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Szeth Honorblade


Ammanas

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So if I recall correctly Szeth's honorblade is now in Kaladin's possession at the end of Words of Radiance. Upon a Truthless death Shin Stone Shamans are supposed to retrieve. I surmise that these shamans have a way to locate them and tell if a Truthless dies. Do you guys think there may be a showdown between Kal and these mysterious Stone Shamans in book 3? Or will the Heralds reclaim their blades and prevent this conflict?

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At least by Szeth's belief, yes they have a way to locate it, and will most likely use one of the transportation blades to try to recover it. 

Incidentally, I also think that their method of locating the Honorblades means that they are the ones who switched Taln's Blade. 

In world knowledge of the Honorblades is pretty much limited to them, and the Heralds. 

Edited by Calderis
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3 hours ago, Calderis said:

At least by Szeth's belief, yes they have a way to locate it, and will most likely use one of the transportation blades to try to recover it. 

Incidentally, I also think that their method of locating the Honorblades means that they are the ones who switched Taln's Blade. 

In world knowledge of the Honorblades is pretty much limited to them, and the Heralds. 

This is very interesting. Now that you mention it, it really makes sense that the Stone Shamans "stole" Taln's Blade.

But this poses 2 new questions:

If I recall correctly the blade was switched with a regular Shardblade? I don't remember what the Shin think of those (or if it's ever mentioned if they have or use Shardblades).

The other thing is that Szeth might be a former Stone Shaman. And that would explained why he's so proficient with the blade.

3 hours ago, Ammanas said:

Or will the Heralds reclaim their blades and prevent this conflict?

Why would they? They left Szeth go rampant all this time and did nothing. But keep in mind that with the return of Talenel anything can happen. 

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It won't necessarily be Kal vs the Shamans, but whoever will posses the blade.

3 hours ago, Luck Spren said:

The other thing is that Szeth might be a former Stone Shaman. And that would explained why he's so proficient with the blade.

I think so too. It's not only his experience with the blade, but the fact that he knows martial arts in a land where fighting is looked down at. I also don't think that becoming a truthless is something common. I don't think that if some simple soldier will start spreading rumors about the voidbringer's return he'll get such a steep punishment and also a blade. This, plus the fact that we know that there are others in Shinovar who can use the honorblades with proficiency,  makes me think that the every Stone shaman has one of the other blades, and that the truthless punishment is reserved only for Shamans.

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26 minutes ago, Storming Radiant said:

It won't necessarily be Kal vs the Shamans, but whoever will posses the blade.

I think so too. It's not only his experience with the blade, but the fact that he knows martial arts in a land where fighting is looked down at. I also don't think that becoming a truthless is something common. I don't think that if some simple soldier will start spreading rumors about the voidbringer's return he'll get such a steep punishment and also a blade. This, plus the fact that we know that there are others in Shinovar who can use the honorblades with proficiency,  makes me think that the every Stone shaman has one of the other blades, and that the truthless punishment is reserved only for Shamans.

Agreed. The term "Truthless" seems like a punishment reserved for those fail to recognize what is true and untrue, which is only really ever considered a crime when the person who fails is a leader, and this spreads their misconception and misleads people. 

And the Shin, despite being a peaceful people, don't look down on fighting, they look down on weapons. Specifically the sword. The thing that forces a soldier to pick up an Oathstone isn't fighting but picking up a sword. We know fr Szeth that to the Shin "killing is the greatest of sins" but the violence itself is not what is punished.

The Stone Shamans developed their martial art for this reason I think. Take up the Honorblades, dismiss them, and then practice a style of fighting that never requires you to use the blade itself. 

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23 minutes ago, Calderis said:

And the Shin, despite being a peaceful people, don't look down on fighting, they look down on weapons. Specifically the sword. The thing that forces a soldier to pick up an Oathstone isn't fighting but picking up a sword. We know fr Szeth that to the Shin "killing is the greatest of sins" but the violence itself is not what is punished.

I never thought about it this way, and it always seemed weird too me that the people who are so against fighting have such training with such destructive weapons,  but you're probably right. It makes much more sense your way. Thanks

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4 hours ago, Luck Spren said:

This is very interesting. Now that you mention it, it really makes sense that the Stone Shamans "stole" Taln's Blade....

Why would they? They left Szeth go rampant all this time and did nothing. But keep in mind that with the return of Talenel anything can happen. 

The last I heard the going theory was that Hoid switched the blades. But that was based on a 2014 thread and I don't know if any Words of Brandon have come out to refute it since then. 

As to your second point. It seems, based on Edgedancer that times are changing and the Heralds might be experiencing a paradigm shift. I think that it will not be long before they become humanity's shepherds like they were meant to be.

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15 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

The last I heard the going theory was that Hoid switched the blades. But that was based on a 2014 thread and I don't know if any Words of Brandon have come out to refute it since then. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1076#31

Quote

QUESTION

At the very end of Words of Radiance, Dalinar touches a Shardblade and it screams at him. Should that particular Blade have been safe?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No it should not have. It's a clue that something has happened. There are other clues that something is wrong with what the story you've been told is.

QUESTION

Because Option 2 is that it's unsafe to touch an honorblade, but there's no evidence of that.

BRANDON SANDERSON

There is no evidence of that. There's much stronger evidence that something else is going on.

QUESTION

Did Hoid switch out the blades?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

TAGS

shardblades ,  honorblades ,  hoid ,  words of radiance

 

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4 minutes ago, Extesian said:

The Stone Shamans don't need to worry about an Honorblade. They need to worry about a very angry Shin with one of the most dangerous objects in the Cosmere.

And excellent point about Taln's blade Calderis!

I know this is slightly off-topic, but some one told me that I need read Warbreaker to understand what the "one of the most dangerous objects in the Cosmere"

Is that true?

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1 minute ago, Luck Spren said:

I know this is slightly off-topic, but some one told me that I need read Warbreaker to understand what the "one of the most dangerous objects in the Cosmere"

Is that true?

It's not necessary, but it helps. 

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Will the Stone Shamans even know in the near future that Szeth lost his blade? If what they are doing is directly monitoring him, what they will see is Szeth rampaging around the world visibly killing leaders with a dangerous blade, and now Szeth going around Roshar with a dangerous blade. 

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1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Will the Stone Shamans even know in the near future that Szeth lost his blade? If what they are doing is directly monitoring him, what they will see is Szeth rampaging around the world visibly killing leaders with a dangerous blade, and now Szeth going around Roshar with a dangerous blade. 

If they are directly monitoring Szeth, they would notice immediately he has a different sword.  As far as I know nightblood cannot be dismissed like honorblades so Szeth could not hide the fact he has a new sword.  And I suspect the Stone Shamans have a different way of keeping tabs on Truthless and their honorblades, probably connected to either their oathstone or the honorblade itself.  I think the Stone Shamans would be alerted when Szeth's connection with either his honorblade or oathstone was cut when he died.

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1 minute ago, Shoots said:

If they are directly monitoring Szeth, they would notice immediately he has a different sword.  As far as I know nightblood cannot be dismissed like honorblades so Szeth could not hide the fact he has a new sword.  And I suspect the Stone Shamans have a different way of keeping tabs on Truthless and their honorblades, probably connected to either their oathstone or the honorblade itself.  I think the Stone Shamans would be alerted when Szeth's connection with either his honorblade or oathstone was cut when he died.

While we're on the subject. I'm assuming the Stone Shamans will eventually reach Urithiru in Oathbringer. We'll just have to see if they're hostile. But my guess is that they're not.

Oh, I just remembered that Szeth might try to kill them all too.

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42 minutes ago, Shoots said:

If they are directly monitoring Szeth, they would notice immediately he has a different sword.  As far as I know nightblood cannot be dismissed like honorblades so Szeth could not hide the fact he has a new sword.  And I suspect the Stone Shamans have a different way of keeping tabs on Truthless and their honorblades, probably connected to either their oathstone or the honorblade itself.  I think the Stone Shamans would be alerted when Szeth's connection with either his honorblade or oathstone was cut when he died.

While I definitely agree that the Stone Shamans likely keep tabs on Szeth, through all sorts of methods, I'm hesitant to believe that it's magical in any means (besides possibly having a Shaman with an Honorblade that grants the Transportation surge tail Szeth around all the time). Plus, there's a brand new WoB from the Supanova signing that confirms that the oathstone has no magical properties of its own (I'll go edit it in later).

As for the Honorblade, I'm not sure how the Shamans would even know that the bond has been broken. It's an interesting idea, I just don't think it's likely.

EDIT: Here's the WoB:

Quote

Q: if i was holding Szeth's oathstone would he understand my commands?

A. good question, i don't believe anyone has asked it before. No, an oathstone doesn't have any magical properties whatsoever.

Also, could someone help me out with linking to quotes and WoBs?

Edited by StrikerEZ
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2 hours ago, Shoots said:

And I suspect the Stone Shamans have a different way of keeping tabs on Truthless and their honorblades, probably connected to either their oathstone or the honorblade itself.  I think the Stone Shamans would be alerted when Szeth's connection with either his honorblade or oathstone was cut when he died.

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

Plus, there's a brand new WoB from the Supanova signing that confirms that the oathstone has no magical properties of its own (I'll go edit it in later).

As for the Honorblade, I'm not sure how the Shamans would even know that the bond has been broken. It's an interesting idea, I just don't think it's likely.

Plus, I assume Taravangian has the stone still. I am not sure how it would be useful to track him if he is never the one who holds it (with minor exceptions), even if it were magical.

 

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