Question about being able to use multiple magic systems

[Paladin Brewer]

Greets,

I am getting forgetful...by being able to manipulate one system of magic are you automatically able to use another? My question mostly stems from Vasher...by going to Roshar, can he use Stormlight? At the very least it feels like using Breath is similar to using Stormlight...but clearly he doesn't just become Mistborn by going to Scadrial. So I guess my question is, can Vasher use Stormlight, and if so, how?

[Agent34]

8 hours ago, Crucible of Shards said:

So when Brandon says that Szeth better not draw Nightblood for a while yet, is he referring to the period of time it takes to bond Nightblood? Because the Coppermind says you have to survive drawing Nightblood in order to bond with it.

I think that's referring to Szeth not having a way of drawing in Investiture at the moment so drawing Nightblood would kill him.

[ZenBossanova]

Being able to use one magic system does not automatically make you able to use another. 

Vasher is smart enough to have an idea of how to work with it, but mostly all he has been able to do, is use it to survive. He has not been able to use it for the kind of things he is used to doing, eg Awakening. 

[Weltall]

Vasher can 'use' Stormlight in the sense that his Divine Breath doesn't really care what kind of Investiture it consumes on a weekly basis so long as it gets enough. Nightblood is similar in that it consumes Investiture without regard for the type. However, Brandon has explicitly stated that Vasher hasn't figured out how to use Stormlight to fuel Awakening and in general we know that while such things are possible they generally require a 'hack' of some form or another.

Just because Investiture is sufficiently fungible doesn't mean that you can actually use any given magic system just because you can use another. You still need your spiritweb to be 'wired' for a magic system to actually use it, whether permanently via the process of Initiation or via temporarly changes like a bonded Honorblade, a Southern Scadrian medallion or hemalurgy (more permanent than the others but still reversible).

Hoid is a great example of this because he has multiple magic systems at his command and we know he still had to make special efforts. For example, he needed to obtain a lerasium bead in order to give himself Allomancy and while he's attempted to become an Elantrian he failed because he wasn't able to trigger whatever Initiation requirement AonDor has. If he wanted to become a Surgebinder he'd have to bond a spren just like anyone else.

[S4S]

Remember, in Shallan's flashback, Hoid does invest a vial of metal in Roshar used by Mistborns in Scadrial. In other forms posted, people like Chaos have explained that if you were Mistborn you could do something like that (burn metal that you have brought from Scadrial on Roshar) that it could be done.

But Hoid is a special case, so that might be a poor analogy... Anyway.

Your humble servant...

Shadows4Silence

[S4S]

@FiveLate Yeah, you could make it on other Shards. But it could be made in a different Shard, like bringing Stormlight infused spheres to Scadrial. That's what I'm saying. 

[The One Who Connects]

3 minutes ago, Shadows4Silence said:

Yeah, you could make it on other Shards. But it could be made in a different Shard, like bringing Stormlight infused spheres to Scadrial. That's what I'm saying.

What FiveLate is technically saying is not the same as what you are saying. Metal is metal is metal, and not magical, so naturally mined metal from anywhere is no different, and not really "on/in" a different shard, while Stormlight has been co-opted by Honor. If you meant different planet, then that's where the misunderstanding comes from.

edit, ninja'd by seconds..

Edited June 27, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[S4S]

Yeah, that's what I'm getting to get at. And thanks @The One Who Connects and @FiveLate for that. I'm always up for constructive criticism!

Your humble servant...

Shadows4Silence

[Yitzi2]

2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

What FiveLate is technically saying is not the same as what you are saying. Metal is metal is metal, and not magical, so naturally mined metal from anywhere is no different, and not really "on/in" a different shard, while Stormlight has been co-opted by Honor. If you meant different planet, then that's where the misunderstanding comes from.

edit, ninja'd by seconds..

Naturally mined...do we know anything about how usable Soulcast metal is for allomancy?

[Calderis]

Just now, Yitzi2 said:

Naturally mined...do we know anything about how usable Soulcast metal is for allomancy?

It's reliant on the molecular structure, not the source. If the metal is soulcast, and is metal, it will work. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=636#4

Spoilered for length

Spoiler

OPEN THE FRIDGE

Ok, last question. It was really difficult coming up with three questions that haven’t been asked already...

BRANDON SANDERSON

OK... you’re not going to ask me the “what would you ask me” question?

OPEN THE FRIDGE

Not quite...

BRANDON SANDERSON

OK good, because I hate that one! (laughs)

OPEN THE FRIDGE

My question is if there’s anything that you’ve never been asked that you would like to talk about?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Oooooh, ok. Hm. That one is so hard! Every time people ask me something like this... What have I never been asked that people should be asking, is basically what the question is? Something that the fans have just missed... They pick up on so much, that it’s hard... I do wonder if, you know… all the magic systems [in my books] are connected and work on some basic fundamental principles, and a lot of people haven’t been asking questions about this. One thing I did get a question on today, and I’ll just talk about this one... they didn’t ask the right question, but I nudged them the right way, is understanding that tie between Aondor [the magic system from Elantris] and allomancy [Mistborn’s magic system].

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the feruchemical charge overwrites the allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel feruchemy with allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels allomancy, to fuel feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of feruchemical power. That’s why compounding is so powerful.

TAGS

cosmere ,  mistborn ,  elantris ,  aondor ,  allomancy ,  compounding ,  feruchemy ,  realmatic theory ,  power of creation

 

[Crucible of Shards]

As far as the OP is concerned, @R.E. posted on the Supanova event thread that Vasher uses a yet-unknown method to invest himself with the Stormlight. A method that Szeth could also learn...

[Calderis]

17 minutes ago, Crucible of Shards said:

As far as the OP is concerned, @R.E. posted on the Supanova event thread that Vasher uses a yet-unknown method to invest himself with the Stormlight. A method that Szeth could also learn...

Considering this WoB 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1048#25

Quote

If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things. It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers.

TAGS

seon ,  nahel bond ,  roshar

I think we can assume that any bond with a piece of investiture will allow you to at least invest with Stormlight. 

Vasher has an inate bond with his divine breath, and Szeth will have a bond with Nightblood. 

[Crucible of Shards]

16 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Considering this WoB 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1048#25

I think we can assume that any bond with a piece of investiture will allow you to at least invest with Stormlight. 

Vasher has an inate bond with his divine breath, and Szeth will have a bond with Nightblood. 

So when Brandon says that Szeth better not draw Nightblood for a while yet, is he referring to the period of time it takes to bond Nightblood? Because the Coppermind says you have to survive drawing Nightblood in order to bond with it.

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Crucible of Shards said:

So when Brandon says that Szeth better not draw Nightblood for a while yet, is he referring to the period of time it takes to bond Nightblood? Because the Coppermind says you have to survive drawing Nightblood in order to bond with it.

The Coppermind is a fan wiki that compiles the information we have. We know that surviving drawing him bonds you, but we don't know if that's the only way. I suspect he can be bonded similarly to a Shardblade, and after a set time frame, Szeth will gain the ability to invest, and probably something more. 

Just my speculation though. 

[Crucible of Shards]

That's fair. I just checked the annotations for Warbreaker and I'm not convinced. It seems that it's the actual feeding on investiture that bonds a person to Nightblood, but once again, it's not waterproof.

[The One Who Connects]

7 hours ago, Crucible of Shards said:

Vasher uses a yet-unknown method to invest himself with the Stormlight. A method that Szeth could also learn...

I swear I remember reading an entry that implied his ability to take in Stormlight had to do with the "gap" in his Spiritweb that Breath would occupy, but for the life of me, I can't find it. I'll edit it in if I find it later

[+Extesian]

58 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I swear I remember reading an entry that implied his ability to take in Stormlight had to do with the "gap" in his Spiritweb that Breath would occupy, but for the life of me, I can't find it. I'll edit it in if I find it later

This one

Quote

BLACKYETI

With most magic systems, you've said that you need some sort of gap in your soul for the investiture to get in. On Nalthis, there's obviously a bit that they can give away. Is this how Vasher is able to get Stormlight?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah. (Brandon looked like he was going to expand on this, but he just repeated yeah instead.)

Source

Seems a little questionable, but I'll assume it's legit unless finding out otherwise