phoenix2563 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 I found the quote. Peter did say that "I'm pretty sure that the Dawnshards were just the same as the Honorblades". Which of course tramples all over my theory. Would still like to hear it from Brandon though, especially since Peter didn't seem 100% sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wax Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 30 minutes ago, phoenix2563 said: I found the quote. Peter did say that "I'm pretty sure that the Dawnshards were just the same as the Honorblades". Which of course tramples all over my theory. Would still like to hear it from Brandon though, especially since Peter didn't seem 100% sure. Can you provide the quote? Also, would there be cultivation blades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2563 Posted July 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 It's from the link Page runner provided: 26 Botanica What are the Dawnshards? (Are they spren? Certain weapon that is crucial to defeat Odium?) Do they relate to the Dawnsingers and Dawnchant? Peter I’m pretty sure they’re just the same as the Honorblades. It says “dawn” because they were there at the beginning of when humans came to Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wax Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 On 26/07/2017 at 10:34 AM, phoenix2563 said: It's from the link Page runner provided: 26 Botanica What are the Dawnshards? (Are they spren? Certain weapon that is crucial to defeat Odium?) Do they relate to the Dawnsingers and Dawnchant? Peter I’m pretty sure they’re just the same as the Honorblades. It says “dawn” because they were there at the beginning of when humans came to Roshar. See, I am not convinced by that. In Dalinar's visions, he says it'll be tough for Dalinars without the Dawnshards. Plus, shardblade/Honorblade are blades. Dawnshard might refer to the Heralds or the highspren..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, axcellence said: See, I am not convinced by that. In Dalinar's visions, he says it'll be tough for Dalinars without the Dawnshards. Plus, shardblade/Honorblade are blades. Dawnshard might refer to the Heralds or the highspren..? I agree. Tanavast speaks of the Dawnshards as if they are gone. The Honorblades aren't gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wax Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Calderis said: I agree. Tanavast speaks of the Dawnshards as if they are gone. The Honorblades aren't gone. Quote Quotes A mythological treasure ... much like the Dawnshards or the Honorblades. Certainly worth seeking, but only with great caution.Shallan[1] Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above.from The Poem of Ista. (Jasnah's note: I have found no modern explanation of what these 'Dawnshards' are. They seem ignored by scholars, though talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies.)[2] You might be able to get him (Odium) to choose a champion. He is bound by some rules. All of us are. A champion could work well for you, but it is not certain. And ... without the Dawnshards ... Well, I have done what I can. It is a terrible, terrible thing to leave you alone.A man claiming to be the Almighty, speaking to Dalinar[3] Speculation Considering the fact that Shardblades and Shardplate are sometimes simply called 'Shards', it is possible that the Dawnshards refer to the Honorblades carried by the Heralds. Shallan, however, believes that the two objects are entirely separate.[1] http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Dawnshards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 I think it very likely that at least some of these ideas will turn out to be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalocx Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 On 7/25/2017 at 7:33 PM, axcellence said: Can you provide the quote? Also, would there be cultivation blades? Edgedancer Blades are already Cultivation Blades. Actually I would assume that there are three different "types" of Shardblade considering they are more or less made out of God metal: pure Tanavastium blades (like Syl), pure Cultivationium blades (Wyndle) and Honor/Cultivation alloy blades since we know some spren including possible Bondspren are mixtures of different Shards + pre-Shattering remnants of investature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2563 Posted August 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Zalocx said: Edgedancer Blades are already Cultivation Blades. Actually I would assume that there are three different "types" of Shardblade considering they are more or less made out of God metal: pure Tanavastium blades (like Syl), pure Cultivationium blades (Wyndle) and Honor/Cultivation alloy blades since we know some spren including possible Bondspren are mixtures of different Shards + pre-Shattering remnants of investature I think that some blades/spren are "more" of Honor than Cultivation, and vice versa, but I think all spren contain some of each. Why would a pure spren of Cultivation care about oaths or ideals? Also, even though Syl calls herself an honorspren, I think it is more because of how she sees herself, rather than due to her true nature as a spren. See the below WoB's. They aren't the most solid, but they do seem to point to not any spren being 100% of either Honor or Cultivation: Quote QUESTION Is Cultivation's Shardholder still alive. BRANDON SANDERSON Good question, what do you think? QUESTION I want to say, but that's based on my knowledge before I read Lift's interlude from Words of Radiance. Now I am leaning towards no. Based on that interlude, it looks like spren have essence from both Honor and Cultivation. It's almost like they exist in a spectrum, on one end of which is Honor, and on the other - Cultivation; so there are spren that are, for the lack of better example, 90% Honor and 10% Cultivation, and there are spren that are 15% Honor and 85% Cultivation. BRANDON SANDERSON That's a very astute observation http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='cultivation' Quote QUESTION A question related to that. There’s an idea going around that all the spren that can Nahel Bond, all Knight Radiant spren are called honorspren, and then Nohadon talks specifically about honorspren. Is that the case? You know, is it just the Windrunner spren, or is it all the spren? BRANDON SANDERSON I’m going to deal with this in the next book. So I’ll just go ahead and let it be a literal RAFO. It is coming. (interruption, leading Brandon to lose his train of thought) So what we are dealing with here is that all Spren are indeed all pieces of the one who has gone, so those spren are all- except the Windrunner spren, the spren like Syl, have certain umm. ZAS Nohadon mentioned that "All the spren aren’t as discerning as honorspren." BRANDON SANDERSON So there has been dissension among them about who gets to call themselves honorspren, if that makes sense, and there is some disagreement among scholars about which ones are really, you know "This is what defines an honorspren". But the spren you are running into are all (something) of either Honor or Cultivation, or some mixture between them. And you can usually tell the ones that are more Honor, and the ones that are more Cultivation. That should be able to be (something). [Source] Edited August 24, 2017 by phoenix2563 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneKEA Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 Here's a goofy thought. is it plausible that The Poem of Ista was written by a Dysian Aimian, and that the snippet of the poem describes a cremling crawling up a human-sized staircase with one of the black spheres Gavila has in its grasp? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) On 8/24/2017 at 2:48 AM, Zalocx said: Edgedancer Blades are already Cultivation Blades. Actually I would assume that there are three different "types" of Shardblade considering they are more or less made out of God metal: pure Tanavastium blades (like Syl), pure Cultivationium blades (Wyndle) and Honor/Cultivation alloy blades since we know some spren including possible Bondspren are mixtures of different Shards + pre-Shattering remnants of investature I personally assume that there are 9 different types of shard blades (since bondsmiths do not get 1) each with its one alloy of Honor and Cultivation metals. Or possibly 8, if the Skybreakers never fell... Edited August 30, 2017 by FiveLate Continuation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozndevl Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Why wouldn't the Skybreakers have an alloy? The Recreance was far after the Shattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondMind Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, frozndevl said: Why wouldn't the Skybreakers have an alloy? The Recreance was far after the Shattering. One of the Words of Radiance (in-book) quotes implies that one of the 10 orders of the KR didn't fall. There's a theory that the Skybreakers are that one order, so no current Shardholder would have a Skybreaker blade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozndevl Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Yes, I'm familiar with that theory, but didn't know you were referring only to dead shardblades only. Living Skybreaker blades will still likely be an alloy, per your argument, when manifesting in the Physical realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, frozndevl said: Yes, I'm familiar with that theory, but didn't know you were referring only to dead shardblades only. Living Skybreaker blades will still likely be an alloy, per your argument, when manifesting in the Physical realm. Yes, I edited to reference dead shard blades since theoretically none of the Skybreakers broke. But 9 or 8 either way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 @phoenix2563 Why do you read the second WoB as indicating that all spren are "alloys"? The wording, "of either Honor or Cultivation, or some mixture between them" to me doesn't exclude the possibility of a 100% honor spren, and in fact implies that for some spren that is the case. And this the more concrete of the two WoBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirscott13 Posted September 3, 2017 Report Share Posted September 3, 2017 Hey sorry if this was mentioned, I have a signed copy of Words of Radiance from the midnight release and in the sticky I left him I asked what he could tell me about dawnshards and his reply was that one dawnshard is not like the others. This holds credit to the 9 being used for binding the unmade and the 10th being used for something more... interesting 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix2563 Posted September 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) @Emerald101 yes you are right that the above wob's do not deny that a spren cannot be 100% honor or 100% Cultivation, but neither do they confirm it. It does seem to confirm that there is a spectrum. I personally find it unlikely due to how intertwined in the underlying magic we find the influences of both Honor (more of a cognitive shard) and Cultivation (more of a physical shard). Even "honorspren" are cousins of windspren, which seem to be more elemental rather than cognitive in nature, and therefore more related to Cultivation. Shallan's spren, Pattern actually seems more related to Honor on many levels as it is so much more cognitive in nature. Edited September 4, 2017 by phoenix2563 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 I always saw Honor as much more of a spiritual shard than a cognitive one. Honor is all about bonds, and connections are spiritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 17 minutes ago, Emerald101 said: I always saw Honor as much more of a spiritual shard than a cognitive one. Honor is all about bonds, and connections are spiritual. Yeah. The morality issue of Honor, the part that requires thought, is absent. Honor is about the bonds that hold things together. Maintain promises and expectations. I agree it's far more Spiritual than Cognitive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 17 hours ago, Sirscott13 said: Hey sorry if this was mentioned, I have a signed copy of Words of Radiance from the midnight release and in the sticky I left him I asked what he could tell me about dawnshards and his reply was that one dawnshard is not like the others. This holds credit to the 9 being used for binding the unmade and the 10th being used for something more... interesting Has the picture been uploaded? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crucible of Shards Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Calderis said: Yeah. The morality issue of Honor, the part that requires thought, is absent. Honor is about the bonds that hold things together. Maintain promises and expectations. I agree it's far more Spiritual than Cognitive This makes sense. How would this relate to Cultivation being better than Honor at seeing the future? Because it would seem to imply the opposite. Edited September 4, 2017 by Crucible of Shards Clarity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just now, Crucible of Shards said: This makes sense. How would this relate to Cultivation being better than Honor at seeing the future? I don't know. It's only speculation, but I think it has everything to do with the intent. With Honor's focus on bonds, I think there's a major component looking backwards. Maintaining the bonds that have been formed. Keeping promises made. Cultivation, on the other hand, is all about the future. Laying the ground work so that things grow the way you want them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Shard Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 @FiveLate This was the original post. Don't see any picture @Sirscott13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirscott13 Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, 18th Shard said: @FiveLate This was the original post. Don't see any picture @Sirscott13 Here is the photograph https://m.imgur.com/SvECwR9 Edited September 4, 2017 by Sirscott13 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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