Unmaking the Canon - a resource for theorists

[+Extesian]

I want to set up a new topic for one purpose (though with several dimensions) - material that is falsely believed to be authoritative. If people find this useful I hope it will be a general resource for people researching WoBs and theories, as others add to it. This can also be used to propose ideas you think are wrong, but please try to research thoroughly first so we mainly deal with likely problems here. I can think of four categories to include. I've spoilered each summary for length. 

1. Terminology that is widely used but is no longer, or not yet, canon

Fullborn

Spoiler

Chaos mentioned that Fullborn, the name given to someone with full allomantic and feruchemical powers, is not actually in the books. It was a fan invention (from fan-fic I believe). 

However, there is this link with Brandon saying "I think Bolas is more powerful in his realm and continuity than your average fullborn is" but that was on Reddit in response to a question that used the term Fullborn.

So it may end up being canonized or changed, just be aware it is not canon

Intent (/Mandate)

Spoiler

So turns out Intent, the flavor of a Shard (Honor, Preservation etc) is not a canon term. Nor is Mandate. So don't capitalize intent or Chaos will act swiftly and ruthlessly.

Mistpoint

Spoiler

Invented by Oversleep, this is not a canon term (though it’s pretty good).

Shardpool

Spoiler

This was a fan invention, but Brandon prefers and uses perpendicularity (which is canon).

Shardholder

Spoiler

Another early fan invention, this was often confused with Shardbearer; the canon term for someone who holds the power of a Shard is Vessel.

2. Matters that people keep referring to as according to WoB, but no one can ever find the WoB they're thinking of and, after extensive research, the community decides it was a mistaken belief.

Does a Shard automatically splinter when its Vessel dies

Spoiler

 

I had this in my head canon for ages, but in response to some discussions, and Oversleep asking on the WoB Stack Exchange, and further research by a number of people, Blightsong said there was a conversation on Discord where people agreed the existence of such a WoB was imagined. As far as we now know, there is no such WoB, only that a Shard will seek a new vessel or develop sentience if the Vessel dies, not splinter. (Note that I do not use Discord so I can only go by Blightsong's report, but that was my firm belief after researching myself).

There was a Brandon Friday FAQ that said a Shard can be voluntarily dropped and then it could splinter into something like spren/seons, or it could become a large self-aware entity like the Stormfather, or something not truly individual but proto-self aware like the unmade, or something like the Dor, or other possibilities depending on other factors. 

While the situation may be different for the Vessel dying (that could be an 'other factor'), it lends weight you the idea that a Shard can automatically splinter, but can also do many other things instead

 

Belief that you cannot use hemalurgy to steal Breath

Spoiler

 

Apparently it was once believed (widely or not, I'm not sure) that you could not spike out Breath. We have conflicting WoBs it seems. here is one that indicates it can be, but here is one that indicates (I think more strongly) that it cannot, due to it being Physical rather than Spiritual (but noting that a Divine Breath may be different as it affixes to the soul).

Spoiler

Questioner: With spikes, would you be able to actually transfer Breaths when they get to the other planets?

Brandon: So, spikes rip off pieces of the soul, and so Breaths are not going to be part of the soul.  You could maybe get a divine Breath, but I haven’t really decided on regular Breaths, they’re kind of stuck there in the Physical Realm, which is not something the spikes are dealing with.  Divine Breath potentially, because that’s like something that’s actually melding on to your soul

However, the newest one is from the Ad Astra signing, where @Shardneedle asked this 

Spoiler

Questioner

Do priests use-- to extract the Divine Breath and hoard-- *interruption* Do they use a sharp object to get the Divine Breath and hoard from the God King?

Brandon Sanderson

The Divine Breath what?

Questioner

Divine Breath and hoard. Can you get it away from him by using a sharp pointy object?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, the-- like you're asking like--

Questioner

Hemalurgy as an option.

Brandon Sanderson

It is not, but that's a good question. That is a really good question. I'm surprised no one's asked me that before.

"Not an option" could mean that the priests couldn't do it, or that hemalurgy isn't an option at all. But the evidence is increasingly towards neither Breaths nor Divine Breaths being hemalurgically-obtainable.

 

Lerasium is green

Spoiler

Pagerunner has found word-of-mouth going back to the TWG that Lerasium is Green, but  is not sure where it originally came from. It is depicted as gold on the Allomantic Table of Elements so this idea seems to be wrong

We will see a new Windrunner in Oathbringer

Spoiler

This has come up quite a few times, that we will see a new Windrunner in Oathbringer. This seems to be a misunderstanding based on this WoB, which confirms we will see one, but does not confirm when. PR has also indicated some people have conflated this with a WoB about seeing Drehy's partner in Oathbringer.

3. WoBs that turn out (either by subsequent WoB, canon material or general agreement) to be wrong - either because of a misunderstanding or the old WoB was misleading (e.g. paraphrased)

"It will form a bridge" - is the Diagram reference in WoR Ch 89 epigraph, to a Parshedi forming a bridge, metaphorical or magical?

Spoiler

 

Now this is not one that I've seen disproven, but there are a number of people certain there is a WoB confirming it is a 'real' (magical or metaphysical) bridge. Usually theorized to let Odium/his spren escape Braize, but could be anything. BUT we have this WoP from 2015

Quote

Peter

This is a metaphorical bridge. Basically, the Diagram says it would be super dangerous for their plans if one of the Parshendi formed a Radiant spren bond and became a Radiant. They would be able to bridge the gap between the cultures and throw a wrench into the sequence of events that the Diagram thinks needs to take place.

Now I don't like this answer, and many Sharders are certain it's wrong. But I've seen nothing superseding it. So this would be the second category of 'mistakes'.

Note that there will be the most in this category as some very old WoBs have clearly changed with his development of the stories. The more we can catch, the better.

 

Does Hoid use Feruchemical luck to be where he needs to be

Spoiler

There is a 2013 WoB here that said Hoid uses feruchemy to be where he needs to be, but it is old and paraphrased. There have been multiple WoBs since confirming that he has used alomancy, when people have asked about the lerasium bead. However the wording is always cagey and, as Argent has pointed out, all we know is that he has lerasium and has used allomancy. We do not know he has feruchemy, and we do not even know for certain he used lerasium to become an allomancer (though that seems the most likely scenario. We do know that Hoid uses a similar concept to fortune to be where he needs to be, but it may be from a different system. At the least he's not confirmed any more to be a feruchemist.

4. Canon material or WoBs that Brandon has consciously, publicly changed

Savants

Spoiler

 

As Argent found out, Brandon is revising the whole concept of savanthood and the interplay with allomantic resonance. Below is the exchange between him and Brandon, spoilered for size.

Spoiler

/u/ArgentSun: Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.
Also, thank you for the great post-signing Q&A in Chicago, it more than made up for the somewhat rushed signing, and very much left everyone giddy with excitement
-- Evgeni
P.S. For quick reference (including my original question): http://i.imgur.com/GKOta9A.png

/u/mistborn: Evgeni,
So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)
And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.
That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.
So if I backpetal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for soulcasting savants on Roshar.)
Feel free to share this.

/u/ArgentSun: Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

/u/mistborn: I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and allomantic resonance."
The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

So savanthood is being revised, which means that many or most of the WoBs from the last few years may not be accurate. We can read something from them but we can't really be sure of any of it. That includes Wax in the Mistborn 2 books, and how we classify his mad skillz.

 

Szeth at the end of WoR

Spoiler

 

As most readers will know, Brandon released an updated version of WoR that has Szeth dying in a different manner. He is killed by the storm rather than by Kaladin's blade. Importantly though we know that BOTH of these versions are
canon.

So there has been a change, and it's important for understanding realmatics that both versions are canon, but it's a change nonetheless.

 

The location of the Well of Ascension, and Hoid

Spoiler

When Brandon released WoA he changed the original draft, which had Vin and elend traveling to Terris, then the mountains, to find the Well. Brandon revised this to have the Well in Luthadel but that cut Hoid's cameo (in the form of footsteps indicating Hoid had been there before, to get the lerasium bead). The new version caused a continuity error with one WoA annotation but basically has Hoid going to Terris after going to the Well. It's not a true canon change, but it's a relevant reference for people tracking Hoid during that time, especially if doing so by the WoA annotations.

Conclusion

If people find this useful, I'd love for any posts here on WoBs, theories or canon material that seem to be wrong, particularly things that Sharders repeat as canon but where there doesn't seem to be an actual source for that. As we find new ones I will update this post accordingly, hopefully we can come up with a little database. And hopefully this can be useful for Cosmere researchers to quickly check in on, to make sure they're not relying on incorrect material. I'm certain there's been one or two more recent ones in category 1, things that people believe are WoB but turn out not to be, if I remember them I'll add them. I may not use Discord, which I think shuts me out of some of these debates, but hopefully anything coming up here can be talked through there and people can report back.

over to you

Edited November 7, 2017 by Extesian
Added new Item 1

[Calderis]

7 minutes ago, Extesian said:

I may not use Discord, which I think shuts me out of some of these debates,

I'm right there with you. A wild 4 yr old son isn't conducive to voice chat. That said this could be a wonderful resource in general, and especially for those not able to use Discord for whatever reason. It's also a great place to keep things updated to settle stubborn arguments.

Great objective, and I'll happily contribute however I can. 

12 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Importantly though we know that BOTH of these versions are canon

On this point, I thought the changed ending was canon, but to avoid confusion and a need to force casual readers to seek out the newer version if they have the original and don't happen to be crazy Sharders, that everything going would be written so as not to contradict either.

I guess it amounts to the same thing, really. The idea of simultaneous and contradictory canon just bothers me. Sorry for the digression. 

[+Extesian]

Thanks Calderis I'll put the source for them both being canon in the OP (it's a WoP)

Quote

PeterAhlstrom      Nightwatcher

• 
• Team Sanderson
• 1,046 posts

 

Posted November 23, 2016 · 

The way it worked in WoR's first draft is still canonical. There are subtle things that make the two situations different

 

[cometaryorbit]

In terms of 'superseded by later material' WOBs:

Quote

Interview: Oct, 2008

Hero of Ages Q&A - TWG (Verbatim)

Qarlin (16 October 2008)

I'm sad Ten Soon never got to talk to Vin again, since it was apparent they both missed each other.

Brandon Sanderson (17 October 2008)

Remember that TenSoon, with spikes, can communicate more easily with those on the other side....

Tags

mistborn, first mistborn trilogy, hero of ages, tensoon, vin, hemalurgy, kandra, spiritual realm, realmatic theory,

Mistborn: Secret History shows that Vin didn't stick around in the Cognitive Realm long enough to talk to anyone except Kelsier.

Also superseded by SH:

Quote

little_wilson

So, Brandon. Hoid. I remember you saying at the Idaho Falls signing last year that he was in Well of Ascension. We, your dedicated fans who like scouring books searching for obscure characters who have any possibility of being the mysterious Hoid, have yet to find him. Peter sent us on a hunt for him (Hoid, not Peter...) in the deleted scenes, and we found his boot-print.

Now, I think he broke the pottery there too—the one holding the larasium—and since there's broken pottery in the actual version, I think he may have snuck into the cavern and broken it as well. If so, is this Hoid's part in Well of Ascension? This trace of him? I commend you if it is. It is clever, making us think it was a person, when in fact it's just something he did.

Brandon Sanderson

You are on the right track, but wrong on one point. Hoid does appear in the book.

I had originally toyed with making his touch on the novel more obscure, but decided that I wanted to be consistent with the other novels by actually having him appear. Once I realized I'd probably cut the scene with the footprint, I decided I needed this actual appearance even more badly.

Fortunately, I knew what Hoid had been up to all this time, and had placed him in a position where several characters could run into him. In Well of Ascension, Hoid believed (as Vin did) that the Well was in the North, even though it was not. He spent much of the book pursuing this idea.

Through events, however, he discovered he was wrong. He made the realization after Vin did, but only because of a chance meeting. (This is recorded in the books. Let's just say he was listening in when someone implied that the Well was in Luthadel.)

He hurried to Luthadel, and was in the town, skulking about in the last parts of the novel. He isn't seen here, though he does still infiltrate the Well. (Hoid is quite proficient at manipulating Shadesmar for his own ends.)

Tags

 

 

Post by Brandon confirming this:

Quote

Official continuity is that Hoid went up to Terris after visiting the Well, as he had things to do there. He did not go looking for the Well. This doesn't change continuity for any of the books, though it does render one of the annotations for Well obsolete.
 

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by cometaryorbit
added another change from SH

[Oversleep]

You should probably link the WoB Stack Exchange so that people would know where to go when they cannot find something

3 hours ago, Extesian said:

Does Hoid use Feruchemical luck to be where he needs to be

Time to share some of my yet-unfinished Hoid WoB collection:

Quote

[2011] He may be capable of a little bit of foreseeing of certain events, not what?s going to happen, but he may need ot be in a certain place in a certain time.
[2013]
Q:Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go?
A:He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books.
[2014] He has a surprising ability to be in the right place at the right time in the Cosmere
[2014]
Q:Is Hoid drawn to novel-worthy plots? Or does he ever just show up in a completely "normal" time/place, with no ramifications on the cosmere, shards, etc.?
A:He is drawn to places specifically because of what's happening in those worlds. He is there and he is meddling.
[2016]
Q: Why did Hoid not take both beads of lerasium?
A: Hoid has an innate ability to know where he needs to be and what he needs to do.
[2016]
Q:You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.
A:Yes, and usually without knowing why.
Q: Is Chromium involved in that?
A:Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using Chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

Most of it is verbatim from theoryland although I may have made some changes to streamline the text. But it should be easily searchable.

3 hours ago, Extesian said:

There have been multiple WoBs since confirming he used the lerasium bead to become an allomancer

Not really. Brandon is surprisingly evasive about that, even when I straight up asked him about it and told him it creates much confusion he evaded that question.

Quote

[23.01.2013]Well, he has a bead of Lerasium.
[29.03.2014] Would you answer if Hoid used it for Feruchemy? His bead? Hoid?s bead was—He originally got it because he wanted to be an Allomancer. [Note that he doesn?t actually answer the question.]
[29.03.2014] Is Wit/Hoid an Allomancer? He did steal a bead of Lerasium off of Scadrial. If he were to make use of that bead, certain powers would have been gained.
[29.03.2014]
Q; Has Hoid used his Lerasium Bead for Feruchemy?
A: Hoid got the bead originally because he wanted to become an Allomancer.
footnote: BWS has stated elsewhere that Hoid has not used his lerasium bead.
[25.02.2016]
Q: Can you share any abilities that Hoid has accrued so far in the books, has he-- I can't even pronounce the L-word...
A: Yes, lerasium, he is indeed an Allomancer. That has happened. I haven't confirmed much else, but he does have that.
[06.12.2016]
Q: When Hoid took the bead of Lerasium, did he actually eat it or did he just hang on to it?
A: You have seen him use Allomancy in other books, so? that?s your answer.
[21.03.2017]

Q: Did Hoid use the bead of lerasium to rewrite his spiritual DNA in a way to give him something other than allomantic powers?

A: His goal was to become an allomancer.

Q: Yeah and did he use it to create other powers?

A: It could not give powers other than allomancy.

Q: Because it’s lerasium?

A: Yes.

Q: So he did burn it and become a Mistborn?

A: Well you have seen him use allomancy…

Q: It’s creating a lot of confusion.

A: You have actually seen him use allomancy.

You can also add that the belief (which I have seen thrown around on the forum) that "Breaths cannot be stolen by Hemalurgy" is wrong (I asked for WoB in the WoBSE and Kurkistan provided a WoB to the contrary).

Very good idea to create such thread, looking forward to what will become of it

Edited June 5, 2017 by Oversleep

[Steeldancer]

I will note that Hoid is sort of a Feruchemist- he has unkeyed metal minds. I got that one myself  so I know it is true. But he is not a genetic feruchemist. 

[Spoolofwhool]

24 minutes ago, The Flash said:

I will note that Hoid is sort of a Feruchemist- he has unkeyed metal minds. I got that one myself  so I know it is true. But he is not a genetic feruchemist. 

Unkeyed metalminds does not make one a feruchemist as you still would require some other method of gaining the ability to access those stores.

[Blightsong]

Hey, @Extesian and @Calderis, while there is a voice channel on the discord all of the discussion takes place on the text channels. Its really awesome over there and easy to join, check it out.

[+Extesian]

Thanks for the input so far folks, I’ll be glad if this ends up being a good resource.

@Oversleep, this Hoid WoB collection sounds like a magnificent idea! You’re of course completely right about my comment that WoBs confirmed Hoid uses the lerasium bead for allomancy. I was careless there (as I was drafting that theory at lunch, at work, before a meeting J). What I meant to say (and will edit in the OP) is that there have been multiple WoBs confirming he is an allomancer. You’re right that the WoBs are cagey on whether he became one by lerasium bead, but that’s still overwhelmingly my head-canon. But the long-discussed idea that he is a feruchemist, and that he stores fortune to get where he needs to be, is clearly not supported by WoBs. It’s not ruled out by it but the strong indications are that isn’t the case, he uses a different, but related mechanism from, presumably, a different magic system. I will add the Breath-spiking belief to the list (though I had never heard a theory that you couldn’t, such a theory surprises me, but you’ve been around longer than me).

@Blightsong thanks for the info on the Discord. I did think it was all audio. I really should check it out, I have this unsettling feeling I’m now missing a lot of the real discussion on Cosmere theories and realmatics by not being on it. The problem is I’m almost exclusively on this site on my phone, and usually only for 5 minutes at a time. But thanks I will check it out.

And thanks @cometaryorbit I've added in the Hoid continuity one. I won't put in the Vin/TenSoon one simply because I don't think the WoB is misleading, only the implication. The WoB doesn't say TenSoon can/did/will communicate with Vin, it only implied it by saying that someone spiked can communicate more easily with someone on 'the other side'. That sounds a bit like the Beyond, which would be wrong, but I think it's just a cagey way of diverting the question, the other side meaning the Cognitive Realm (which is true), and yes, Vin didn't stick around in the Cognitive Realm, but the WoB doesn't say she does. I think it was just Brandon pulling an Aes Sedai and letting people believe what they want. Thanks for both pieces of input though!

Edited June 6, 2017 by Extesian

[Oversleep]

Here's explanation about TenSoon and communication via spikes:

Quote

[follow-up to WOB that implies spikes can be used to communicate with someone who has gone Beyond]
 
Yeah, this looks like one where I was tired from answering a lot of questions, and was thinking about Kelsier--I was really excited to write Secret History back then. I realize that it wouldn't make sense for Kelsier to want to talk to TenSoon, but you'd be surprised the things that you say sometimes when you're trying to write in someone's book, keep yourself from giving too many spoilers, but also answer questions. You can go on auto-pilot sometimes for a minute or two, answering questions that my brain THINKS someone asks, when it's not one they actually asked. Or mashing together two questions, and having a kind of crossed-wires brain moment. You can see me do this on Reddit sometimes too, if you look back through my history. I often catch it and edit to explain myself, but not always
 
This was during the era when I was heavily laying foreshadowing to fans for Kelsier's return, so it wouldn't feel like a cheat when I eventually got to Secret History. So I was looking for opportunities to talk about people with spikes communicating with the Cognitive Realm. I can't remember. There's also a possibility that I was still contemplating Vin staying, which she could have done, as someone who'd carried one of the powers. Either way, I made the call that even bringing Kelsier back was dangerous for undermining consequences, and having Vin hang around would be counter to her character arc and the arc of the stories. So Vin and TenSoon won't be talking any time soon. Sorry to shut down conversation on this one, and sorry to lead you on.

source

 

[Argent]

12 hours ago, Extesian said:

@Blightsong thanks for the info on the Discord. I did think it was all audio. I really should check it out, I have this unsettling feeling I’m now missing a lot of the real discussion on Cosmere theories and realmatics by not being on it. The problem is I’m almost exclusively on this site on my phone, and usually only for 5 minutes at a time. But thanks I will check it out.

Fortunately, Discord has an excellent mobile app

Unfortunately, there are now two Discord servers full of theorists (the Shard's own, and the slightly older Cosmere Chat one), so keeping track of discussions can be a little annoying.

Fortunately again, most of what we are doing in both of those is just spinning wheels. Not much new comes from our discussions, but they are sometimes good for digging obscure WoBs (or, alternatively, failing to find them).

12 hours ago, Extesian said:

@Oversleep, this Hoid WoB collection sounds like a magnificent idea! You’re of course completely right about my comment that WoBs confirmed Hoid uses the lerasium bead for allomancy. I was careless there (as I was drafting that theory at lunch, at work, before a meeting J). What I meant to say (and will edit in the OP) is that there have been multiple WoBs confirming he is an allomancer. You’re right that the WoBs are cagey on whether he became one by lerasium bead, but that’s still overwhelmingly my head-canon. But the long-discussed idea that he is a feruchemist, and that he stores fortune to get where he needs to be, is clearly not supported by WoBs. It’s not ruled out by it but the strong indications are that isn’t the case, he uses a different, but related mechanism from, presumably, a different magic system. I will add the Breath-spiking belief to the list (though I had never heard a theory that you couldn’t, such a theory surprises me, but you’ve been around longer than me).

What's important here is that we don't know whether Hoid is a Feruchemist, and we don't know whether he used the lerasium bead to turn himself into an Allomancer; in fact, we don't know whether he is an Allomancer either, he could be using tech. Everything beyond that is headcanon, and I caution against it.

 

[Oversleep]

15 hours ago, Extesian said:

I will add the Breath-spiking belief to the list (though I had never heard a theory that you couldn’t, such a theory surprises me, but you’ve been around longer than me).

Hold on about those Breaths. It seems we have a case of conflicting WoBs.

[Pagerunner]

Two false-WoBs that I have recently encountered:

1) Learasium is green. I've found word-of-mouth going back to the TWG, but can't figure out where it originally came from. It is depicted as gold on the Allomantic Table of Elements.

2) We will see a new Windrunner swear oaths in Oathbringer. While I agree it is likely, the WoB in question only refers to 'a future book,' not Oathbringer specifically. (It had bizarrely become conflated with the WoB that said we would see Drehy's partner on Oathbringer, making the two the same character.)

[+Extesian]

Thanks @Oversleep, @Pagerunner. Oversleep that spiked Breath WoB us fascinating. I'll wait a bit to see any resolution but that sounds more authoritative than the first. 

PR, I was always surprises people thought of the new Windrunner being on Oathbringer specifically but you're right, I have seen that misunderstanding. I'll add it and the lerasium colour.

And thanks @Argent I've tightened up the language on Hoid's lerasium.

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Extesian

[Oversleep]

On 5.06.2017 at 6:57 AM, Extesian said:

This has come up quite a few times, that we will see a new Windrunner in Oathbringer. This seems to be a misunderstanding based on this WoB, which confirms we will see one, but does not confirm when. PR has also indicated some people have conflated this with a WoB about seeing Drehy's partner in Oathbringer.

Actually it's coming from a glitch in the Matrix when some people including me saw a WoB like that on reddit but it clearly never existed (or perhaps got deleted).

[+Extesian]

I want to add one here, subject to discussion.

I've regularly seen people speculate on the gemstone Frost mentions to Hoid in The Letter, speculating if it's the black sphere, an Aether, all sorts of things like that. I just saw a collection of WoBs @Oversleep posted (here is the doc) that has the following WoB.

Quote

Questioner: The Second Letter, Frost mentions a gemstone, is that in the Moon Sceptre?

Brandon: No, good question. That is a Topaz, which was associated with him for a long time and had some mystical properties.

That seems pretty authoritative to me, not necessarily entirely answering what it is, but I think at least answering that it isn't the Black Sphere, or a range of other ideas people have come up with.  Any evidence to the contrary? I'd have to scour the site to remember some of the other things people have suggested but I can at least put it in as a partial answer. (btw I'm open to any suggestions as to what the Topaz really is. Could it still be an aether? I'm assuming that just a normal topaz has no mystical properties).

[Oversleep]

10 hours ago, Extesian said:

I just saw a collection of WoBs @Oversleep posted (here is the doc) that has the following WoB.

Actually it's @Botanica who first posted that collection. I have no idea where she dug up that from.

Truth be told, the idea that there are some transcripts floating on the web that did not find their way to theoryland scares me.

[+Extesian]

55 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Truth be told, the idea that there are some transcripts floating on the web that did not find their way to theoryland scares me.

It excites me more than it should. 

[Steeldancer]

Oooh so we have seen the Dustbringer Herald somehow? Cool

[Argent]

3 minutes ago, The Flash said:

Oooh so we have seen the Dustbringer Herald somehow? Cool

Chana? Hard to tell, to be honest. People keep talking about how Brandon has said we have "seen" all the Heralds, but he keeps it vague about whether we have seen them as characters on page, or just names. I personally lean more towards the latter.

[Steeldancer]

1 hour ago, Argent said:

Chana? Hard to tell, to be honest. People keep talking about how Brandon has said we have "seen" all the Heralds, but he keeps it vague about whether we have seen them as characters on page, or just names. I personally lean more towards the latter.

Ah that was me looking through that document, and he mentions that we have (sort of) seen either the Herald of each order or a member of each order. However he said dustbringers are "complicated". How it's complicated idk, we've either seen them or not. 

[Calderis]

6 minutes ago, The Flash said:

How it's complicated idk, we've either seen them or not

There's been a lot of speculation that Ash will end up as a Dustbringer. Which if true, would be complicated as we'd have seen a not yet proto-dustbringer who was previously the patron Herald of a different order. 

[Botanica]

On 2017/6/5 at 0:57 PM, Extesian said:

"It will form a bridge" - is the Diagram reference in WoR Ch 89 epigraph, to a Parshedi forming a bridge, metaphorical or magical?

Now this is not one that I've seen disproven, but there are a number of people certain there is a WoB confirming it is a 'real' (magical or metaphysical) bridge. Usually theorized to let Odium/his spren escape Braize, but could be anything. BUT we have this WoP from 2015

Quote

Peter

This is a metaphorical bridge. Basically, the Diagram says it would be super dangerous for their plans if one of the Parshendi formed a Radiant spren bond and became a Radiant. They would be able to bridge the gap between the cultures and throw a wrench into the sequence of events that the Diagram thinks needs to take place.

Now I don't like this answer, and many Sharders are certain it's wrong. But I've seen nothing superseding it. So this would be the second category of 'mistakes'.

Sorry for providing the arguable information! This is actually from my WoR translation notes. I asked the question via e-mail and the quote is what Peter wrote in his reply. I'm not really certain if the answer is right, but I can be sure it's Peter's interpretation given to us translators at that time. (Though whether it's metaphorical or not doesn't influence the translation very much and I didn't pay much attention. My bad.) Maybe I can write to him again and ask for a further confirmation?

[+Extesian]

30 minutes ago, Botanica said:

Sorry for providing the arguable information! This is actually from my WoR translation notes. I asked the question via e-mail and the quote is what Peter wrote in his reply. I'm not really certain if the answer is right, but I can be sure it's Peter's interpretation given to us translators at that time. (Though whether it's metaphorical or not doesn't influence the translation very much and I didn't pay much attention. My bad.) Maybe I can write to him again and ask for a further confirmation?

No Botanica thanks for putting it up in the first place. I enjoy the discovery And that puts it in more context, knowing it was a translating clarification (maybe that's on the source and I missed it). I imagine you get/got some fascinating insights from the process. 

And thank you, of course if you are able to get clarification that would be very welcome, it's been of interest to me for a while!

[Pagerunner]

I've been pretty vocal about how much I don't like this WoP. Not because it's superseded by a WoB, but because of the final conversation between Nale and Lift in Edgedancer.