theory Pattern's problem

[Krandacth]

Very quick theory:

When we first see Pattern he is appearing on things, then disappearing when Shallan looks at him. He ceases to do this when Shallan draws (aka measures) him. Did Shallan inadvertently lock Pattern's ability to become invisible (like other Radiant Spren) by drawing him, or is this inability a thing of Cryptics in general?

What do you guys think?

[GildedBear]

was he vanishing, or just zipping out of her line of sight?  I'm not sure and don't want to try to look it up.  I always thought it sounded like he was just zipping away.  However, I do like the idea that her drawing him forced him to stay visible.

 

On the other hand, didn't she draw him before the ship "wreck" so she would have lost the drawing but it might not count as destroyed so that would keep him stuck...

[Calderis]

I always took this as their bond resurfacing and her literally drawing him further into the physical realm. 

I think his previous fading was just the bond being too fragile. Pattern wasn't just invisible to others, like Syl with Kaladin, but to Shallan. 

I think the inability to become fully invisible is just a trait of Cryptics. 

[Toaster Retribution]

Wasnt there something similar with those flamespren in the Interlude with the Gordon Ramsay-ardent? They got measured and stayed in the same shape afterwards. I dont exactly remember, and the magic and spren isnt my strong suit (although I am trying to get into it a bit more).

[+Extesian]

So my belief is this (posted on the Sydney signing thread).

Quote

 

Darkness: Cool! So with the whole Jasnah scene, she inhales Stormlight, for using soulcasting. So how is it the soulcaster appears to glow more fiercely instead of growing dimmer in that scene?

Brandon: Um… heh heh heh… So… this is perception on Shallan’s part, watching and kind of resonating with the soulcasting, and some weird things are happening that she sees, and not necessarily anyone else is seeing.

 

 

Seems like nice confirmation that Shallan can see a bit into the cognitive realm. My belief is that pattern couldn't be seen by others at first. Shallan, as a proto/lapsed transformation surgebinder, could already see investiture (just kinetic investiture?). Makes me think that is how she could see Pattern initially. She then used her Lightweaver powers to draw him, which let her pull him partially into the physical realm.

[Luck Spren]

On 6/20/2017 at 10:19 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

Wasnt there something similar with those flamespren in the Interlude with the Gordon Ramsay-ardent? They got measured and stayed in the same shape afterwards. I dont exactly remember, and the magic and spren isnt my strong suit (although I am trying to get into it a bit more).

Gordon Ramsay-ardent 

I also though about this, but yeah you can lock Spren by measuring them apparently. Which Spren and how it's not clear yet. That whole chapter felt really strange to me. The other thing I also noticed (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that they're lovers right? But aren't they Ardents? 

[Toaster Retribution]

1 hour ago, Luck Spren said:

Gordon Ramsay-ardent 

I also though about this, but yeah you can lock Spren by measuring them apparently. Which Spren and how it's not clear yet. That whole chapter felt really strange to me. The other thing I also noticed (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that they're lovers right? But aren't they Ardents? 

They had some sort of relationship, I think, but Im not sure either. But I think it has to do with them living alone together out among the Reshi islands. They didnt need to follow rules very strictly out there.

[Calderis]

I don't think there are rules about relationships between ardents. Total speculation here, but Kab sales, although his status as an ardent it definitely in question, implies that a man can leave the ardent a because of a relationship with someone not also an ardent. I think the only issue that could arise from a relationship between ardents is children. 

[Luck Spren]

12 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't think there are rules about relationships between ardents. Total speculation here, but Kab sales, although his status as an ardent it definitely in question, implies that a man can leave the ardent a because of a relationship with someone not also an ardent. I think the only issue that could arise from a relationship between ardents is children. 

I know you're purely speculating, but I think that's stretching things too far in my opinion. We've seen way too many Ardents at this point to think that relationships between them could be possible. Not only that, but they're pretty much slaves and as you pointed out there's the children problem.

I'll simply assume they fell in love with each other considering that the two of them are on that island for what appears to be a long time now.

[Krandacth]

6 minutes ago, Luck Spren said:

I know you're purely speculating, but I think that's stretching things too far in my opinion. We've seen way too many Ardents at this point to think that relationships between them could be possible. Not only that, but they're pretty much slaves and as you pointed out there's the children problem.

I'll simply assume they fell in love with each other considering that the two of them are on that island for what appears to be a long time now.

It seems fairly clear they are in love, but also that they are content to not act on it (beyond being constantly in each other's company) because, in Geranid's words, "One did not write the ending of a lifetime of faith with a sloppy last chapter."

Edited June 23, 2017 by Krandacth

[Calderis]

6 minutes ago, Luck Spren said:

I know you're purely speculating, but I think that's stretching things too far in my opinion. We've seen way too many Ardents at this point to think that relationships between them could be possible. Not only that, but they're pretty much slaves and as you pointed out there's the children problem.

I'll simply assume they fell in love with each other considering that the two of them are on that island for what appears to be a long time now.

They are considered property, but they are also treated with respect and difference.

On a world such as Roshar, with the medical knowledge it possesses, I doubt they have failed to discover some form of chemical birth control, as that has been present here on Earth as far back as ancient Egypt. 

I have seen nothing in book to forbid relationships between ardents. No offense intended here, but the idea seems to originate based on religions in this world who's religious structure seem similar at first glance, but are drastically different. 

I have no problem simply agreeing to disagree. Until there is a clear prohibition shown in the story though, I am not going to assume that their religious restrictions are the same as ours. 

[Luck Spren]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

They are considered property, but they are also treated with respect and difference.

On a world such as Roshar, with the medical knowledge it possesses, I doubt they have failed to discover some form of chemical birth control, as that has been present here on Earth as far back as ancient Egypt. 

I have seen nothing in book to forbid relationships between ardents. No offense intended here, but the idea seems to originate based on religions in this world who's religious structure seem similar at first glance, but are drastically different. 

I have no problem simply agreeing to disagree. Until there is a clear prohibition shown in the story though, I am not going to assume that their religious restrictions are the same as ours. 

How could I ever be offended?  

I welcome constructive disagreements and discussions. And you're absolutely right, your perspective could very much be true. For now, I believe we're all in the dark on this topic.

We'll just have to wait and see.