kalaxin

Another Magic System on Roshar

11 posts in this topic

I noticed that in the Ars Arcanum for WoR Khriss says that her "research suggests that, indeed, there should should be another series of abilities that is even more esoteric then Voidbinding." Then continues to say she thinks it's unlikely that it's the Old Magic. Does anyone have any ideas as to what this could be?

It's important to note that as an in-univers source the Ars Arcanum shouldn't be taken as completely true so she could just be wrong but that explanation doesn't seem like a very satisfying one.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IIRC Brandon has said fabrials are a part of the 3 systems.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Agent34 said:

IIRC Brandon has said fabrials are a part of the 3 systems.

This. This this this. 

I started a whole thread just to discuss the potential of this. 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Agent34 said:

IIRC Brandon has said fabrials are a part of the 3 systems.

So I do recall this WoB; however, it seems quite clear that the author of Ars Arcanum is not talking about fabrials here. Her discription of these abilities as esoteric and her later discussion of fabrials make it unlikely that this is what she's referring to. Once again, though, she could be wrong

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, kalaxin said:

Once again, though, she could be wrong

I think this is it. Brandon has said that Fabrials are one of the 3 big systems (along with Surgebinding and Voidbinding), but Khriss likely doesn't count them as magic, but as magitech(like Medallions).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ooh, Deja Vu. You wouldn't happen to be from that thread, would you?

37 minutes ago, kalaxin said:

So I do recall this WoB; however, it seems quite clear that the author of Ars Arcanum is not talking about fabrials here. Her discription of these abilities as esoteric and her later discussion of fabrials make it unlikely that this is what she's referring to. Once again, though, she could be wrong

She has no knowledge of any specific abilities, just the expectation that there should be another set of 10 to go alongside Surgebinding and Voidbinding. What 'research' could she be referring to? I think she's obliquely referencing the number of Shards in the system: three Shards, 10 sets of magics per Shard, there should be more magics. But what she doesn't realize (at least as far as I interpret it) is that fabrials aren't just spren captured in gemstones or a mechanical form of Surgebinding; these are a completely different magic system, and at the end of the day we will learn that there are 10 fundamental kinds of fabrials. But the Ars Arcanum author is looking for abilities, and not considering that the 'mechanical' magic of fabrials is what she's looking for.

I'll go into a little more spoilery detail over here, since I actually know how to format spoilers. Spoilers for (most) released Cosmere:

Spoiler

The prototypical example for Ars Arcana being wrong is Mistborn, where the in-world popular understanding of atium as a temporal metal alongside gold was included in the Ars Arcanum. But that is false; cadmium is the actual temporal metal that fills that spot on the table. But, because of the limits of Khriss's understanding (Khriss, a character from White Sand, is the author of all the Ars Arcana, as well as the Arcanum Unbounded essays; you can catch her doing some research with Wax at New Seran in Bands of Mourning), her write-ups that are included in the first three Mistborn books are wrong.

Something that comes up in the Elantris and later Mistborn Ars Arcana (as Brandon started adding more and more character to Khriss's writings) is her acknowledgement of her limitations. In Elantris, she specifically identifies she doesn't understand why someone becomes an Elantrian. In Mistborn Era 2, she speaks of how nobody really knows how the Spiritual Feruchemical metals work (at least, until we see some of them in Bands of Mourning). Since these passages are admittedly a character in-universe talking about the magic, and not something that is 'directly' from the author, then I don't think it's unreasonable for stated suppositions to be viewed with doubt. We can ask why Khriss thinks what she does, and that can be a clue in and of itself, even if she is wrong about additional abilities existing.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure that even in her essays in Arcanum, she has errors. I will need to dig through and find the specific passage, but there are contradictions between her description of Cognitive Shadows (as pieces of Investiture that imprint on a person) and Kelsier's experiences in Secret History (where he died before interacting with the Well). It was quite jarring for me to read that essay (I think it was the Threnodite System), because of how incongruent it was with the only time we had actually seen a Cognitive Shadow's point of view. But Khriss doesn't have access to that sort of information, so she'll say something factually incorrect to the best of her abilities.

This all stems, I think, from Khriss's character. She is a scientist, and part of the scientific process is making hypotheses and then evaluating their veracity. She has made a hypothesis about additional magics on Roshar. As a scientist, she will note have a 100% success rate on these theories, so it should be by no means disingenuous for Brandon to include some faulty ideas in her documentation. It is a little odd, but Brandon does odd things sometimes in his books. (His editors have been giving him a lot of flak for some of Wax's eccentricities. Wax started thinking of he and Lessie as married after the events of Shadows of Self, even though they never actually were... I think it was to keep from forgetting her as he was getting ready to marry Steris. And in Alloy of Law, Wax's POV passages have been inconsistent with Wax and Waxillium in the narration, which is supposed to be a reflection of how Wax views of himself are changing (between lawman and noble). But his editors are like, "Brandon, that never happened, and also stop switching between his name and his nickname.")

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are soulcasters fabrials? Or are the ones used by the creepy stone-like ardents different from what Navani manufactures?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jasnah was going to have Navani repair the Davar's broken Soulcasters, right? So they are definitely similar, even if they are not exactly the same.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2017 at 11:35 AM, Pagerunner said:

he and Lessie as married after the events of Shadows of Self, even though they never actually were...

Yeah they were, it just wasn't the most "official" wedding 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, King Cole said:

Yeah they were, it just wasn't the most "official" wedding 

Brandon spoke on the subject here. There are intentional contradictions in the text based on Wax's unconsciously shifting perceptions.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assumed that she was talking about the naturally occurring spren-bonds of Roshar's native inhabitants (greatshells, skyeels, parshendi, ect.) that are used to access the surges.

I suspect that no one on Roshar, except maybe the parshendi who would be unlikely to be forthcoming with Khriss, understands how the bonds between things like skyeelss/greatshells and spren works, or even understands completely that they exist in the first place.  Khriss, as a scientist, understands that greatshells are too big to sustain life, so she correctly believes there's a magic system keeping them alive, but she doesn't understand it, and neither does anyone else, hence: esoteric magic system.  Her words seem to imply that this magic system ought to be utilized in as yet unrealized ways by the non-native inhabitants of Roshar to achieve access to Investiture.

Indeed, she appears to be correct, as evidenced by the Ryshadium.  The rules and nature of this system, and whether it is one system or many, appear to be a mystery to everyone on Roshar, which is why she had very little to say about it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.