Sel and the Shardshovel

[Steeldancer]

So Sel is alive, somewhat. That means it has a spirit web. Shardblades cut spiritwebs. So, if I'm a radiant, and I get myself to Sel, and make my spren into a Shard-shovel, I could potentially  (with a lot of digging) kill Sel. I presume it would take a lot of digging, but the image is both ridiculous and a little scary. Planet murder is... not nice. 

[Calderis]

I'll dig for it, but there there's a WoB that says all planets have souls. 

Sel is only different in that the investiture in the Cognitive Realm is creating a mind associated with that soul.

So theoretically, you could kill any planet that way. 

Edit: here it is. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979#17

Quote

NEPENE ()

Do cosmere planets have a soul, like in final fantasy?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

TAGS

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Calderis

[Spoolofwhool]

Everything has a spiritweb. It's part of its existence realmatically. Life or intelligence level only contribute to the magnitude of its spiritual aspect. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Spoolofwhool

[Faceless Mist-Wraith]

52 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Sel is only different in that the investiture in the Cognitive Realm is creating a mind associated with that soul.

Where is this from?

Also, if a planet has a mind, does this mean it can interact with its inhabitants, or is it only a passive mind?

[Calderis]

55 minutes ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

Where is this from?

Also, if a planet has a mind, does this mean it can interact with its inhabitants, or is it only a passive mind?

The Sel essay in AU says that the land itself is becoming sentient due to the Dor. I'll go grab my book and edit it in. 

Edit: from the AU essay on Sel 

Quote

At this point, the bulk of the Investiture that made up the powers of Dominion and Devotion is trapped on the Cognitive Realm. Collectively, these powers-which have a polarized relationship-are called the Dor. Forced together as they are, trapped, and bursting to escape, they power the various forms of magic on Sel, which are multitude. 

Because the Cognitive Realm has distinct locations (unlike the Spiritual Realm, where most forms of Investiture reside), magic on Sel is very dependent upon physical position. In addition, the rules of perception and intent are greatly magnified on Sel, to the point that language-or similar functions-directly shapes the magic as it is pulled from the Cognitive Realm and put to use. 

This overlap between language, location, and magic on the planet has become so integral to the system that subtle changes in one can have profound effects on how the Dor is accessed. Indeed, I believe that the very landscape itself has become Invested to the point that it has a growing self-awareness, in a way unseen on other planets in the Cosmere. I do not know how this happened, or what the ramifications will be. 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Calderis

[+Extesian]

I think it's unlikely for this reason?

Quote

Q: What does Nightblood do if he gets fully drawn and runs out of breath and people to eat?
Does he start vaporizing the ground and start boring a hole to the center of the planet?
 
A: No, he won't. (Good question though.) I'm not sure I want to get into the mechanics of why not, yet. It WAS one of the first things we talked about with Nightblood, though.
 

 

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, Extesian said:

I think it's unlikely for this reason?

 

I agree. The planet itself has a spiritual representation, as everything does, as @Spoolofwhool pointed out. 

For a Shardblade to effect that though, it has to pass through living flesh. So a Shardblade will cut the soul of a living entity be it flora or fauna, but earth will be cut physically.

So while a planet has a spiritual representation it is still a non-living object. The growing sentience of Sel is due to the Dor in the Cognitive Realm, and that may have changed its Spiritual aspect somewhat, but I do not think it will qualify as a living entity as far as a blade is concerned. Any cut to the planet itself is only going to cut, perfectly and with almost no resistance, in the Physical Realm. 

[Spoolofwhool]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I agree. The planet itself has a spiritual representation, as everything does, as @Spoolofwhool pointed out. 

For a Shardblade to effect that though, it has to pass through living flesh. So a Shardblade will cut the soul of a living entity be it flora or fauna, but earth will be cut physically.

So while a planet has a spiritual representation it is still a non-living object. The growing sentience of Sel is due to the Dor in the Cognitive Realm, and that may have changed its Spiritual aspect somewhat, but I do not think it will qualify as a living entity as far as a blade is concerned. Any cut to the planet itself is only going to cut, perfectly and with almost no resistance, in the Physical Realm. 

Actually, I think that it's not really a matter of it being living or not, but more a matter of the magnitude of its spiritual aspect. Living entities have greater spiritual, and this essentially shields the physical from being cut at the same time. Generally, non-living entities have far lesser spiritual, so this protection doesn't exist, allowing the sprenblade to cut both the physical and spiritual aspects at the same. 

If the planet is gaining self-awareness, this means that its spiritual aspect is growing. I can see the possibility that a sprenblade might need to damage its spiritual before it can cut it physically.

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

If the planet is gaining self-awareness, this means that its spiritual aspect is growing. I can see the possibility that a sprenblade might need to damage its spiritual before it can cut it physically.

I hadn't considered it that way, and don't know if I agree or not. I have to think about this. 

[Oversleep]

If you want to kill a planet, I think Hemalurgy will do - just fire a really long spike from the orbit at such an angle so that it comes out, ripping off the Spiritweb. Repeat if necessary.

[Toaster Retribution]

12 hours ago, Calderis said:

I'll dig for it,

Speaking of shardshovels...

[Calderis]

5 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Speaking of shardshovels...

I wish that were intentional 

[Spoolofwhool]

6 hours ago, Oversleep said:

If you want to kill a planet, I think Hemalurgy will do - just fire a really long spike from the orbit at such an angle so that it comes out, ripping off the Spiritweb. Repeat if necessary.

Not surprising this came from the person responsible for asking about spiking spren.

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Not surprising this came from the person responsible for asking about spiking spren.

It stems from my read through all available Hemalurgy WoBs back in October. Although I cannot recall whether it was a WoB or that there was some discussion involving spiking planets.

Actually it wasn't me who asked that question - I just did all the important follow ups

[The One Who Connects]

19 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Although I cannot recall whether it was a WoB or that there was some discussion involving spiking planets.

I swear there was a WoB about that as well, possibly about planets having a spiritweb, but all I can find so far are these two.

[WhiteLeeopard]

Now you want to murder slash steal a planet's essence, what next?

[Fezzik]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment

What properties does tungsten steal?

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, john203 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment

What properties does tungsten steal?

Unfortunately it's not a part of the metallic arts. What's the hardest hemalurgically viable metal?

[Oversleep]

8 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Unfortunately it's not a part of the metallic arts. What's the hardest hemalurgically viable metal?

We can cover the tungsten with hemalurgically viable metal.

57 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Now you want to murder slash steal a planet's essence, what next?

Obviously the next target would be a star. Then we will move on to star systems, then to galaxies...

Edited July 2, 2017 by Oversleep

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Obviously the next target would be a star. Then we will move on to star systems, then to galaxies...

After you spike the Cosmere, I'm pretty sure you've broken the magic system. 

[Faceless Mist-Wraith]

49 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Now you want to murder slash steal a planet's essence, what next?

In the event that you did use a hemalurgic spike to steal a planet's spirit-web, do we have an idea of what attribute would it be stealing?

And in the event that you did manage to steal this attribute, what would be the next step? What happens if you (somehow) spike someone with this spike?

But if we really wanted to kill a planet via its soul, I think the best bet would be a skyscraper sized Shardblade or Nightblood.

[+Extesian]

[Yitzi2]

4 hours ago, Calderis said:

After you spike the Cosmere, I'm pretty sure you've broken the magic system. 

No wonder Khriss thinks Hemalurgy has so much potential. 

[Faceless Mist-Wraith]

2 hours ago, Extesian said:

Spoiler

Joking aside, if you were going to kill a planet with a shard shovel, wouldn't you have to use the shovel on some vital part of the planet? Normal living things don't die from a shardblade unless you hit something vital like the spine, so I imagine you would have to do something similar with the planet. Also there is the fact that a planet, especially Sel, is super Invested so there may be a chance that it may be able to heal the damage caused to its soul. If it heals faster than you can dig, it may just be impossible to "kill" a planet.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Faceless Mist-Wraith

[Toaster Retribution]

6 hours ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Joking aside, if you were going to kill a planet with a shard shovel, wouldn't you have to use the shovel on some vital part of the planet? Normal living things don't die from a shardblade unless you hit something vital like the spine, so I imagine you would have to do something similar with the planet. Also there is the fact that a planet, especially Sel, is super Invested so there may be a chance that it may be able to heal the damage caused to its soul. If it heals faster than you can dig, it may just be impossible to "kill" a planet.

I guess you could have either a lot of people digging with Shardshovels, or you just dig in the planets core, or something (although trying to dig at a planet core would pose a lot of other interesting problems).

11 hours ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

And in the event that you did manage to steal this attribute, what would be the next step? What happens if you (somehow) spike someone with this spike?

Seeing as the planet-spiking spike has to be planet sized, I think that you would turn the unfortunate guy you attempt to spike into a bloody, and very dead, mess.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Toaster Retribution