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Shardblades and eye color


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If a darkeyes bonds a Shardblade, turns lighteyed, and then somehow loses possession of the blade, would his eyes turn dark again? What if he becomes a KR and trades his dead blade for a live spren, do his eyes stay light all the time or

Spoiler

change like Kaladin's*? 

*I've been mostly avoiding Oathbringer spoilers, but I couldn't resist reading that one chapter about his trip to Hearthstone. Ah need ma Kaladin fix!

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I don't really have any WoBs for support here, but what's seen in the book is that the eyecolor change from a dead blade is a permanent thing and passes on to the children. Those who took up the blades in the past are the ancestors of current day lighteyes.

The living blades enact a much more noticeable effect while surgebinding is actively being used. This leaves a residual effect that resembles a deadblade's change, but fades after a few hours. 

I don't believe there is any evidence either way of a darkeyes losing their blade having their eyes revert, but the fact that the change is passed down to children who don't have their own blade seems to show a permanent change. 

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Spoiler

In the Oathbringer chapter with Kaladin his eyes return to a darker color after not having Stormlight for a while. But because the lighteyeness is permanent and passed on I would assume their eye color would change from whatever color their order is back to the lighteye color their dead shardblade granted them after not having stormlight for a while  

 

Edited by ANRILU
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This is an aside, but also related to Shardblades and eye color. We know that Shardplate of each KR order glows a different color, does this hold true with the eyes as well? The only info I've seen so far is Kaladins eye change from dark brown to light blue.

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3 hours ago, Kered said:

This is an aside, but also related to Shardblades and eye color. We know that Shardplate of each KR order glows a different color, does this hold true with the eyes as well? The only info I've seen so far is Kaladins eye change from dark brown to light blue.

In Dalinar's flashback involving the Midnight Essence I believe we see two Radiants, of different Orders, and their eye color matches the color of their armor. I think each Knight's eyes glow the color of their order. i.e. All Windrunners will have blue eyes while using Stormlight, all Stonewards will have, erm, tan (?) eyes, and so forth.

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8 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

In Dalinar's flashback involving the Midnight Essence I believe we see two Radiants, of different Orders, and their eye color matches the color of their armor. I think each Knight's eyes glow the color of their order. i.e. All Windrunners will have blue eyes while using Stormlight, all Stonewards will have, erm, tan (?) eyes, and so forth.

Ahh, I forgot about that sequence. Wonder if that the color gets passed down and not just having light eyes of any color. Be a fun way to trace some of the characters lineage back to the orders. 

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17 minutes ago, Kered said:

Ahh, I forgot about that sequence. Wonder if that the color gets passed down and not just having light eyes of any color. Be a fun way to trace some of the characters lineage back to the orders. 

Not quite. We could trace back to what type of spren the blade that their bloodline first held was. 

The Knights themselves had eyes that reverted without Stormlight use (unless they had lighteyes to begin with, but that's a whole can of worms). The permanent change is a product of dead blades. 

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Just now, Calderis said:

Not quite. We could trace back to what type of spren the blade that their bloodline first held was. 

The Knights themselves had eyes that reverted without Stormlight use (unless they had lighteyes to begin with, but that's a whole can of worms). The permanent change is a product of dead blades. 

Another of Kered's ideas sputters and dies. 

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21 hours ago, Kered said:

Wonder if that the color gets passed down and not just having light eyes of any color. Be a fun way to trace some of the characters lineage back to the orders. 

You may be on to something here anyway, regarding lineage of family blades perhaps. Do we know if Lighteye's eyes change color when they get a blade?(Sadeas when he got Dalinar's blade would be a good example)

Quote

                                Brightlord Kholin - ??    -------     Brightlady Kholin - ??
Lady Kholin - ??    -------    Dalinar - blue?*  ---||---     Gavilar - light green    -------    Navani - violet?*
 Renarin - blue?    ---||---    Adolin - blue                    Elhokar - light green    ---||---    Jasnah - pale violet


* Sheep and Exmakina draw Dalinar with blue eyes, and draw Navani with violet eyes, but the wiki has nothing.

Shallan is the only one of her family that the wiki gives an eye color, which is blue. This means that we only have one family tree to use as evidence for/against this theory.

Edit: There may actually be some precedence for eye color being passed down in paternal/maternal genes, which would be.. very strange

Edited by The One Who Connects
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On 6/10/2017 at 11:27 AM, Calderis said:

I don't really have any WoBs for support here, but what's seen in the book is that the eyecolor change from a dead blade is a permanent thing and passes on to the children. Those who took up the blades in the past are the ancestors of current day lighteyes.

The living blades enact a much more noticeable effect while surgebinding is actively being used. This leaves a residual effect that resembles a deadblade's change, but fades after a few hours. 

I don't believe there is any evidence either way of a darkeyes losing their blade having their eyes revert, but the fact that the change is passed down to children who don't have their own blade seems to show a permanent change. 

To be fair (or nitpicky, rather, if you prefer), I don't think we technically know any of this.  We know that the lighteyed "gene" got into the Roshar population somehow, but the precise mechanism is unclear.  The modern-day lighteyes might as easily be descendants of Radiants as descendants of those who took up the dead Blades.

It's also possible, as far as we know, that the amount of time a darkeyed Rosharan's eyes spend in the lighteyed spectrum after bonding a blade and/or spren depends on the number of oaths the Radiant has spoken.  It seems possible that as Kaladin swears more oaths, his eyes will become bluer for longer, with permanent blueness coming after the final oath.

Personally, my money's on Moash's eyes reverting if he loses his blade, but I don't think we know enough to say.  It's also possible (though I think it unlikely) that if Moash had bonded a different Blade, his eyes might not have changed.  We really just don't know enough to say for sure.  In each case, darkeyed becoming Radiant and darkeyed bonding a Blade, we have literally a sample size of one.  (With, technically, the exception of Lift.  But I don't recall her eye color being explicitly mentioned in Edgedancer.)

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@galendo you're totally right. I'm operating under a lot of assumptions that I shouldn't be stating as fact. I apologize for that. The things you point out are valid and could change things completely. 

That said, for the time being, my opinion is as stated 

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15 hours ago, Kered said:

Ahh, I forgot about that sequence. Wonder if that the color gets passed down and not just having light eyes of any color. Be a fun way to trace some of the characters lineage back to the orders. 

Couldn't trace it like that even if you wanted. Dalinar, Gavilar, Elhokar, Adolin, and Jasnah all have different eye color. We've got green, blue, yellow, and violet between them; all of them closely related.

Whatever Investiture wonky-ness caused the Lighteye caste, isn't handled/passed on in a strictly hereditary sense, at least as we know it IRL

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On 6/15/2017 at 1:15 PM, CaptainRyan said:

In Dalinar's flashback involving the Midnight Essence I believe we see two Radiants, of different Orders, and their eye color matches the color of their armor. I think each Knight's eyes glow the color of their order. i.e. All Windrunners will have blue eyes while using Stormlight, all Stonewards will have, erm, tan (?) eyes, and so forth.

So the Dustbringers had red eyes- no wonder superstitious people mixed them up with Voidbringers.

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5 hours ago, DocHoliday said:

Couldn't trace it like that even if you wanted. Dalinar, Gavilar, Elhokar, Adolin, and Jasnah all have different eye color. We've got green, blue, yellow, and violet between them; all of them closely related.

Whatever Investiture wonky-ness caused the Lighteye caste, isn't handled/passed on in a strictly hereditary sense, at least as we know it IRL

You should look at the mini family tree I did for the Kholins a few posts up. There is definitely some manner of hereditary-ness to it when viewed like that.

Also, who has yellow eyes? Per the Coppermind: Gavilar and Elhokar are both pale green, Jasnah has violet and Adolin has blue. Dalinar's aren't stated in the wiki, but fanart has his as blue. I don't actually remember any yellow in their family line(or at all, but I haven't read through the books in a while)

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38 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

You should look at the mini family tree I did for the Kholins a few posts up. There is definitely some manner of hereditary-ness to it when viewed like that.

Also, who has yellow eyes? Per the Coppermind: Gavilar and Elhokar are both pale green, Jasnah has violet and Adolin has blue. Dalinar's aren't stated in the wiki, but fanart has his as blue. I don't actually remember any yellow in their family line(or at all, but I haven't read through the books in a while)

I may be misremembering, but didn't Amaram have yellow eyes? 

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Huh... I just did a search for yellow eyes in my kindle copy of tWoK and got this. 

Ch. 12 Unity

Quote

The king beamed. His golden Shardplate gleamed in the noonday sun; he had his faceplate up, revealing light yellow eyes, a strong nose, and a clean-shaven face that was almost too handsome, with its full lips, broad forehead, and firm chin. Gavilar had looked like that too, before he’d suffered a broken nose and that terrible scar on his chin.

It was the only result. 

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48 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

You should look at the mini family tree I did for the Kholins a few posts up. There is definitely some manner of hereditary-ness to it when viewed like that.

Also, who has yellow eyes? Per the Coppermind: Gavilar and Elhokar are both pale green, Jasnah has violet and Adolin has blue. Dalinar's aren't stated in the wiki, but fanart has his as blue. I don't actually remember any yellow in their family line(or at all, but I haven't read through the books in a while)

Elhokar has yellow eyes per p.188 WoK.

Dalinar, also I admit, has no definitive eye color as of yet; BUT we have stronger reason to believe they'll be changing to whatever color a Bondsmith gem is.

I made a point of studying eye color trying to prove a different thread lol

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2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Huh... I just did a search for yellow eyes in my kindle copy of tWoK and got this. 

Ch. 12 Unity

It was the only result. 

Just now, DocHoliday said:

Elhokar has yellow eyes per p.188 WoK.

Dalinar, also I admit, has no definitive eye color as of yet; BUT we have stronger reason to believe they'll be changing to whatever color a Bondsmith gem is.

I made a point of studying eye color trying to prove a different thread lol

No longer canon.

Quote

Footnotes

  1. In The Way of Kings Elhokar is described as having yellow eyes. For Words of Radiance however Brandon changes them to green, so that they would match the color of Gavilar's to emphasize the family resemblance between father and son.

I was quite surprised that Dalinar apparently doesn't have an established eye color, given how storming important to the story he's been so far

Now I'm curious what other thread has been discussing eye color.. :)


Anyway, I checked the Wiki. This is the sum of who has an established Lighteye Color:

  • Gavilar & Elhokar, Jakamav - pale green
  • Jasnah - pale violet
  • Shallan, Highprince Ruthar, Adolin - blue
  • Highprince Vamah - light grey
  • Amaram, Moash - light tan(Moash went from brown to light tan)

Navani's fanart has violet eyes, matching her daughter Jasnah, but the wiki doesn't explicitly say. Renarin has a citation needed for his eyes being blue.

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Dalinar has blue eyes

Quote

Dalinar Kholin was going mad. Whenever a highstorm came, he fell to the floor and began to shake. Then he began raving in gibberish. Often, he’d stand, blue eyes delusional and wild, swinging and flailing. Adolin had to restrain him lest he hurt himself or others.

I made a list of the eye color of every character mentioned in both books. I need to do some cross checking for any anomalies. one significant one seems to be this

Quote

Dalinar gritted his teeth. “I do this for you, Elhokar.” Elhokar met his eyes for a moment, and his blue eyes flashed with suspicion again, as they had the week before. Blood of my fathers! Dalinar thought. He’s getting worse.

I know about the yellow eyes correction but blue??

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On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 3:15 AM, CaptainRyan said:

In Dalinar's flashback involving the Midnight Essence I believe we see two Radiants, of different Orders, and their eye color matches the color of their armor. I think each Knight's eyes glow the color of their order. i.e. All Windrunners will have blue eyes while using Stormlight, all Stonewards will have, erm, tan (?) eyes, and so forth.

one of my questions that was answered today was, 'for darkeyed people that bond shardblades, does the new eye color correspond to the specific type of shardblade that was bonded?' And I got a solid yes. I didn't have time to ask about inheritance patterns though.

Edited by Darkness
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13 hours ago, DocHoliday said:

Elhokar has yellow eyes per p.188 WoK.

Dalinar, also I admit, has no definitive eye color as of yet; BUT we have stronger reason to believe they'll be changing to whatever color a Bondsmith gem is.

I made a point of studying eye color trying to prove a different thread lol

Elhokar's eyes color changed in WoR: Brandon wanted to make them the same color as Gavilar. It is one discontinuity element we are aware of.

11 hours ago, Extesian said:

Dalinar has blue eyes

Oh great, I had wondered about his eye color and I couldn't find a reference. I wonder if they are light blue like Adolin or just blue.

11 hours ago, Extesian said:

I know about the yellow eyes correction but blue??

That's probably a typo. Brandon commented on Elhokar's eyes in the past.

6 hours ago, Darkness said:

one of my questions that was answered today was, 'for darkeyed people that bond shardblades, does the new eye color correspond to the specific type of shardblade that was bonded?' And I got a solid yes. I didn't have time to ask about inheritance patterns though.

Great, this means the Kholin's bloodline has Windrunners, Truthwatchers within their line. Also since colors probably mixes themselves up, there may even be some Edgedacners at some point to account for Adolin's light blue eyes.

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