Question

Hi, 

I was just wondering how the power of Fullborns would scale with regards to Heralds. 

In particular, how would Kelsier or Spook (who are similarly powerful) match up against a Herald? Assume that both Fullborns have access to all 16 Metals (in unlimited quantities), but no God Metals, and that Herald has access to unlimited Stormlight and is one with offensive capabilities.

Furthermore, how would The Lord Ruler have matched up against a Herald? All 10 Heralds?

Thanks

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I think a good question is: how difficult it would be to Soulcast the Fullborn like Jasnah did :) 

Obviously, the Fullborn will have a significant amount of innate investiture, but if it's not a Sliver like TLR, it might not be as big of an issue. There as thread about the difficulty of Soulcasting being a function of your persuasiveness vs. the amount of Stormlight at your disposal.

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16 minutes ago, Crucible of Shards said:

There as thread about the difficulty of Soulcasting being a function of your persuasiveness vs. the amount of Stormlight at your disposal.

Regarding whether you could Soulcast a Fullborn, here's a snippet by Spool from the last TLR v Herald topic.

Quote

Fair, except we don't actually know how much is going on with them so to say that they're above a threshold where they can't be hit with emotional allomancy but Rashek is below the threshold where he can be easily affected by Soulcasting is extremely tenuous. I honestly see it as more likely that they're both above a threshold where direct investiture-based attacks would be largely ineffective.

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As I think I mentioned earlier: I'd guess that Aluminum ferruchemy (Identity) would probably provide additional defense against soulcasting as well, though that is just a guess.

I posted the question in the ultimate list thread, but I also sort of wonder if Duralumin ferruchemy might not allow the fullborn to bond with the honorblade and sort of steal it.  I suspect that probably wouldn't work, but I kind of like the concept.  and we do know that other people can use the honorblades, so it isn;t entirely out of the question to imagine that they could bond to it and use it.

Edited by Dunkum
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15 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

I posted the question in the ultimate list thread, but I also sort of wonder if Duralumin ferruchemy might not allow the fullborn to bond with the honorblade and sort of steal it.  I suspect that probably wouldn't work, but I kind of like the concept.  and we do know that other people can use the honorblades, so it isn;t entirely out of the question to imagine that they could bond to it and use it.

IIRC an Honorblade isn't bonded, just held.

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2 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

IIRC an Honorblade isn't bonded, just held.

Brandon later clarified that they can be bonded. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1080#13

Quote

QUESTION ()

You mentioned that human can’t bond Honorblades, but Nalan tells Szeth that his bond with his Honorblade has been broken. Can you clear this up?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Humans CAN bond Honorblades. There's a crucial difference between Honorblades and Shardblades. When you drop an Honorblade, it does not disappear, even if it has been bonded. A Shardblade will disappear when dropped

 

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2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

When you drop an Honorblade, it does not disappear, even if it has been bonded. A Shardblade will disappear when dropped

Which means one of two things. Szeth knows this, and has to mentally command it to disappear when he drops it, or it's another instance of cognitive perception, like the heartbeats. Because Szeth has dropped his blade on purpose and had it disappear. [WoK I-9 Death Wears White]

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I wonder if heralds can use stormlight to amplify their speed. If they can, and stormlight buffs are multiplicative rather than additive, heralds are in the high bullet timer range. Then if there are 10 heralds...well they still probably lose but it's a lot closer.

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14 hours ago, Oversleep said:

A Fullborn with just 10 metals is a physical god and Heralds have nothing on such a powerhouse. Compounding gold and Compounding steel are pretty much enough.

Giving him 16 metals, which include Nicrosil Feruchemy AND Nicrosil Compounding? Constant Mistpoint on everything? I think even Hoid would be afraid.

So yeah, against a Fullborn nobody is gonna win.
An argument could be made that against TLR specifically they could try to cut away his bracers - after all, while he has almost a thousand years of experience with Metallic Arts, those years made him arrogant - if it wasn't for that, Vin would have died instantly.
But against regular Fullborn who is not dependant on Compounding atium to stay alive? Not a chance... maybe if they Soulcast a nuclear bomb, I'm not sure Compounding gold could let you survive a nuclear bomb in point blank.

This actually just gave me an interesting idea for a question, does anyone know if we've got confirmation of whether or not different isotopes would change feruchemical or hemalurgic charges? I haven't been keeping up on my WoB lately.

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On 7/9/2017 at 9:56 AM, Calderis said:

Yeah, a Fullborn is, for all intents and purposes, The Lord Ruler. I find it difficult to picture a fight that TLR falls to any single Herald.

Although I feel like a Herald would also just be constantly healing any wounds with stormlight so part of the question is whether a fullborn can heal from an honorblade wound. If they can i think thats a serious advantage for the Herald.

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On 7/11/2017 at 6:30 AM, FiveLate said:

Based off of the discussions here

I would lean towards no, bc it seems to be related to the electromagnetic charges themselves and neutrons are umm neutral in that respect.  Tin with its 10 stable isotopes would be a nightmare.  Since pure metals are required, you would probably need to have pure isotopes for Allomancy to work, and that is far beyond the tech of TFE.  The majority of the differences between them have to do with things like the macroscopic cross sections for absorption of sub atomic particles as different energy states.

Now to go completely against what I just said.  What if tin minds stored different essences in different isotopes of Tin?

So I agree that they wouldn't be different; however, there's no such thing as a pure isotope. So i just think that any isotope would behave the same.

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Just now, kalaxin said:

Although I feel like a Herald would also just be constantly healing any wounds with Stormlight so part of the question is whether a Fullborn can heal from an Honorblade wound. If they can't i think that's a serious advantage for the Herald.

They can heal from Shardblade wounds. It's the first post in the Thread that I linked on page one. The answer by Kurkistan.

As for constantly healing wounds, The Fullborn only has to outlast their Stormlight reserves, which is not that difficult.

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3 minutes ago, kalaxin said:

Although I feel like a Herald would also just be constantly healing any wounds with stormlight so part of the question is whether a fullborn can heal from an honorblade wound. If they can i think thats a serious advantage for the Herald.

F-gold could heal hemalurgic damage, and therefore heal the soul, so yes, it could heal a Shardblade wound. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1084#69

Quote

KURKISTAN (GOODREADS)

Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, he could not. He would no longer be an Allomancer. Also, he'd probably be dead. :)

KURKISTAN

I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...

BRANDON SANDERSON

Oh, I see what you're asking. Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work. (That's why I get for reading the questions so quickly.)

 

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Just now, Calderis said:

F-gold could heal hemalurgic damage, and therefore heal the soul, so yes, it could heal a Shardblade wound. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1084#69

 

Yeah that makes sense. Doesn't it kind of just become a matter of who cuts off the other persons head first then?

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Just now, kalaxin said:

Yeah that makes sense. Doesn't it kind of just become a matter of who cuts off the other persons head first then?

The Lord Ruler has healed from that in the past. It's mentioned in Mistborn. He's also been burned to a skeleton and healed back. F-gold is ridiculous when compounded. 

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2 minutes ago, kalaxin said:

Doesn't it kind of just become a matter of who cuts off the other persons head first then?

Up for debate.

Quote

Soronir

About Miles from Alloy of Law and his regenerative powers. If he was bisected down the middle and the halves were separated immediately before the healing process could begin, would the two halves each regrow into a whole Miles?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question. In all of the Cosmere's Shard-based magics, the greater portion of a bisected body regrows the lesser portion. If it were done EXACTLY halfway, the soul wold jump to one or the other randomly and that would regrow.

Amusingly, this first came up in 1999, six years before I got published. (I see someone else already mentioned the situation where I had to consider it.)

Phantine

So... wait a sec, the Lord Ruler got decapitated at one point...

What did he do with the severed head? Mount it on the wall?

Brandon Sanderson

: )

Phantine

He mounted it SIDEWAYS? :P

Edited by The One Who Connects
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On 7/9/2017 at 0:12 PM, Calderis said:

I think between gold compounding and steel compounding alone, not even considering all of the other powers, a Fullborn would kill any Herald without an issue. 

A Surgebinder with unlimited Stormlight is pretty much equivalent to having gold compounding.  Steel+Zinc compounding would still give them a win, though.

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5 hours ago, FiveLate said:

Well actually we can separate isotopes now.  Have been since the 1940s.  Mostly it is used to isolate deuterium and tritium from protium in Hydrogen and U-234 from U-235 and U-238 to make nuclear reactors that run on U-234 for its greater macroscopic cross section for absorption of a thermal neutron and faster response times allowing for use in systems that need fast power output changes.  Primarily Naval Nuclear Reactors on Submarines and Aircraft Carriers where up to 80% of the power goes to propulsion, which needs a high rate of change.

I agree it shouldn't matter, I was just curious if the question had ever been asked, because theoretically anything on Nalthis could probably be traced back to a single source since everything living recycles atoms and molecules and rock basically does the same thin geologically.

Oh yeah we totally can! You can separate isotopes what I meant is that there isn't an isotope that is considered more "pure" than another.

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A Herald would shitstomp a Mistborn, but a Fullborn is basically a demigod. Heralds don't really have a chance.

Edited by Rob Lucci
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