If a kandra were to have feruchemy and/or allomancy

[Conatus]

A little while ago, I was thinking about kandra and how powerful they were, and I thought of this. What would happen if a kandra was born with feruchemy or allomancy? Or even became a hemalurgist. They would be so overpowered! Just imagine if a kandra had Lord Ruler-level abilities. A creature like this would likely be able to topple the Final Empire on its own. 

[cloudjumper]

I'm pretty sure we do see that, with Bleeder. I haven't read Era 2 Mistborn in a while, but we see Bleeder use both feruchemy and allomancy. I think she does this with Trellium or something, but I don't know.

[King Cole]

32 minutes ago, Conatus said:

A little while ago, I was thinking about kandra and how powerful they were, and I thought of this. What would happen if a kandra was born with feruchemy or allomancy? Or even became a hemalurgist. They would be so overpowered! Just imagine if a kandra had Lord Ruler-level abilities. A creature like this would likely be able to topple the Final Empire on its own. 

I mean, they would be a Lord Ruler that could change shape, thats it. Its not that op. You may be right about toppling the Final Empire on it's own, but any Fullborn could do that. The Kandra's advantage of immortality would be irrelevant if they could compound gold/atium

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, King Cole said:

I mean, they would be a Lord Ruler that could change shape, thats it. Its not that op. You may be right about toppling the Final Empire on it's own, but any Fullborn could do that. The Kandra's advantage of immortality would be irrelevant if they could compound gold/atium

Except kandra are functionally immortal, so there's no need for atium compounding to stay alive, and their ability to shapeshift could do some crazy things with push/pull mechanics. I don't think they'd gain much, but longevity, disguise, and the ability to have say... A bladed aluminum skeleton could be a little crazy. 

[King Cole]

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

Except kandra are functionally immortal, so there's no need for atium compounding to stay alive, and their ability to shapeshift could do some crazy things with push/pull mechanics. I don't think they'd gain much, but longevity, disguise, and the ability to have say... A bladed aluminum skeleton could be a little crazy. 

Yeah, the immortality wouldn;t need atium, but shapeshifting to do stuff with push and pull mechanics wouldn't really change much. It would be cool to have a aluminum skeleton but it wouldn't really do much

[Conatus]

The only problem is that Inquisitors can sense kandra.

[Kingsdaughter613]

And a powerful enough soother/rioter could control them.

[Betrail]

Actually though if a kandra were to burn copper would it become immune to control?

[The One Who Connects]

3 hours ago, Betrail said:

Actually though if a Kandra were to burn copper would it become immune to control?

You can pierce a Coppercloud with strong enough power, so "immune" is relative. It would definitely help, and that's actually a pretty clever idea

[Kingsdaughter613]

Help, yes. But I'm thinking Fullborn soothing or Lerasium Mistborn/Soother. Both of whom are unusually powerful. 

This part is guess work, but I think copperclouds would do less for hemalurgic creations since they have an inherent weakness. So the level of power needed to break through to soothe a Kandra is less than that necessary to soothe an ordinary person. Duralumin should be able to give enough of a boost. I could be totally wrong about this though.

[Yata]

If the Kandra gained ability with Hemalurgy it will be still easier to control.

Regardless of the method the Kandra used for his/her abilities it would still weak mostly to the same TLR's weakness. If someone pull out his Spikes He would pratically "die" (become mindless is quite the same thing).

Of course if both The Kandrageddon and the Enemy has access to the whole Mistborn's ability the fight could be really fast. The Enemy could leech away the Kandra's metals and then control him. Or a team up of Leecher and Rioter could do the same.

[The One Who Connects]

13 hours ago, Yata said:

The Kandrageddon

This is amazing.

13 hours ago, Yata said:

The Enemy could leech away the Kandra's metals and then control him. Or a team up of Leecher and Rioter could do the same.

And thus, Kandra will learn the "do unto others before they do unto you" proverb and become Leechers themselves for safety

[cometaryorbit]

On 5/24/2017 at 3:52 AM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

This part is guess work, but I think copperclouds would do less for hemalurgic creations since they have an inherent weakness. So the level of power needed to break through to soothe a Kandra is less than that necessary to soothe an ordinary person. Duralumin should be able to give enough of a boost. I could be totally wrong about this though.

I doubt it. For one thing, it's actually harder to affect kandra than humans, just way more effective once you do. (Normal Era 1 allomantic power isn't enough to touch kandra minds at all; Vin needs Duralumin to manage it. But as Yata said, adding lots of spikes would make them easier to control, so who knows.

But the strength of the Coppercloud itself would be based on the kandra's Allomantic strength, not the severity of their 'Hemalurgic flaw'. Even if their resistance to control was basically zero, you'd still need to be able to pierce the Coppercloud, so base Era 1 strength wouldn't be enough.

On 5/24/2017 at 5:06 AM, Yata said:

Regardless of the method the Kandra used for his/her abilities it would still weak mostly to the same TLR's weakness. If someone pull out his Spikes He would pratically "die" (become mindless is quite the same thing).

But do the spikes actually have to stick out of the body? If not, they could put them in their interior and surround them with tough tissue.

[The One Who Connects]

24 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

But do the spikes actually have to stick out of the body? If not, they could put them in their interior and surround them with tough tissue.

It might just be me, but I always felt like the 2 necessary spikes were internalized so they weren't a problem while on assignment. We know Kandra have fluid bindpoints, so it could work

[Calderis]

27 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

But do the spikes actually have to stick out of the body? If not, they could put them in their interior and surround them with tough tissue.

 

2 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

It might just be me, but I always felt like the 2 necessary spikes were internalized so they weren't a problem while on assignment. We know Kandra have fluid bindpoints, so it could work

Exactly what the one who connect says. If the spikes were external they'd be a give away. Look at Wax and Lessie. Are you really going to try and tell me that she had external spikes and he never saw them? 

Considering the nature of Kandra infiltration, there would have been more than enough situations that external spikes would have been a major problem. 

[cometaryorbit]

15 minutes ago, Calderis said:

 

Exactly what the one who connect says. If the spikes were external they'd be a give away. Look at Wax and Lessie. Are you really going to try and tell me that she had external spikes and he never saw them? 

Considering the nature of Kandra infiltration, there would have been more than enough situations that external spikes would have been a major problem. 

Ah. Wax and Lessie are a very good point - I was thinking it wouldn't be an issue because spikes could be covered by clothing, but yeah, they must be able to hide them under flesh.

[+hwiles]

On 5/23/2017 at 3:57 PM, Betrail said:

Actually though if a kandra were to burn copper would it become immune to control?

This is a fascinating idea I've never heard before.  I would guess that yes, they probably would be immune to control.  From normal allomancers.  Recall that Vin could feel TLR's soothing through her copper cloud, so we can guess that it would still be possible for several soothers/rioters working in tandem to mind control the kandra.  Harmony could probably still take control of them directly as well, as his means of controlling them doesn't rely on allomancy.  Plus, if Marsh could've broken free of Ruin by burning copper, his body might've done it instinctively when Ruin wasn't paying close attention.  (speculation)