation with Talia is much better.

Yay! And she gets to have a name again!

On 7/25/2017 at 6:22 AM, Mandamon said:

It's odd enough you could put in a couple words about how it's a strange new mechanical invention. People in Thuja wouldn't know what it was either.

Fair!

Hoorah! Thank you for the feedback. So glad its working better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/25/2017 at 8:19 AM, Paracosmic_nomenclator said:

Right now, my biggest concern is that although it makes sense for S to seek out both their mother and the queen, I worry that  the means by which they'll be able to will feel contrived. There's an entire country looking for the queen. Why will S be the one to find her?

Solid concerns. I think the end deals with this well, but I look forward to your thoughts on it when/if we get there. 

On 7/25/2017 at 8:19 AM, Paracosmic_nomenclator said:

When you're done posting those, could you send me the rest of the story? I've gotten invested in these characters and this world, and I want to see how it all turns out! Thanks!

For sure! This next week I'll do a new interlude that I've just added (so, new to everyone), then probably will jump ahead a few chapters. Do you want me to send you the ones inbetween, or just the whole working document? Thank you for the comments!

 

On 7/25/2017 at 5:05 PM, rdpulfer said:

It seems a little weird such prejudices against magic exist in this world, given that the (fake) Queensguard openly approached her last chapter. This might require some explanation?

 

Was it not clear enough that a lot of those were S's personal biases? Hrm. Might need to think on this one.

On 7/25/2017 at 5:05 PM, rdpulfer said:

but would alligators really be a problem for a boat that size?

Only if people fall overboard!

On 7/25/2017 at 5:05 PM, rdpulfer said:

This revelation might need to be spaced out a bit.

Could I ask you to revisit this thought in two chapters, when we get more information? The two issues are tied directly together, so it's important they are discovered together, but if it isn't working, I'll need to do something about it

On 7/25/2017 at 5:05 PM, rdpulfer said:

The description is strong, and the chapter moves a clipped pace.

Yay! Thank you for the comments!

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

What pronoun do you prefer for S.

S does not use pronouns (and let me tell you, trying to write the whole book without them was a pain), but for our purposes here, 'they' is fine. 

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

It doesn’t really show control or detachment, which is what S. really wants to achieve.

So... it works in showing that S has a hard time controlling and dealing with emotions? Yes? Or is it too confusing?

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

clarity and upping the tension maybe you could show more harsh comments or actions towards S..

Ooh, I like it. Adding now.

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

It doesn’t feel like a canoe.

Okay, several people had issues with the boat. This type of boat is a real thing, that exists in numerous developing countries I have lived in. I am clearly failing at describing it. I've got a picture below. Anyone have thoughts on how I can better discuss it?

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

Why is the boat taking on water

Okay okay, I've taken this part out (but these darn things are always leaking, it seems)

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

How much trouble can a decent size canoe be in from alligators?

These things topple at the drop of a hat, so even standing up to pee can flip everyone into the water. I've added a line about this

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

The boat is filled with people, yet one woman easily pushed it off from the shoreline.

Yup. It's not too difficult with this style of boat. Suggestions on how to make it seem less weird?

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

What’s propelling this boat?

added!

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

I didn’t get why S. had to be dunked in the water.

Other people had this issue, too. I've clarified.

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

someone should still have seen S. leave the boat.

Also, when S. leaves the docks it is in a panicking state, still soaking wet, shivering, running, and yet aside from some people looking at S. funny and looking back to see where the trouble was, S. didn’t get spotted by any authority figures, or the hirelings.

Yup. I think I got this taken care of too, when I edited for why S was dunked. Thank you! These were great comments and very helpful! 

On 7/26/2017 at 8:59 AM, Asmodemon said:

Journeys: Journeymen?

Gender neutral language. :)

 

(This canoe is on the Madre De Dios river in the middle of the Peruvian Amazon, if anyone is curious. It's the boat I have to use to get to my field sites, four hours nonstop from base camp, which is 1.5 hours from the port town. River is infested with everything in the story minus the piranha, which are in the lakes (and are delicious)).

IMG_3805.JPG

Edited by kais
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, kais said:

(This canoe is on the Madre De Dios river in the middle of the Peruvian Amazon, if anyone is curious. It's the boat I have to use to get to my field sites, four hours nonstop from base camp, which is 1.5 hours from the port town. River is infested with everything in the story minus the piranha, which are in the lakes (and are delicious)).

Surely, this boat is far too small to have a captain? Also, the description conveyed to me a larger number of passengers. Something more the size of the African Queen, which it seems to me also would warrant having a captain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The canoe holds about thirty and requires both a captain (at the lead, to direct, especially for floatsam) and someone to work the motor and rudder. 

 

ETA: the Thai ones that are used for people transport can hold more than one hundred, I think, so they do come in different lengths and widths, but are always this canoe shape. Maybe 'longboat' would work better? Except that is very specifically a native design.

Edited by kais
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/27/2017 at 2:21 PM, industrialistDragon said:

Is S supposed to be this fidgety? 

Yes. Does it work, or should I have S sit on them or something?

On 7/27/2017 at 2:21 PM, industrialistDragon said:

But I'd've really liked it if we'd gotten the name when we first met her. It feels a little repetitive as-is.

That's an easy enough fix

On 7/27/2017 at 2:21 PM, industrialistDragon said:

But in this new bit it seems like they might not be? 

T is supposed to be facing away, and looking over her shoulder at S. Will try to clear up

On 7/27/2017 at 2:21 PM, industrialistDragon said:

Remember not everyone's had actual experience to know the whys and wherefores of actual leaky rainforest boats on snake-infested gigantic rivers to be able to fill in the details when something is mentioned. 

I am officially soliciting the hive mind here for help. Photo of boat above. Suggestions on how best to describe it for a primarily US audience?

On 7/27/2017 at 2:21 PM, industrialistDragon said:

re the dunking as well. It makes less sense now

Have fixed, I think. Thank you for the feedback, as always!

 

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

Hence, an ‘unexpected’ change up top could be seen as a betrayal.

Yup! :)

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

Need blocking on the size of the boat.

I put in a specific number of people, but unsure what to do after that. I refer you to the photo and beg for help!

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

But would an anaconda with all those people around?

Eh, sometimes. It's rare, but with all the piraña, if the anaconda is hungry it might go for it. It's a bit of a stretch (I only encounter them in the center of lakes, usually, and they're pretty tame, even if you kick them...heh), but I'm going to take just a smidge of creative license here

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

lmost like a big bandage. Would that really cost all that much? I’ve always thought of it as kind of a ‘scrap’ of cloth, unworked in any way.

Ah, good catch, because people unfamiliar would have no idea of the strength requirements for a binder. Have edited.

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

I need some walking time there, or some sense of arrival at the palace. That must be an impressive building, and I think S would feel something when the alchemists came into view.

Check. Editing now.

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

I would like something more here

On it!

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

Ah, is it dark?

This is me being an idiot and forgetting we are in a time before electricity. Duh

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

I'm not quite getting this but I'm hearing that this ‘guy’ might be non-binary? But then S refers to ‘he’, so then I'm thinking moobs, but S still identifies with him? I'm not clear, and I don’t think he’ll be around long enough.

There will be more on this later. It isn't meant to be super clear now unless you're 'in the community,' but our tailor friend here is a transgender male. I'm trying for a slow explanation throughout the book between the differences between being trans nonbinary and trans binary. We'll see how well that works out.

On 7/30/2017 at 2:02 AM, Robinski said:

It starts to open up the plot, and has enough tension that it is not boring.

Hoorah! Thank you for all the detail work! Looks like this chapter works for everyone, so on we go! New stuff next week!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, kais said:

Except that is very specifically a native design.

The internet is giving me either something along the lines of a "dugout-style" canoe or a "pirogue" which is apparently a sometimes flat-bottomed, small, lightweight river craft (but is associated with louisiana for people in the know), or a "long-tail boat," which sounds much cooler in thai and appears to be similar to your descriptions (?).

I'm not sure a longboat does what you want, either, since it's so easily confused with a Viking longship. (also modern longboat racing is apparently a thing in some places) (video!)

Either way, it needs more description. just leaving it at canoe only brings to mind the tiny aluminium things from summer camp, I'm thinking, and that doesn't fit with what this is. River canoe, ferry canoe, wodden-hulled passenger canoe, dugout ferry, ferry pirogue (though honestly, i only know that word from wiki, so it'll need describing at first), ferry raft, dugout raft (i know it's not a raft, but rafts come with connotation of different construction than canoes, so it might help), long-tail ferry/canoe/raft (which is fun and fantasy-seeming but would need describing because i don't think it has that many connotations associated with it)...

Be wary of riverboat, because that's got tons of Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens Mississippi River associations with it. 

It wouldn't hurt to add that the captain is directing around obstacles in the river (also a description of the river because i certainly don't think of them as having obstacles that are so hidden and so dangerous to a craft that they need a spotter to call out for them)

EDIT: Aha! I knew there was another name: pilot. On boats on the Mississippi, another broad flat river full of dangerous junk, the guy who called out snags, directed and controlled the boat was the pilot, and the dudes who sounded the depths were leadsmen

EDIT2: More links about longboat racing, because it's cool. (also long-tail boat racing which is crazy awesome scary nuts)

Also, I dug up this picture of a really long one, just for fun.   01-amazon-jungle-canoe-expedition.jpg

Edited by industrialistDragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...