Limitations of Awakening with Stormlight.

[Calderis]

So let's assume for a moment that Vasher figures out a hack to use Stormlight for Awakening. The actual method isn't important. Just that he's achieved it. 

There are inherent differences between Breath and Stormlight. Namely the "sticky" vs "leaky" thing. With traditional Awakening, the Breath is imparted to the object/corpse and sticks indefinitely. Stormlight is hard to hold and leaks away whether contained in a person or gem. 

So Vasher uses Stormlight, Awakens a Target, and say 10\5\1 minutes later. The item falls back to the ground lifeless. 

Unless he can actually convert the investiture from Stormlight to Breath, thereby removing the need for a hack in the first place, Stormlights nature is going to add the additional restriction of a time limit to Awakening.

Considering the relative abundance of Stormlight to Breath, I think it's a needed and fair Restriction, but it's an additional restriction none the less. 

[CosmereQuestioner]

This may be the complete reason for the inability to awaken with stormlight...not only do most awakening commands take many breaths (And I would imagine the exchange rate would make this a huge amount of stormlight), but items are not nearly as good at holding it in as people (i.e. the rock kaladin stuck to the wall, and this without even a command).

The amount of stormlight needed might be impossible for more than a nanosecond of awakening.

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, CosmereQuestioner said:

The amount of stormlight needed might be impossible for more than a nanosecond of awakening

Valid point. I didn't consider that. 

[ZenBossanova]

Gems can hold Stormlight... but they can't do much if Awakened. 

Possibly, it might make for unique kinds of fabrials. Navani might be very interested. 

[CosmereQuestioner]

True, a well cut gem can, and the better cut the more held and for longer.  I was thinking of little straw men and cloaks and things that are neither gems nor perfectly shaped for the sole purpose of holding stormlight.

[+Extesian]

This is quite an interesting point Calderis. Firstly, that certainly sounds right. Vasher describes Breath as sticking because it (and my wording is from memory) looks for pathways of life. There may be truth in that, but we know from this WoB (also copied at the bottom) that it’s really about the Intent of Endowment, the fact that the magic is designed to be given, and that makes it stick.

But there’s more to it than that when it comes to Awakening. Firstly, as has been observed, it takes more Breath to Awaken long-dead organic material than, say, a corpse (animal or human). But secondly, Identity is important here. You can’t take your Breath back from a Lifeless because the Lifeless has sufficient Identity for the Breath to be coded to them. Whereas awakening a piece of cloth, that cloth does not have sufficient Identity, which means it takes more Breath, but you can get the Breath back as it remains ‘yours’.

So I wonder how these things come into play using Stormlight to Awaken. I feel you must be right about the Stormlight dissipating from the host. But what happens if you make a Lifeless with Stormlight? Is it like a Surgebinder sucking in Stormlight where, as soon as the Lifeless breathes, they will lose it all? Is it a slower recycling? And what of Identity? If you encode Stormlight to an Identity, such as with a Lifeless, will the Stormlight dissipate more slowly than if you give it to a piece of cloth? And with a piece of cloth, where you could normally call back your Breath, how long would you have to get it back? Would it all disappear in several seconds? Would it be slowly, incrementally used up?

I agree that Stormlight/Breath are not likely to be equivalent investiture, and it would take a lot of Stormlight to Awaken. And personally I don’t believe it’s possible to literally convert investiture to a different ‘type’, only to let one ‘type’ fuel the investiture needs of another system. Of course at least with Stormlight you can collect massive amounts of it very regularly.

 

Quote

Argent

Awakening and Surgebinding, Stormlight and Breath seem really similar in some aspects--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Argent

--except Breaths seem to stick to things better--

Brandon Sanderson

They do.

Argent

--than Stormlight. So when you are holding the Breath it doesn’t expire when you put it in something it doesn’t go away. Can you tell me something about why that’s happening?

Brandon Sanderson

Part of this is kind of inherent to the Shard and the power it’s coming from. I mean the power of Endowment is just going to stick, that’s part of the nature of its magic. Does that make sense? But it also kind of has to do with how the ecosystems are working. For instance the Stormlight is essential to the ecosystem of Roshar, it needs to be expended, it needs to get out and-- It’s like evaporation, does that make sense?

Argent

Recycling? Not the recycling but the cycle of--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah like the cycle of water. And so just part of the way the nature of it works, it /has/ to get out, it /has/ to leak out, it has to run out. I mean it leaks even from spheres, right?

Argent

And when you lash things it’s temporary--

Brandon Sanderson

Yep. And even though Szeth says that he thought Voidbringers could hold it they can’t. Like it is just not the way that it works.

Argent

Can they just hold it better?

Brandon Sanderson

They can hold it better. It’s not permanent. Now there are things that can do it permanently but--

Argent

Like the black sphere for example?

Brandon Sanderson

Well we are not going to...The black sphere is something different. You guys have guessed what the black sphere is, right?

Argent

Well we have some ideas. I support that it holds an Unmade. Am I wrong?

Brandon Sanderson

I’m not going to answer that.

Argent

But you said--

Brandon Sanderson

I’m just curious what the theories are. Book 3 the black sphere is-- Everyone who reads the books will know what the black sphere is by the end of Book 3.

Argent

I can live with that.

 

[Calderis]

All good points. 

26 minutes ago, Extesian said:

personally I don’t believe it’s possible to literally convert investiture to a different ‘type’, only to let one ‘type’ fuel the investiture needs of another system.

I agree. I only included that bit for emphasis really. I think the only way you could reasonably convert investiture would be to recombine it into the base investiture that existed before the shattering. This wouldn't be a true conversion as you would need a bit of all shards investiture to essentially negate their intents by having them all. As far as a method to do that... Who knows.

A straight intent to intent transfer seems like it would, if possible, require so many steps that it would be impractical. So Awakening with Stormlight will have to deal with whatever restrictions Stormlight imposes.