Reading Excuses - 06/19/17 - Wisps of Aether - AetherRealm Ch 1 and 2

[Ace of Hearts]

Hey, everyone. This submission consists of the first two chapters of my first real novel AetherRealm. I'm definitely pretty new to this, so make of that what you will. These chapters set the stage for one of the POVs that we'll be seeing consistently throughout the novel. 

 

Summary: Teenage wanderers Hentaro and *Annabelle (I said Lyra in the email, but she's a different character) witness a surprise invasion of a small fishing town from a magical portal. They're captured and taken to General Kron, who notices Hentaro's magic powers and blackmails Hentaro into enlisting in the invading army. The entire town then enters the magical AetherRealm through a large portal.

 

I really wanted to get the story started off on a fast note since I had a feeling it would drag on longer than I wanted in later parts, so there's a lot of setting information crammed in here. As a result, I'm guessing that some sections will have too much show and not enough tell while others will be just plain confusing. I'm looking for where these sections are so that I can clean them up. 

 

It also would help a lot to say what does work for you in these chapters (there's got to be something... right?), and maybe what you would want to hear more about. I have a pretty good idea of where I want this story to go, so there's no real danger of messing up my plot with cool suggestions. 

 

And of course, you're welcome to point out anything else you see. 

 

Have a nice day.

[Ace of Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Wisps of Aether said:

some sections will have too much show and not enough tell

Er... meant to say some sections will have too much tell and not enough show. Whoops.

[rdpulfer]

- I like the opening and establishing the characters, but one character asking another "what do you want out of life" seems potentially a little too . . . maid-and-butlerish? Like it seems like a cheap way to introduce a character's motivations, especially so early on.

- The concept of the gates needs a little bit of work. It feels like the invasion happens way too soon - before the reader has got their bearing.

- I do like the overall plot - and especially how they are taken prisoner by a kid.

- Again, I like the idea of a reluctant magic enforcer and the characters. It feels like you are just rushing too quickly to get to the plot, and you might need a chapter or two to get readers familiar with just the basic before launching headlong into the plot. 

[industrialistDragon]

ch1

A good interesting start.  not all interesting starts have to be action-filled slugfests and you've got a nice little scene here. 

 

Not digging "psych" as a generic catchall curse word. 

 

"Let’s head into town" -- this is a great end-of-chapter line. the rest after it just feels superfluous. 

 

Overall: Both of the characters so far seem a little bland, but it is just the beginning.

 

I wonder at the use of a katana rather than a different kind of sword, since katanas invite all kinds of samurai, ninja, and weird oriental fetishistic tropes that, other than H's name and the aforementioned sword, seem to have very little to do with the rest of the setting or story. 

 

------------

ch2

 

"look"  is used 4 times in the first 3 sentences.... 

 

I kinda thought the two of them were staying in the town, or at least in the near vicinity since they were talking about selling crystals (or the inability to do so) in the area, so it seems odd that they're so very unfamiliar with the tower. (the inside i can understand, but the outside?)

 

"going to die soon, then let’s die sooner" ...... >_>; this is... not a great sentence formulation.

 

I'm confused. How did magicboy get a key to a place his army invaded/conquered AFTER he'd separated from the main group?  if the general was already ensconced in the tower, why did they need to "invade" the town in the first place? i'm assuming the tower is in the town (is the tower in the town?) 

 

Things are getting pretty abrupt here talking with the general. I don't have enough background to follow any of this. I really don't know enough about our protags and the relationship between them to be invested in their capture and/or potential use as hostages. I'm really feeling the lack of description, I have no grounding; these interesting little bits of plot are just untethered to anything and  floating away like bubbles and whenever I try to latch on to one they pop.

 

I don't understand the conscription at all. I feels like a really unsound decision. H is clearly antagonistic to the general, on basic principal to say nothing of the other stuff (i'm not sure what the other stuff is though), so why would the general turn around and go "you get to be sheriff here i'm not really going to monitor you either byeeeee?" 

 

Hanging a lampshade on the "girlfriend as hostage" trope does not in fact obviate the cringworthiness of the "girlfriend as hostage" trope... ( I mean, she is the girlfriend right? i'm assuming. But I could totes see them as brother-sister too)

 

Overall: I like the start of the story, but the left turn into the invasion is very confusing. There are a couple of places, especially in the second chapter that have distracting doubled words or unintentional alliteration, but technically this is a well done piece! It is probably a bit too dialogue-heavy, as you mentioned, but I think that's a very fixable issue. I would not have pegged H & A as itinerants from the text, and I am slightly worried about the use of anime-like names. It feels like a surface treatment and I think the story would be better served by making up an entirely new culture and naming system to go with the entirely new country names rather than falling back on stereotypes that are easy to misuse. As @rdpulfer said, I think the story is just jumping the gun a bit here, and giving the plot some more space to rev up will likely help a bunch. 

 

but overall I liked it and I want to see what happens next. keep going!

[kais]

Welcome back @Wisps of Aether!

 

Overall

A lot of potentially interesting things happened, but it felt like we were in the middle of a story, not the start. The events felt rushed and I didn't get a feeling for time, place, or the characters (most importantly). I'd suggest breaking the events apart into individual chapters and spending more time on the characters, their motivations, and the world. You start off with a very interesting premise in the crystal birth, but that never really gets explained, and no one really emotes over it, making it basically a non-event. You also have my spidey senses tingling on the girlfriend hostage motivation thing, which can slide reeeeeally easily into fridging. Please don't make us reset our counter. 

15 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

It feels like the invasion happens way too soon - before the reader has got their bearing.

I agree with this completely

15 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

It feels like you are just rushing too quickly to get to the plot, and you might need a chapter or two to get readers familiar with just the basic before launching headlong into the plot. 

Also this.

15 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

I don't have enough background to follow any of this. I really don't know enough about our protags and the relationship between them to be invested in their capture and/or potential use as hostages. I'm really feeling the lack of description, I have no grounding; these interesting little bits of plot are just untethered to anything and  floating away like bubbles and whenever I try to latch on to one they pop.

This gets to the heart of my confusion as well. I need more background, more relationship, more buy in, before I can care about what is happening.

Anyway, you have a solid foundation here, you just need to do some smoothing and fleshing out. Keep at it, and sub more!

 

As I go

- page two: so the crystals are...gall stones?

- page four: I'm not settling into the 'Hentaro gets agitated and everyone can sense his power' thing. It seems really plot convenient. 

- page five: We don't get an explanation for the gall stone crystal things and the bondage necklace? I'm left very confused by the first chapter, including why Hentaro so willingly goes with what appears to be an antagonist. I think we need more setup here. Perhaps focusing on just one event - the passing of the crystals, to better lay the foundation of this world

- page seven: 'wisps' is an overused word, currently. I've caught it three times already

- page eight: Annabelle seems to be kind of disassociated from...everything. She's being threatened and she's completely fine with it

- page 9: it's hard to care about Annabelle being a hostage since I don't yet care about Annabelle, or Hentaro. We need some emotional investment before stakes, otherwise the stakes don't mean anything

- page nine: what is 'uneven' wood?

- page 11: not really certain what 'power' is, in this world, so again, hard to connect here

[Mandamon]

I have a similar reaction to @rdpulfer, @industrialistDragon, and @kais. I liked the general idea, and the magic crystals, but I didn't feel a lot of connection to the characters, and didn't have enough of a sense of the setting to know why I should care about anything. There's a lot of explanation for things, but then no reaction from H and A. Like Kias says, it seems more like the middle of a story than the beginning.

Notes while reading:

Goes too much into philosophical discussions on first couple pages.

pg 2: “It’s not your fault that some people are too superstitious to buy glowing crystals."
--At this point, I have no indication what sort of place this is, or what the tech level is. I'm guessing fantasy world.

pg 3: "since apparently she was raised to lump some of the senses together to get five regular ones."
--awkward, and a bit of an infodump

pg 3: psyching or psychic?

pg 3: "Yes, the militaries of the world used gates..."
--this paragraph is very Maid and Butler

pg 4: "can’t imagine that Xirans friendly.”
--missing "are"

pg 4: "Apparently, their transparent skin was supposed to feel like silk."
--you've used "apparently" twice. It's a very vague word.

pg 5: "He stepped out of the way of the first soldier’s spear"
--did not catch that the soldier was this close.

pg 5: "exactly what he expected to hear"
--repetition

Chapter 1: I'm not hooked yet. There's the sort of interesting thing with the crystals, and then random soldiers attack, but I don't have any reason to care. A lot of the first chapter is taken up with H and A bantering back and forth, which builds character, but doesn't really draw me in.

pg 6: "You needed a general to invade a little town on the sea"
--I don't have any connection to the town, so I still don't care that much.

pg 6: "I just implied that I’m a Jasuran too."
--I don't have any context for why this is important

pg 7: "They probably want a Talented on their side"
--I need more information on why that's a problem.

pg 7: “You took us here as prisoners,” H said. “What makes you think that we want to join you?”
--yep. I don't have a reason to be concerned for the characters.

pg 8: "Don’t resist,” N said. “He wants you to fight back so that he has an excuse to do worse. Don’t let him get to you.”
--I think this is why I'm not engaged. Everything is talked through, which slows the tension down. I also don't know a lot about what's happening or what the stakes are.

pg 9: "What extreme times?"
--this does not help the tension. H and A seem bored by everything.

pg 9: "resisting the urge to knock over tables and chairs made of fancy, uneven wood."
--I haven't gotten a lot of emotion from any of the characters, so this seems out of place.

pg 10: “I’m glad that I still remember how to act scared, at least,”
--this...none of the characters seem to care what's happening.

pg 10: "“Oh,” A said, recoiling back. “The portal’s going to eat up the entire town.”
--this is least reaction I've ever seen from the demise of a village.

[Robinski]

Hey there! Great to have you back. On to the comments.

• I would use the character names more sparingly. In the second paragraph, you say Anna… 3 times, when one at least could (should) be ‘she’ – I think. Otherwise, it sounds so repetitive.
• I like the conflict early on, the fact that Anna is almost disgusted by the crystal.
• “I know that it takes a lot out of you.” – For me, this line is a bit ‘tell-y’. I know people say obvious stuff like that in the real world, but I'm reading to be entertained, and would prefer dialogue a bit less ‘on the nose’.
• “as she stared into the noon sun” – Hmm, suggests some superhuman power of some sort.
• Some of the tagging is confusing, like…

Annabelle looked away.

“It’s not your fault that some people are too superstitious to buy glowing crystals. We’ll make do with what we have.”

• The blocking throws me off a bit. The gateway is halfway to the town, far enough away that Hen can shout out loud and they don’t hear him, but when he attacks, he’s on top of the soldier almost instantly.
• I’m hoping, like most readers I'm sure, to be surprised and intrigued, on a fairly regular basis. I haven’t really been feeling that so far. The magic seems fairly standard, although I do like the selling of the crystals. The dialogue too has been a little staid, and a bit exposition-y. The first slight twist was the foreign soldiers not attacking the town, which was good, and then the boy being in charge.
• Also, they seem to go with the enemy rather easily. I'd like to see some frustration, or resignation.
• To me, the term “military fort” is redundant. All forts are military, surely.
• “Yes, Nar, Hen thought” – I don’t mind Hen underlining his words in thought, but him explaining what he thought, when I already understood it felt… unnecessary.
• “soft thuds on the stone stairs” – personally, this sounds more like walking on wooden boards to me. I would not expect stone to thud, but maybe to scuff or scratch, even tap.
• “And he comes from our home?” – is this a question? I don’t get it, surely the general knows where the boy came from better than Hen.

I like the ending, surprising but inevitable somehow and really quite dramatic. Also, there a decent mystery set up here as to why they want this particular town. This is something I want to know that answer to now, so that’s good.

I’m thinking that the piece in general could be ‘magnified’, I feel like there’s an emotional spark missing, the dialogue being a bit dry in places. But, there’s a nice tone and pace to, I thought. A though more descriptiveness in the work choice in places would give me more sense of place, I think.

Another part of it is the main characterisation, I think. Like I want to know something more about Hen and Anna, stuff that sets them apart from being standard heroic guy and gal. They some unflawed, and not afraid and really challenged by events so far. Anna’s problem with the crystals and her sharp words were a good start, but didn’t really continue into the piece.

Overall, I quite enjoyed it and would like to read more.

<R>

[Robinski]

On 20/06/2017 at 3:12 AM, Wisps of Aether said:

Teenage wanderers

I didn't get much sense of them being teens.

On 20/06/2017 at 3:12 AM, Wisps of Aether said:

get the story started off on a fast note

There was action, certainly, but 'fast' is not a word I would use to describe it. There was always something happening, so pacing was good, I thought, but 'fast' to me is breathless a chase across the dunes, something with a time-critical element in it.

On 20/06/2017 at 3:12 AM, Wisps of Aether said:

too much show and not enough tell

The other way around, I think...

Have a nice day yourself!  

[Robinski]

On 21/06/2017 at 0:46 AM, industrialistDragon said:

Not digging "psych" as a generic catchall curse word. 

I also didn't really like that. It's not harsh enough, and it already has a 'slang' usage - albeit outdated, I think.

[Ace of Hearts]

On 6/22/2017 at 11:39 PM, Robinski said:

I also didn't really like that. It's not harsh enough, and it already has a 'slang' usage - albeit outdated, I think.

Wait, it has another usage? *looks up word in the dictionary* Oh, that usage. Whoops.  For now, I'm going to roll with it.

On 6/21/2017 at 8:22 AM, kais said:

A lot of potentially interesting things happened, but it felt like we were in the middle of a story, not the start

Yeah, this is really good to hear. I heard everywhere that most early draft manuscripts take too much time to dive into the plot and that the first few chapters can usually be cut out, so I tried to skip right to the part where things are happening. I can see now that I may have gone a bit overboard with getting to the action. 

 

On 6/20/2017 at 4:46 PM, industrialistDragon said:

Hanging a lampshade on the "girlfriend as hostage" trope does not in fact obviate the cringworthiness of the "girlfriend as hostage" trope... ( I mean, she is the girlfriend right? i'm assuming. But I could totes see them as brother-sister too)

On 6/21/2017 at 8:22 AM, kais said:

- page eight: Annabelle seems to be kind of disassociated from...everything. She's being threatened and she's completely fine with it

Yeah, that's more or less intentional. It looks like I need to find a better way to portray it so that it feels meaningful.

On 6/21/2017 at 8:22 AM, kais said:

You also have my spidey senses tingling on the girlfriend hostage motivation thing, which can slide reeeeeally easily into fridging

This was definitely a struggle for me, mostly because Ann already feels like she lacks power or control over her life. It's not a great place to be in, and she was super uncomfortable to write.  

On 6/20/2017 at 4:46 PM, industrialistDragon said:

I would not have pegged H & A as itinerants from the text, and I am slightly worried about the use of anime-like names

Anime-like names? Uhh... Is this something else I have to look up to make sure I'm not sending across the wrong message? I just found out recently that one of the characters from another book I'm writing shares a name with a character from Overwatch.

On 6/22/2017 at 11:34 PM, Robinski said:

Another part of it is the main characterisation, I think. Like I want to know something more about Hen and Anna, stuff that sets them apart from being standard heroic guy and gal. They some unflawed, and not afraid and really challenged by events so far. Anna’s problem with the crystals and her sharp words were a good start, but didn’t really continue into the piece.

Yeah. I definitely need to think about adding in more early characterization. Ann has some serious problems at the get-go with excessive detachment, but from what I'm gathering it seems to come of as being bland, or appearing to be a problem with how I portray her. 

On 6/20/2017 at 4:46 PM, industrialistDragon said:

Hanging a lampshade on the "girlfriend as hostage" trope does not in fact obviate the cringworthiness of the "girlfriend as hostage" trope... ( I mean, she is the girlfriend right? i'm assuming. But I could totes see them as brother-sister too)

Not brother/sister (they come from pretty different backgrounds) and not really romantically connected, either. They're just... travelling together. But romance or not, they're definitely close. If it's that bad, I could look into another motive/role for Hen and Ann. It was harder for me to fit them into the plot since when I wrote them all Hen seemed to want to do was run away and never deal with any of this mess again while Ann didn't seem to care a lot either way.  I'm hoping that the other PoV will feel more natural. Although that one might have problems with being generic.  

 

On 6/21/2017 at 8:38 AM, Mandamon said:

Goes too much into philosophical discussions on first couple pages.

Yep, that's my writing if I've ever seen it.  And none of it's ever as interesting as I think it's going to be when I'm first writing it. 

 

On 6/22/2017 at 11:38 PM, Robinski said:

I didn't get much sense of them being teens.

 Huh. I assumed that it would just come off that way naturally because I was 18 when I wrote this. I'm... not really sure what to do now.  Hopefully it comes out more in later chapters. 

Well, I'm glad to hear that everyone liked the chapters.  There's a lot more where this came from, so I'll definitely keep subbing. Sorry for jumping around and hitting all of your comments randomly. I get pretty nervous when I'm reading critiques, so I don't think I would have been able to organize my thoughts much better than this anyway.  Next week, I'll at least try to hit everyone's points in separate messages. 

Thank you everyone who left a critique. Have a great day.  

[Robinski]

55 minutes ago, Wisps of Aether said:

Although that one might have problems with being generic.

I try to give my characters one dominant trait that marks them apart, that tends to drive everything else, inform their reactions to everything and everyone, and thereafter gives the reader something to latch onto that makes your m/c more clearly identifiable. Qrk is somewhat pretentious, but has the sophistication and intellect to back it up. Admitting that I have some work to do an character consistency in TMM, that then gives him a clear through line. Ann did have a kind of angry/frustrated detachment, I thought I sensed, although it wasn't heavily played, but Hen's reactions were much more predictable man-with-sword.

There are any number of things that you could consider. Not knowing where the story is going, but to throw out some random thoughts:

- make him blind in one eye; give him inner fear that he needs to conquer to do the right things; make him a cripple (I know these things have been done, but guaranteed your take on them is unlikely to be quite the same as known instances); maybe he's not actually that good with a sword - that would be a challenge to write, but could be really interesting; maybe he's deaf or dumb - I know that becomes a dominant factor in his scenes but, if he's not the only POV, it might be an interesting challenge. It would also make Ann have to 'work harder' in their scenes, which would bring her character out more.

Just some random thoughts, to try to illustrate the importance, I think, of having characters that stand out. If they don't, I think they need to be doing something really, really interesting, and work so much harder to hold the readers' attention.

1 hour ago, Wisps of Aether said:

'm... not really sure what to do now. 

You could have a thought from one or both about a parent, or young sibling. Or, you could drop a comment about it being the first (or second) time that Ann had 'dropped' crystals. There will be things that they haven't done before or places they haven't seen or have only seen one in their relatively short lives. It's not that hard to drop little clues. Or, you could have the POV character just come out a describe something in the other character, like Hen describing Ann still being marked with the lithe elegance of youth; not yet having reached the full flush of womanhood. Or, if we're in Ann's POV, Hen might be a year or two short of his full hight, or be lacking the hard edges that full adulthood brings... Urg, this is off-the-cuff of courser, and straight from Mills & Boon's big book of fromage, but hopefully you see what I mean.

1 hour ago, Wisps of Aether said:

Hopefully it comes out more in later chapters. 

I think it's really important to get it established right at the start. I think it would be bad to find out that they're teens on Page 84, when the reader's been thinking these two characters are in their late 20's / early 30's for quarter of the book.

[industrialistDragon]

8 hours ago, Wisps of Aether said:

Anime-like names? Uhh... Is this something else I have to look up to make sure I'm not sending across the wrong message?

Possibly. Anime is, of course, animation from Japan, and it has its own set of cultural stereotypes and tropes baked in to it that're different from Western ones. The point I was getting at was that the use of specifically a "katana" along with the vaguely-japanese names, plus the generic fantasyland setting makes this feel to me like an anime. I did a light run through TVTropes and these are the ones that look like they'd apply here:

(standard TVtropes disclaimer: TVtrope is a sucking black hole of the internet and will devour all of your free time. Use with caution!)

Ghibli Hills in Hollywood Medieval Japan

A Protagonist is Ryu

Rei Ananami Expy edging into a possible Phlembotinum Girl (and, honestly, you have The Smurfette Principle going on right now, but I'm willing to withhold final judgment on that until I see a few more chapters. Two chapters just isn't a whole lot of room)

Katanas are Just Better (which is the only reason I can think of for their use, since IRL there are tons of better behaving, more interesting swords out there in the world, including other swords from Japan)

The young magic user's combination of friendly evilness and lack of description except for his similar age to the hero and name (which I *think* is a usually-female name. I think. Maybe?) puts him for me into the Rival role, and, when I pair that with "magic user" and the rest of the vibe from the piece, I get a pretty typical white-haired Bishounen role. 

When there is a dearth of in-story descriptions, readers will use the tropes they're familiar with to fill in the gaps. The thing to remember here is that Tropes Are Not Inherently Bad. They're also not inherently GOOD, either. They're tools, and shorthand, and some are far more problematic than others. They can be deliciously subverted, or comfortingly met. They can be horrifically overused and terribly written, too. Any way they are used, though, the author should be aware of them in the work. Is this what you intended with the piece? Is your story best served by these tropes, or would others do what you want better, with less (or at least, different) baggage?

[Ace of Hearts]

7 hours ago, Robinski said:

I think it's really important to get it established right at the start. I think it would be bad to find out that they're teens on Page 84, when the reader's been thinking these two characters are in their late 20's / early 30's for quarter of the book.

Yeah, I think I'm aware of how important the early chapters are. I'm definitely planning to give the beginning a pretty massive rewrite at some point. I just hope I don't have to fundamentally change a lot of the way that the characters act throughout the entire book. 

7 hours ago, Robinski said:

Ann did have a kind of angry/frustrated detachment, I thought I sensed, although it wasn't heavily played, but Hen's reactions were much more predictable man-with-sword.

It's actually pretty hard for me to write characters with real weaknesses because most of my characters are like me in some way or another and I've kind of coasted through life so far. Thanks for your suggestions.  I think there's some internal conflict I could establish in Hentaro early on, but I do need to think more about actual weaknesses for my characters. 

8 hours ago, Robinski said:

Just some random thoughts, to try to illustrate the importance, I think, of having characters that stand out. If they don't, I think they need to be doing something really, really interesting, and work so much harder to hold the readers' attention.

Right. I can't let my characters be just okay. If I want someone random a thousand miles away to actually read this thing when they don't know me at all, I need to make my characters awesome.  Now to work on actually doing that. 

8 hours ago, Robinski said:

You could have a thought from one or both about a parent, or young sibling. Or, you could drop a comment about it being the first (or second) time that Ann had 'dropped' crystals. There will be things that they haven't done before or places they haven't seen or have only seen one in their relatively short lives. It's not that hard to drop little clues. Or, you could have the POV character just come out a describe something in the other character, like Hen describing Ann still being marked with the lithe elegance of youth; not yet having reached the full flush of womanhood. Or, if we're in Ann's POV, Hen might be a year or two short of his full hight, or be lacking the hard edges that full adulthood brings... Urg, this is off-the-cuff of courser, and straight from Mills & Boon's big book of fromage, but hopefully you see what I mean.

Hmm, yeah, I'll definitely take a look at it. You're right, it shouldn't be hard. I'm probably going to rewrite the first few chapters (maybe multiple times), so I'll keep that in mind while doing so.

 

 

[Ace of Hearts]

40 minutes ago, industrialistDragon said:

Rei Ananami Expy edging into a possible Phlembotinum Girl 

Oh wow. I had no idea these were tropes, and I do think that Annabelle cuts close to these (in these chapters and in later ones). In fact, she seems to exhibit a lot of the telling qualities of both. D: Welp, thanks for letting me know. 

51 minutes ago, industrialistDragon said:

I did a light run through TVTropes and these are the ones that look like they'd apply here:

I know this is out of order, but if this is a light run for you then I kind of want to see a heavy run. This seems super comprehensive to me haha.  

53 minutes ago, industrialistDragon said:

Katanas are Just Better (which is the only reason I can think of for their use, since IRL there are tons of better behaving, more interesting swords out there in the world, including other swords from Japan)

Ooh, that's a lot of swords. Shiny. The only other one I've heard of before is the wakizashi, and that's probably because it goes with the katana. I just thought dual-wielding katana and wakizashi from d&d was super cool (even though the samurai class in d&d is actually terrible) so I decided to have Hen know how to use them. But I guess d&d is full of tropes as well. 

But weapon choice isn't really a big focus in this story, so I don't know how much time I want to devote to picking cool swords for my characters. Most of the weapons are generalized, so maybe I could generalize Hen's sword as well. It just felt like an easy starting point since everyone knows what a katana is. 

1 hour ago, industrialistDragon said:

A Protagonist is Ryu

Yeah, this feels a bit like Hen, and maybe even more like the second protag coming next chapter. Who knew that anime had already stolen all of my great ideas? 

...Yeah, I'll keep a lookout for this.  

1 hour ago, industrialistDragon said:

The young magic user's combination of friendly evilness and lack of description except for his similar age to the hero and name (which I *think* is a usually-female name. I think. Maybe?) puts him for me into the Rival role, and, when I pair that with "magic user" and the rest of the vibe from the piece, I get a pretty typical white-haired Bishounen role. 

Ah, I can work on descriptions for Naru. Is that normally a female name? I just thought it sounded cool.  I think he fits into the friendly evilness category minus the fact that I don't really consider him to be really evil. He's kind of just doing his job. But if he comes off that way, it's good to know. 

1 hour ago, industrialistDragon said:

When there is a dearth of in-story descriptions, readers will use the tropes they're familiar with to fill in the gaps. The thing to remember here is that Tropes Are Not Inherently Bad. They're also not inherently GOOD, either. They're tools, and shorthand, and some are far more problematic than others. They can be deliciously subverted, or comfortingly met. They can be horrifically overused and terribly written, too. Any way they are used, though, the author should be aware of them in the work. Is this what you intended with the piece? Is your story best served by these tropes, or would others do what you want better, with less (or at least, different) baggage?

Yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned this because I definitely feel like some of the tropes in my work are more problematic than others. Annabelle's been difficult to write and it makes sense that her tropes might take away from her character a bit, but I think for now I can work with Hen and Naru. 

And in retrospect, it makes sense that my story comes off as being anime-esque. Xira is supposed to feel vaguely Asian while Jasuro is supposed to feel vaguely European. But I've never been to either of those places, so I'm doing the best I can. And so far, it seems like that means relying on some pretty well-established stereotypes. Although it's interesting that everyone comes across as being Japanese because Naru's really the only one in the story who comes from the equivalent of Japan. I was actually worried more about the other extreme that I had lumped everything into one big "Asian" category (and in a way, I definitely did). As always, I'll make sure to take a look.

1 hour ago, industrialistDragon said:

puts him for me into the Rival role

Ah. After reading that piece, I think there's a very clear rivalry that pops up later in my story, and it's not between Naru and Hen. I'm guessing you'll notice it when it happens.  

 

[Ace of Hearts]

Uh, @kais @Mandamon @Robinski @industrialistDragon @rdpulfer, sorry to bug you all, but I came up with an idea for Ann and I was thinking I should definitely bounce it off of people. 

Ann's detachment is something that I really want to emphasize in the early chapters (and throughout the story), but I don't think it came off the way I wanted it to in these first few intro chapters. I was thinking that I could make Ann's detachment more kinda zen spiritual (not in terms of the literal Buddhist practices, but something along those lines), which would give off less of a victimized impression while still letting her be oddly calm with all the terrible things going on. I think it could also be a more interesting take on Ann's character in general. There's definitely a lot going on in Annabelle's mind that she's not showing, but since we're not really going to see into her mind I think it would be more interesting to mask her feelings with meditation rather than having her just appear kind of odd.

Thoughts?

Also when you're editing a longer story, do you tend to work ahead based on the feedback you've received? If you were in my place, would you begin to edit later chapters based on the feedback in these chapters, or would you wait and see what people have to say about everything in the story?

Thanks and have a great day.  

[industrialistDragon]

45 minutes ago, Wisps of Aether said:

But I guess d&d is full of tropes as well. 

YES. IT IS. Tropes that were kind of dated and cringeworthy in the '70s when it first came out and have progressed to today largely unexamined. Be very careful pulling from D&D. While it can be a great jumping-off point for stories, it is also riddled with pitfalls if used without adequate examination. 

49 minutes ago, Wisps of Aether said:

Most of the weapons are generalized, so maybe I could generalize Hen's sword as well.

This would help bunches to avoid a lot of the associations specifically tied to katanas, that I doubt are what you're looking for in the work.

 

51 minutes ago, Wisps of Aether said:

I was actually worried more about the other extreme that I had lumped everything into one big "Asian" category (and in a way, I definitely did)

"generic Asian land" comes off as primarily Japanese to a lot of Westerners for Important Historical Reasons, and also for the more prosaic reason that other Asian countries haven't exported their media (comics, novels, and TV shows (though k-dramas are getting pretty popular nowadays)) as heavily as Japan has done, and so haven't had either the length of time or saturation level to get really ground into the cultural zeitgeist. If you're looking to base a secondary world country on an existing country, I would highly recommend picking up at least a "history in a nutshell" type of book on the country AND an etiquette book on the country so you can get an idea of how things actually work. Also, just putting this out there, but there are a lot of "asian" countries with rich cultures and histories that aren't Japan or China! If you do a bit of digging, you might find all or part of somewhere else that fits your ideas better than "generic asian land" does. There's a lot of world history to look through and it's all full of great story ideas. 

47 minutes ago, Wisps of Aether said:

definitely a lot going on in Annabelle's mind that she's not showing

Then show it! I would MUCH rather see/hear/read about Annabelle's ACTUAL issues than have her pretend to be pseudoreligious and hide it. It would be much more interesting to see her reacting to things, working through them, trying to hide them and failing like people do when they try to hide things, whatever, even if it's not from her POV. If Hen's been traveling with her for some time, he's certainly been picking up on things about her, making assumptions about her (rightly or wrongly), and teasing her story from her over the long walks to where-ever-it-is they're going. Working out how to show what's up with Anabelle without either annabelle or Hen just outright SAYING it might be more difficult to write, but it will be a much more interesting read and will go farther in differentiating your characters from their archetypes than simply subbing in more archetypes (like being all Zen) would. 

[rdpulfer]

- I'm not sure I like the idea of detachment. Personally, it feels kind of boring. After all, if a character doesn't seem to care about what's happening, why would we? Also, the spiritual aspect is a bit troubling. It feels like a stereotype. It feels more realistic if there was something in her past that made her act this way - that even her friend doesn't fully know about. That could be interesting, but requires a lot of character development to explore.

- Personally, I wait until all the edits are in before I start. I figure this is best since I'm not sure what ripple effect an edit might have. I just use this opportunity to think about how to fix the problems and what future consequences they might have.

[kais]

On 6/25/2017 at 11:22 AM, Wisps of Aether said:

do you tend to work ahead based on the feedback you've received?

Yup! Otherwise I have to sub the whole thing again. I like to fix as I go, but this is very much personal preference.