Stone Shaman Turmoil

[Calderis]

Rampant speculation incoming.

I want to give credit to the person who first planted the idea in my head but I can't remember what thread it was in... So here goes. 

So assuming that Szeth is correct, and the Stone Shamans have a way to detect an Honorblade which has had its bond severed, I believe that when Taln's Blade became unbound they detected it.

I believe they would have assumed that the blade was Szeth's and set out to retrieve it. Upon retrieval, they replaced it with a Shardblade resulting in the confusion we all know about Taln's Blade. 

Now here's where I think things get interesting. The Shamanate has held the blades for Millenia. They would know what the Blades are, and even if they were unable to identify the blade by its form (which I think they would be able to readily dismiss it as one of the 9 they have kept in the past, ruling out both Szeth's/Jezrien's and Nale's), they would be able to know it by its surges. 

So the Shamanate retrieves a Shardblade that, by their beliefs should never be present on Roshar again. They realize that they have made Szeth a Truthless in error, but in an attempt to avoid panic they are trying to keep it quiet. 

So the Shamanate knows that a desolation is coming. Their leadership is panicking. And when Szeth arrives to confront them, I think that instead of a fight, they will offer him leadership and restoration to his name as the only man to have recognized the truth. 

The Everstorm obviously changes things, but considering we know the blades were swapped sometime between the end end of tWoK and Taln's arrival at the war camps, I believe they were caught as off guard as they could have been.

The storm was probably most devastating in Shinovar, compared to other places. That they couldn't have prepared for, but the Shamanate would have known that they would have to fight and been trying to avoid mass panic while preparing. 

I think as a nation, Shinovar may be in better shape than expected. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Calderis

[Ammanas]

I like it, but if he accepts it would mean leaving Darkness' (can't remember his real name) service and giving up Nightblood. I think he will be with Nightblood for a long time and remain in service to the Skybreakers

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

I like it, but if he accepts it would mean leaving Darkness' (can't remember his real name) service and giving up Nightblood. I think he will be with Nightblood for a long time and remain in service to the Skybreakers

I disagree. I think he will view Nightblood as another blade that must be kept for the danger it poses. 

Edgedancer spoiler 

Spoiler

His willingness to call out Nale, and his views on the law having evolved over his time as Truthless (he questioned the rules regarding treading on stone, because how can the non-shin avoid it?) I think that he will stand up to Nale (assuming Nale's outlook doesn't significantly change after Edgedancer) and take leadership of the Skybreakers as well. He will show that the Skybreakers must uphold the law, but it's folly to believe the law infallible. 

 

[king of nowhere]

well,  if the stone shamanate was not in turmoil before the everstorm, it certainly is now. by now, they must have figured out szeth was right, but they are probably too busy to give it much thought. they may even be all dead, except that storytelling convention makes it unlikely. and yes, it is possible they will offer leadership to szeth.

[Calderis]

4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

well,  if the stone shamanate was not in turmoil before the everstorm, it certainly is now. by now, they must have figured out szeth was right, but they are probably too busy to give it much thought. they may even be all dead, except that storytelling convention makes it unlikely. and yes, it is possible they will offer leadership to szeth.

I actually forgot to address that in the OP. The Everstorm obviously changes things, but considering we know the blades were swapped sometime between the end end of tWoK and Taln's arrival at the war camps, I believe they were caught as off guard as they could have been.

The storm was probably most devastating in Shinovar, compared to other places. That they couldn't have prepared for, but the Shamanate would have known that they would have to fight and been trying to avoid mass panic while preparing. 

I think as a nation, Shinovar may be in better shape than expected.

Edit: edited this into the OP as I meant to include it. That's what I get for trying to write a post in a traffic jam.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Calderis

[Toaster Retribution]

One of the major questions about the Shins recovery of Talns blade is how they managed to do it. Of the shamans had to send a guy out from Shinovar, he would probably not make it to Taln before he arrived at the warcamps. Also, Im pretty sure we have a WoB that says Hoid is aware of the switch, so its likely that it happened before he left Bordin, which gives it a pretty small timeframe, one far too small for a shin to make it there if he is travelling from Shinovar.

So either the shin have people spread out over Roshar who they can A) trust and B ) reach quickly, who can then go get the blade, or they use one of blades that grants elsecalling in order to get there. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

I'm not so sure whether the Stone Shamans will offer leadership to Szeth. For one people don't often think very clearly when in a panic, for another, they may be reluctant to give leadership to someone that is obviously walking the line of madness and that belived himself the lowest of the low for years. 

As for Szeth accepting, that would be a toss between how vengeful he is feeling and whether he would give in to such urges or follow another code, or if he feels instead he should focus on been a RK (a Frankenstein RK?). 

Edited June 24, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

So either the shin have people spread out over Roshar who they can A) trust and B ) reach quickly, who can then go get the blade, or they use one of blades that grants elsecalling in order to get there.

Or the stone shamans have both Honorblades capable of transportation and experience using them and will just teleportation.

1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

As for Szeth accepting, that would be a toss between how vengeful he is feeling and whether he would give in to such urges or follow another code, or if he feels instead he should focus on been a RK (a Frankenstein RK?). 

I honestly don't think Szeth is a bad person. Zealous, and misguided yes. He's learned that the world does not function the way he thought though. I don't think he's going to rush in with Nightblood and attempt to kill the Stone Shamans without speaking. He's had more than enough slaughter. When he sees that they know they're wrong, I think he'll gladly accept a reason not to kill them.

Him accepting leadership is another story though. I don't know what to think about if he'll accept it or not. 

[Toaster Retribution]

28 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Or the stone shamans have both Honorblades capable of transportation and experience using them and will just teleportation.

That is what I meant when I spoke of Elsecalling. Probably wasnt clear enough though, sorry about that.

[Calderis]

14 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

That is what I meant when I spoke of Elsecalling. Probably wasnt clear enough though, sorry about that.

I wasn't awake yet and apparently missed that part of your post. I apologize 

[Fulminato]

for the shin culture a warrior must serve, the shamanate never give szeth a place of leadership. but i think the evestorm hit shinovar  very hard. this land don't know the full highstorm force, the evestorm blow in the wrong direction, but many roshan know the storm, and how survive them, but not the shin, and shinovar is the first land to be hit by the new storm.

[Spoolofwhool]

11 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

this land don't know the full highstorm force, the evestorm blow in the wrong direction, but many roshan know the storm, and how survive them, but not the shin, and shinovar is the first land to be hit by the new storm.

This is true, but Shinovar still has mountains in the West which will buffer the Everstorm, so they should take reduced damage from it.

[Shoots]

Since the punishment for raising a false alarm for a desolation is becoming Truthless, shouldn't the punishment for ignoring a true alarm for the desolation also be Truthless?  They were without truth when they denied the desolation (and based on Szeth's experience it doesn't matter that they thought they were speaking the truth).

Also do we know anything about the stone spirits that Szeth mentions also said the voidbringers had not returned? 

[Calderis]

5 minutes ago, Shoots said:

Since the punishment for raising a false alarm for a desolation is becoming Truthless, shouldn't the punishment for ignoring a true alarm for the desolation also be Truthless?  They were without truth when they denied the desolation (and based on Szeth's experience it doesn't matter that they thought they were speaking the truth). 

Yes. But condemning the entirety of the religious world in Shinovar is probably not an option. That why I think he will be offered leadership because in contrast to what they believed he was the only one to recognize truth. 

8 minutes ago, Shoots said:

Also do we know anything about the stone spirits that Szeth mentions also said the voidbringers had not returned? 

I don't think we know anything about them. Considering that Spren do not manifest in Shinovar, I think theirs is like reins in our world, where their conviction and belief may make them think they are communing with the spirits, it's a psychological self confirmation and they were told they were right... Because they believed they were right. 

[Shoots]

Why is Nale sending Szeth to bring justice to the stone shamans?  Because their error is denying the return of voidbringers, but at the end of WoR, Nale hasn't accepted that the desolation has returned.

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Shoots said:

Why is Nale sending Szeth to bring justice to the stone shamans?  Because their error is denying the return of voidbringers, but at the end of WoR, Nale hasn't accepted that the desolation has returned.

I don't think that Nale cares about the stone shamans at all. He sees Szeth as someone willing to follow a code of law to perfection, even at the detriment of himself and the world at large.

I think people see a reckoning coming from Szeth himself, and while it's possible, I don't think he wants to. 

If Nale is involved at all, it will only be in trying to OP insure Szeth's loyalty, and then, only if it is actually something Szeth wants.

[WhiteLeeopard]

I don't think that Szeth is a bad person either. But he is a bit of a blank slate, we know very little of him when he is not following ordes mindlessly. What do we know of him for certain? 

• He follows the law to the detriment of everything else
• He is insane
• He is/was very religious

Those and maybe a couple of other tidbits are not enough to let us make many guesses of where he will go next. As it is I don't really see him as leader material, as I don't think that an insane person that has been exiled for nearly a decade from his home will be what his home needs. He could possibly be happier and fit better as a Radiant, as they all have their issues too. But of course that opens the pandora box that Dalinar is at the head of the radiants, and even if he has to unite them all, accepting the man that killed Gavilar will likely make him burst a vein even if he can manage it. 

By the way @Calderis, I see your new reputation title is Torturer of Heralds! -Sucks breath- Harsh, but tell us... does that mean Odium or Odium's minion?

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

By the way @Calderis, I see your new reputation title is Torturer of Heralds! -Sucks breath- Harsh, but tell us... does that mean Odium or Odium's minion?

It's just a day job man. Show up, heat some hooks, burn some flesh. 

The boss is kind of a nightmare. You can tell he really wants out of here, but he's so tied down he doesn't know how to leave.

He takes all that frustration out on us workers, and he's got one damnation of a temper. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

It's just a day job man. Show up, heat some hooks, burn some flesh. 

The boss is kind of a nightmare. You can tell he really wants out of here, but he's so tied down he doesn't know how to leave.

He takes all that frustration out on us workers, and he's got one damnation of a temper. 

Storms, that sounds harsh. On the perk side, not many can say they are working for a god. Maybe you can put on your CV for the future "Experience with Shards", I hear there are some scholar nutjobs that would be thrilled to hear first person accounts of such. 

You might need the job transfer sooner than expected, as gossip seems to say your title could be changed to Torturer of ___, prissy Heralds have no consideration for people doing their jobs.