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Which cosmere character can you relate to the most? /Edit: Mostly Adolin psychoanalysis chat group


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This is just a silly question, something I've been thinking about. Or more like something I always think about when reading a book. Sometimes there are characters I like, but have nothing in common with (Adolin), sometimes there are ones I see myself in, and hate them for it (don't have a good cosmere example) and then there are those I can really relate to, and Brandon wrote lots of those :)

I really love that there are so many female scientists in the cosmere, because as a biology student I can easily relate to those, such as Khriss with her endless questions, or Jasnah with her "storm off, I want to read a book. ALONE." attitude. But also Siri, especially when she ran off to ride a horse to avoid her responsibilities (I might have done that on several ocasions all the time).

And I might continue, for hours, but I mostly want to read what other people think, not psycho-analyze myself :D

So, do you think, there's someone you have a lot in common with in the cosmere? Someone you would be good friends with? Or maybe someone who is just like you but you don't like it?

I'm looking forward to all the answers!

Edited by Staphylococcus
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I probably have the most in common with Shallan--I love to draw (though I can never get my people to look realistic, just cartoonish) I try to avoid confrontation at all costs and hate when anyone in my family is arguing, and I have this need to keep the mood as light as possible. I don't think I'm as witty, though. Nor do I have a tragic backstory.

The character I love the most but also have the least in common with is Kaladin. I think it's his drive to bring people together and how seriously he cares about protecting others that appeals to me. He's by far my favourite character in any book I've read, Shallan being a close second. Maybe subconsciously I want to care about people as much as he does? Not that I don't care about people :P but I very much enjoy working alone, and getting into a team mentality is hard for me.

I expect I'd probably be good friends with Shallan, maybe Kaladin. Vin intimidates me, haha, but Elend I could see myself getting along well with, same with Raoden. I'm a hopeless optimist, too.

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I'd guess I have most in common with Shallan, too.  I've slightly curly red hair and freckles, I'm an artist, and I can go on and on about random facts of flora and fauna.  In school I work best when the teachers use visual aspects.  I can remember pictures better than most other things, besides random facts that have nothing to do with anything.  In my own mind, I run through possible witty conversations, and when I type or write, I can come up with clever things to say, but when it comes to talking to people face-to-face, I go quiet.  I do lie to myself, and that's a problem in my life.  I know that all this might seem a bit too much like Shallan, but it is the truth.  Here, I have proof of my artistic ability.  I'll hide it in the spoiler.  Don't look at it if you're going to be judging me for bragging.

 

Spoiler

myTigerDrawing

And it's sideways.

 

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The Cosmere character I relate the most to is Adolin.

I relate to his outgoing, social personality combined with his inability to form meaningful relationships with his peers: everyone knows him, he knows everyone and yet, he has no friends. I was very touched to see an author attempt at dropping such a character into a work of fiction as, typically, authors wanting to represent hardships into personal relationships will choose to broach it from the awkward introverted character (such as Renarin). The truth is, yes, extroverted talkative individuals can have problems with relationships too: some of us are too intrusive, too blunt, take too much space without intending too and others do not like it. As a result, yes, some of us will just close up onto ourselves, but closing up for an extroverted isn't the same as for an introverted: you are still very talkative and social, but not about the things which are important because important things are weapons to be used against you. Worst, if you were to make a move to actually develop a meaningful relationship with someone you actually enjoy spending time with, then this person might as well reject you and then where would you be? Left with no one to talk to, to spend time with: better to ignore it, to not try and to stay within the blissful ignorance as to whether or not others actually like you.

I also relate to his blunt honesty, his straight-forwardness into calling a stone, a stone without attempting to sugar-coating it. I also relate to him not being a blind follower, to question before believing and to him being downright pragmatic. No, Dalinar, even if you think they are true, it does not make sense to base your decision making on visions.

So yeah, I loved how Brandon tried to write this character and I found it extraordinarily refreshing.

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Vin.

I've said this often enough that it's probably a familiar refrain to people of this forum by now... but I relate very well to Vin's thought processes and her anxiety, especially in the first book. I happened to read Mistborn around the time that my own anxiety was starting to get to be too much, so seeing a character who I could relate to dealing with the same problems really helped.

And I especially like the fact that Brandon didn't make Vin "get over it". She gets better, without getting better, which I found to be pretty damnation inspiring. I read that as, basically, being told that it's okay to have fears and worries and concerns. That just because these are things that are part of you, that you might not be able to get rid of, that doens't mean you can't live a full life and that you can't manage and control your fears.

I love Vin as a character. 

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6 hours ago, Truthweaver said:

That's amazing! I love it! Are you a professional artist? (By that I mean do you draw commissioned pictures or sell your art in some way?)

I'm 15; I don't really sell them, but I'm planning to.  I'll be doing portraits of people's kids.

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@Truthweaver Funny how many people relate to Shallan the most while for me she's the least relatable out of these science-type characters. I'm probably just not happy and "bubbly" enough. Although we all know Shallan is faking it. 

And you also reminded me that I forgot to include Kaladin: I too

- was forced to become a doctor by my parents

- didn't do it (for very different and much more selfish reasons)

- am very protective of my younger brother

- have a history of mental problems,

- mostly make fun of people in a mean way (very much on purpose)

And I have to admit I admire your hopless optimism, it's one of those qualities I'd really like to possess.

@Runeweaver you are 15 and can draw like that?! Oh wow! It's amazing! Great job! ;)

@maxal although I REALLY can't relate to this, as I'm the exact opposite (an introvert with very little friends I literally depend upon) I think I can imagine what you are going through :(

And being too blunt doesn't have to be a bad thing! I, for example, use that as a people-filter: those who don't find my blunt personality off-putting instantly become my good friends :D

You just have to work with what you have - every type of personality is interesting and amazing in its own way! For example, this adolin-type, for me,  I is exceptionally intriguing as what you go through is so different from my own experiences.

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5 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

- was forced to become a doctor by my parents

I find this interesting. I have read many commentaries of people relating to one character or the other, but I think this is the first time I read someone stating their relate to Kaladin because they too were forced into a career they didn't want. I have often stated how I felt Kaladin never really wanted to be a surgeon, even when he appeared to have settled for this path, I still didn't believe he truly wanted it, so to hear another reader relating to him for this reason, well, I find it very interesting. 

This being said, I thought this aspect of Kaladin's life hasn't been given a strong enough focus. I thought it was interesting, but it sort of took a back seat with other stuff which is a shame as I find parents forcing their kids into a given career to be an interesting story arc to have within a work of fantasy.

5 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal although I REALLY can't relate to this, as I'm the exact opposite (an introvert with very little friends I literally depend upon) I think I can imagine what you are going through :(

And being too blunt doesn't have to be a bad thing! I, for example, use that as a people-filter: those who don't find my blunt personality off-putting instantly become my good friends :D

You just have to work with what you have - every type of personality is interesting and amazing in its own way! For example, this adolin-type, for me,  I is exceptionally intriguing as what you go through is so different from my own experiences.

It is a hard phenomenon to explain and I feel it remains hard to comprehend: how can someone so social, so outgoing, so readily talking to everyone have trouble making friends? It defies people's expectation. How can it be true? Even to this day, I dare not make anything more than a superficial contact with others, I am still mindful as to whether or not they like me (or not) and it is quite painful at times. I thought with time, with age, it would all go away, but it remains, it lingers. It just doesn't go away: I still struggle with these things and while I am old enough to be able to talk about it, to phrase it, to analyse it, to write a 10 pages report as to why it happens, I still cannot solve it. So yeah, when Adolin realizes nobody actually likes him, it really gets to me.

This being said, having a blunt personality does have advantages. It is terrible when it comes to interpersonal relationships, but it does wonders within the work environment. Being a straight-forward, a get down the basic and a results oriented individual are valuable assets within many professions, providing you can learn to manage people's emotions more efficiently. 

This being said, I think diversity is what makes those stories appealing: everyone can find a character they can relate to.

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@maxal ok, now I kind of feel like I have the same problem you do, but I deal with it in a very different way: I feel like nobody will like me so I don't really talk to people, don't go out with bigger groups of people and such. Who can get over my weirdness and persuade me that they want to be friends with me, well, those people I love endlessly :)

With you, your insecurities, or how to call that, are probably not that visible, people don't see you feel this way - like with Adolin - probably most of the girls, and even some of the readers, see him like a womanizer, not like a person, that's just afraid to open up and make friends.

But trust me, there definitely are people, that would want to be friends with you and would like you for who you are :) you just have to find them ;)

 

3 hours ago, maxal said:

I have read many commentaries of people relating to one character or the other, but I think this is the first time I read someone stating their relate to Kaladin because they too were forced into a career they didn't want.

"You have to go study then come back and continue my work because your brother can't do it." Yup, it felt like Mr. Sanderson overheard the endless arguments I had with my parents and got inspired...

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7 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal ok, now I kind of feel like I have the same problem you do, but I deal with it in a very different way: I feel like nobody will like me so I don't really talk to people, don't go out with bigger groups of people and such. Who can get over my weirdness and persuade me that they want to be friends with me, well, those people I love endlessly :)

With you, your insecurities, or how to call that, are probably not that visible, people don't see you feel this way - like with Adolin - probably most of the girls, and even some of the readers, see him like a womanizer, not like a person, that's just afraid to open up and make friends.

But trust me, there definitely are people, that would want to be friends with you and would like you for who you are :) you just have to find them ;)

 

"You have to go study then come back and continue my work because your brother can't do it." Yup, it felt like Mr. Sanderson overheard the endless arguments I had with my parents and got inspired...

Oh I definitely tried the "I will never talk again" strategy. There were evenings where I tried to not talk at all as each time I do talk, I will say too much, ask the wrong questions, the wrong way, be too strongly opinionated, try too much to find solutions (most people do not want solutions when talking about their problems, but I am very solution oriented) and just get on people's bad side, so for the shake of a happy evening with "friends", I attempted to... not talking. Unfortunately, I was told afterwards I was being rude, unpleasant and it showed I didn't want to be there... That was a few years ago, now I don't do this anymore. Anyway, attempting not to talk is about the same as attempting not to breath: it is unbelievably... hard. People sometimes will say I write lengthy posts, but truth is... that's because I talk a lot, so when I write, I write a lot. So huh overall, not talking isn't really an option. 

People who know me, who actually took the time to know me, know they can just tell me to... shut up (nicely) when I talk too much. Or change the subject if I am getting too riled up in it (I will do that now, if it escalate, I will do my best to drop it). They can tell me when I am doing it again, when I am not being mindful enough which does get better with age. Younger, I would get so excited to have people to talk to, I would forget to listen to them trap within my endless babble (I don't do that anymore). I do get a lot more cues now than when I was younger, but there are still moments where I am told afterwards I really missed it :o

I don't know if I would call it insecurities... more resignation. Also, I have a much lesser need for the talking now than when I was younger. I am getting more even with age which is a good thing. I will never attempt at developing new friendships, but I will not get hurt if I hear other people, say at work, at becoming friends. Anyway, I am not exactly alone either: I have a husband and children, but friends, not really. The last one I still had sort of developed incompatible interests with adult age, so she drifted away (it often happens, your childhood friends will not necessarily end up choosing life style which is compatible with your friendship, this isn't just me, a lot of adults go through something similar).

This being said, I think it is great you found people who enjoy your company. I have often envied those who had a few close friends: talking to a large number of people is great and everything, the group thing is fun and everything, but deep down, a lot of people just want to have real friends. So I do find it preferable.

A lot of readers definitely read Adolin as nothing more than a womanizer who just enjoys the thrill of the chase: a lot of readers completely miss out the cues he isn't doing it on purpose, he can't commit because it asks too much out of him. He'd rather break it than face it. It is why I keep on saying Adolin doesn't like adventure nor new things (a frequent thought), why I keep saying he isn't exactly brave, brave (he won't face his fears), but either readers see it or they don't because it isn't exactly written out in those terms into the book. A lot of the character reactions were very familiar to me which maybe why I caught on them upon a first read. 

Adolin, I read as someone who just wants others to like him: his father, his peers, his future wife, but is too afraid they will tell him they don't, he just won't push it any further. Worst, he will pretend everything is fine, nothing bothers him. He will pretend to be strong, he will look strong, but inside, it is another story completely. I find it fascinating because Adolin's secret isn't a secret... it is himself. 

 

Edited by maxal
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@maxal yeah, ok, I get that :) but you've got a husband and that's amazing! 

At least, unlike Adolin, you don't suck at romance :D

Also, it makes me angry when people say he's just a stupid insensitive womanizer...can't you see he's trying so hard??? To please everyone, the girls he's dating, his father...he just doesn't know how to do it. (I hate it when people misinterpret things. :D )

(Ok, so, we derailed this whole thing to talk about our people-problems, which doesn't really matter since I mostly started this topic to procrastinate. :D )

 

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1 hour ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal yeah, ok, I get that :) but you've got a husband and that's amazing! 

At least, unlike Adolin, you don't suck at romance :D

Also, it makes me angry when people say he's just a stupid insensitive womanizer...can't you see he's trying so hard??? To please everyone, the girls he's dating, his father...he just doesn't know how to do it. (I hate it when people misinterpret things. :D )

(Ok, so, we derailed this whole thing to talk about our people-problems, which doesn't really matter since I mostly started this topic to procrastinate. :D )

 

Yeah, I'm pretty lucky to have found my husband: we tend to say we found each other as his relationships haven't been all successful either. I once wrote how he and I ended up dating each other through the help of Pink Superhero. I don't recall in which thread I posted it, pretty amazing story and all true. I always thought if Adolin were to succeed in a relationship, then it would be through an impossible story such as mine. Also, a the time, since I was pretty big onto the Unbearable Lightness of Being, I fancied saying I came into my relationship though 7 hazards or unrelated events :ph34r: 

Had I been a very handsome, rich and desirable young man, then perhaps I would have ended up sucking at relationships too, like Adolin, we might never know ;)

I hate it too, but understanding Adolin implies reading in between the lines and trying to not allow Kaladin and Shallan views of him to influence you too much. That's the problem with a character who always wears a mask, but doesn't have enough viewpoints for you to realize he is doing it. Also, readers tend to see what they want to see and a lot of readers just want to read Adolin as an archetype, so they read him as one, ignoring the clues their interpretation is probably wrong.

Yeah, Adolin tries so hard to please everyone, it is almost sad. One passage which made me tick was, back in WoK, when Dalinar remarks how Adolin had the tendency to behave like a child, whenever around Navani. I figured she probably was the only one to openly give him affection, so he responds to it by acting childishly, because he craves for it. There is a WoB which implies Adolin didn't get a lot of attention from his parents growing up (probably because they figured he didn't need it as he was the neurotypical healthy one).

Bah aren't all topics supposed to derail after a while? :ph34r:

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@maxal yup, the older, healthier children usually do get less attention. For me it's cute how he acts around Navani. Over all his relationship with Navani is a nice touch, as he doen't remember his mom and Dalinar was alcoholic and irresponsible at first and obsessed with the codes later, telling Adolin how to live rather than trying to really conect with him or Renarin on a personal level. 

I also feel like everyone is like "poor Renarin, he's autistic and epileptic and stuff" (not that I don't like him, I love both Kholin boys. :D ) and Adolin gets overlooked. By both his family AND the readers. No matter how hard he's trying.

(Edit to my pervious statement: I CAN relate to Adolin. At least about most of this. :D )

 

Well at least we derailed to a really deep and meaningful Adolin psychoanalysis :ph34r:

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1 minute ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal yup, the older, healthier children usually do get less attention. For me it's cute how he acts around Navani. Over all his relationship with Navani is a nice touch, as he doen't remember his mom and Dalinar was alcoholic and irresponsible at first and obsessed with the codes later, telling Adolin how to live rather than trying to really conect with him or Renarin on a personal level. 

I also feel like everyone is like "poor Renarin, he's autistic and epileptic and stuff" (not that I don't like him, I love both Kholin boys. :D ) and Adolin gets overlooked. By both his family AND the readers. No matter how hard he's trying.

(Edit to my pervious statement: I CAN relate to Adolin. At least about most of this. :D )

 

Well at least we derailed to a really deep and meaningful Adolin psychoanalysis :ph34r:

Oh another way I do relate to Adolin is a do have... a sibling with special needs. We never truly knew what my sibling diagnostic would have been as, back in the 80s, it wasn't as obvious to get one as it is today. I am currently juggling in between high-level autism (same as Renarin) and/or borderline personality (it seems to fit, but I am not an expert, I just spent a lot of time reading about it, trying to understand), whichever one, but on a scale where it isn't apparent as an adult as my sibling did try to get a diagnostic and nope. They couldn't find one. I read it often happens, once adult, to fail at getting one, to not have the right triggers anymore even if the disability remains real.

Growing up with my sibling has been very... difficult. In a different way than it seems to have been for Adolin, but knowing how it is to be the "healthy normal strong one" in a family, I really do sympathize with him. It is a very difficult subject to broach because people will always naturally side with the individual having the "real" disability, thinking the "other one", has it easy, in comparison without realizing this is exactly what is hard about it: not being allowed to have hardships, not being allowed to struggle because whatever may happen to you, will always be lesser than your sibling. Everyone will always say "poor Renarin" because he has to work against a disability, but having grown up with my sibling, I have a harder time doing it because I feel, at some point, you've got to take yourself into your hands and stop victimizing yourself so much. My sibling did a lot of that and it got.... very tiring and hard to live with. I tend to think "poor Adolin", nobody is willing to love him just as he is while everyone is doing it for Renarin.

The way I read Adolin is he has never been allowed the chance to make mistake, to have hardships, to be bothered by anything: he just had to swallow up everything and put up a strong face because, well, is he isn't perfect, then he won't be loved.  There also may be a side of him which think he just isn't good enough, which recoup this other WoB where Brandon says Adolin is afraid of not being good at relationships.

I also do think Dalinar never really tried to connect with Adolin in a personal manner, but we see him trying with Renarin (especially with Renarin), Elhokar and Kaladin. I feel Adolin is just the recipient of Dalinar's expectations without getting anything out of it. It is probably why he reacts the way he does around Navani: unconditional love. He never got it from anyone else, I think.

It is so fun to psychoanalyses Adolin :ph34r:

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@maxal I feel you. I feel you very much. Although my sibling is ill physically, not mentally (I'm the less neurotypical one in our family, although I was very vaguely diagnosed as "not seriously ill in any way" :D ) but yeah, I was always considered the more healthy, capable, and needing less care and attention.

I was like "poor Adolin" the whole time through WoR (in WoK even I thought him an cremhole. It took me a while to see through his mask. I'm sorry :D ) I know the fear of never being good enough a little too well. My parents just took everything I did for granted. So yeah, well, I really do understand this.

It's quite amazing how deep and diverse the cosmere characters are. I don't really know how someone can make up characters as deep as real people. Wow.

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I guess you could say that one of the characters I relate best to is Spook (well, he is my profile photo).

Spook for me is a person always on the edge. He is someone with great potential and a yearning to do right, but he is never really considered important enough. Especially his language barrier in the first book really resonates with me. Although I speak the same language as many others, I never feel like I quite get my point across. His misunderstanding of simple social cues, his dogged desire to help the crew, and his inability to make any real difference resonates with me, probably not for the right reasons.

In later books, the part of Spook that I really sympathize with is the desire to be better. He is a boy (really a man), who is struggling with a feeling of being less than, and feeling that people do things for him. I too struggle with those feelings. So he pushes himself, unraveling his own body simply to prove himself. Although I do not possess that kind of tenacity, emotionally I attempt to make myself like stone, inhuman, to better help others. He looks up to Kelsier to such a degree that he simply cannot bear to do something wrong, simply because it would be an insult to the man who made him who he is. He wants to be worthy, and struggles with feelings of self loathing which resonate very deeply with myself. He eventually lives up to Kelsier's legacy, becoming the Survivor of Flames, someone who Kelsier claims as his own.

The hopeful part of Spook's nature is the fact that he eventually becomes, in my opinion, the greatest of all the members of the crew. Although he is not a key figure in the climax, he is responsible for guiding the people of Scadrial towards a brighter future. With gifts bestowed to him by Sazed and the same inner strength which drove him to become the Survivor of Flames, he creates peace, and allows humanity to move forward. He relinquishes his power after he finds the people to be strong enough and worthy, just like Kelsier found him worthy. He consistently pushes himself to the brink, even though he hates himself, even though the world never gave him a chance. He's someone who just simply would give up. He's a person I really hope to be.

 

 

 

 

Sorry if I got a bit intense:ph34r:

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6 hours ago, maxal said:

That's the problem with a character who always wears a mask, but doesn't have enough viewpoints for you to realize he is doing it.

Do you think that, in the future Stormlight Archive books, Adolin's efforts will become clearer?

Anyway, @Jedal, I think that it's awesome that you can relate to spook so well.  As readers, we want to be as amazing as those characters, want to be important.  I branched off from that the wrong way.  I've read books my whole life, and, being an optimist, I see the good things about trials and hidden pain.  And that's not a good thing.  I've grown up a privileged kid, not rich or anything, but still so much more privileged than so many people.  As a bookworm from a young age, I saw all the tragic backgrounds of characters, saw how awesome they always always become, and I started wishing for terrible things to happen to me so that I could become as strong and experienced as them.  Little did I know that most people that go through such hard things break down.  The ones who were already strong enough to push through are the ones that become main characters.

I'm one of those people that want to be different, and self-prescribe(wrong word I think) themselves with a whole bunch of different mental problems.  I'd do that to make myself be more of a character, rather than simply a person.  I probably have at least one small disorder, but that's beside the point.  And then I start hating myself for how stupid that is, and than I keep on hating myself because that hate is a trial in and of itself, and then I realize that I'm thinking the same bratty way, and then I shut down, go blank and emotionless on the inside, to stop the turmult of spiraling thoughts.  And then it starts all over again, in many different kinds of ways.

(Sigh,) So, mostly I'll cover it up and just be happy.  It's a problem that I can mostly ignore.  I'll listen to audiobooks, ted talks, and podcasts so that I'm listening rather than thinking.  It helps, and gives me motivation to simply read, write, draw, excercise, and work on my education.  It's not all as bad as it seems.  Back to the beginning, it's all just about how I think about things.  When I do things I love, it brightens my mood and I don't get those stormcloud thoughts in the first place.

So, my point apperantly is, in away, that my life is both chaotic and simply bright at the exact same time.  (Those are both better than feeling nothing, though.)

You were all talking about that kind of stuff . . . and I could relate . . . so yah . . . go Shallan. . . . (Embarrassed smile)

I can't tell how I sound in this.  Do I come across as one who has gone through a trial, or one who isn't prepared at all for the more tangent of life's difficulties?  I, myself can't figure it out.

Edited by Runeweaver
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2 hours ago, Runeweaver said:

I can't tell how I sound in this.  Do I come across as one who has gone through a trial, or one who isn't prepared at all for the more tangent of life's difficulties?  I, myself can't figure it out.

Well, I understand very well what you're saying about wanting those transformative things to happen to you, to make you great, I felt the same way when I was young. It's not so much your privilege, it might just be naivete.

 

But the way you think of yourself... it is very similar to the way I find myself thinking. For me, it's simply because throughout my life I, like Spook, have been told by people that were formative figures in my life that I was less than what I should be.

For the average person, I think that's just extreme empathy/compassion. The fact that you feel that you are bratty shows that you really aren't. You're someone with an understanding of their status and position, and that seems to speak to your greater maturity and sensitivity. I think you're someone who bears the weight of the world on their shoulders, and whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you.

EDIT: Turns out we're also the same age! Isn't it wonderful feeling older than your years?

Edited by Jedal
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Sorry to interrupt your psychoanalysis of Adolin Kholin, but I'mma answer the original question, as I'm not good with the psychoanalysis stuff. Feel free to ignore my comment and comment around it.

Which cosmere character do I relate to most? 

Wellllllll.............. Wayne, to be honest, which sounds REALLY weird.

-He thinks differently than most people (him in a kleptomaniac sort of way, me in an aspie sort of way)

-ACTING. Seriously, I can't not love him for this. I have years upon years of acting experience, most of which was spent dressing as the opposite gender. His use of accents, of hats, all of the tiny, sublet little details that he uses to make people trust him appeal to me. I sometimes subtly alter who I portray myself (not my characters) as to gain attention or favor from others, and Wayne does the same thing. And I absolutely love that he uses his time bubbles to help him pull off his stunts.

-On my own. Wayne often does his own thing, whether oblivious to the plans of others or not. He might do a random thing for entertainment or out of curiosity, or maybe because no one pays attention to him. It sounds a bit familiar to me........

-Sense of humor that isn't exactly clean or appropriate. I really shouldn't have to explain this one.

-Random philosophies. These are sometimes mixed with the aforementioned sense of humor, but are usually profound, unexpected, and confusing.

Ways I am NOT like Wayne.

-Guns. Lets just say that I'm the exact opposite of Wayne when it involves guns, and leave it at that.

-Female. I really shouldn't have to explain this.

-Not a Allomancer or Feruchemist, unfortunately. 

-Probably some other stuff.......

So yes. I really like/relate to Wayne.

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8 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal I feel you. I feel you very much. Although my sibling is ill physically, not mentally (I'm the less neurotypical one in our family, although I was very vaguely diagnosed as "not seriously ill in any way" :D ) but yeah, I was always considered the more healthy, capable, and needing less care and attention.

I was like "poor Adolin" the whole time through WoR (in WoK even I thought him an cremhole. It took me a while to see through his mask. I'm sorry :D ) I know the fear of never being good enough a little too well. My parents just took everything I did for granted. So yeah, well, I really do understand this.

It's quite amazing how deep and diverse the cosmere characters are. I don't really know how someone can make up characters as deep as real people. Wow.

Each individual's story is different.

For instance, one of my cousin has severe cerebral palsy due to birthing issues at a time when it still happened :( I am still not entirely sure there weren't professional mistakes to blame, but needless to say, the child was born with a severe handicap. This cousin has an older brother who is basically amazing. Despite his family obviously needing to devote a lot of attention to the disabled child, managed not only to not grow wanting, but incredibly protective of his younger brother, even to this day despite them both being adults now. I find their relationship absolutely amazing and it truly is one case where disability brought a family closer together. 

It is hard to truly understand how one family can function as one unit while the other crumbles apart. What my experience as a child told me is you can't push out responsibilities onto a kid who's not ready to assume them, nor can you force him to understand concepts he doesn't have the maturity to understand. You should also refrain from endlessly overly praising each one of the disabled child accomplishment while ignoring the ones from the other child for fear of "creating jealousy". What my experience as a parent tells me is: this is much easier said than done :ph34r: 

Either way, having pressure to perform and little validation is hard to bear, no matter where it comes from and why it happens. I personally love how Brandon chose to represent a whole family as opposed to just one character. I find their dynamic to be overly interesting to read.

Yeah, it is rare to find readers who actually feel sorry for Adolin when reading WoR: a lot feel sorry for him now, but prior to WoR's ending? It is much rarer. To be honest, I thought the character would betray his father and steal power from himself, when first meeting him back in WoK :ph34r: At the time, not everything correlated: his behavior, his gesture didn't match with his inner thought, but it wasn't entirely obvious there was more to him than just the pretty arrogant rich boy. So yeah, it took me a while too... I think I must have saw through it somewhere towards the end of WoK as he ended up being my second favorite viewpoint to read, but I never truly thought about it until WoR. Now, after three years worth of discussion, I generally feel sorry for Adolin because I feel nobody is telling him they care about him, all seem to not care about his survival, including himself, too many are just trying to use him, including Dalinar.

I think to have the ability to make up deep plausible character requires an author to have a strong understanding of human behavior which I think Brandon does.

4 hours ago, Runeweaver said:

Do you think that, in the future Stormlight Archive books, Adolin's efforts will become clearer?

I hope it will, but everything with respect to Adolin has been hard to predict. Hopefully, Adolin's new flashback will go into the final version of the book and not within the 100K words which have been cut. 

For the rest, I find your post to be very touching, probably because I once thought within similar patterns. Everyone is looking for validation and when, for one reason or another, you can't find it, it is only natural to seek it through other means. I too once felt one had to be different, special, to have real hardships other would strongly feel for in order to get sympathy, empathy, something. I definitely understands wanting to be someone, to be the main protagonist of your own story and I definitely understand the anger, the disarray to find out just thinking it makes you.... unworthy, bratty.

You sound like a normal individual. The truth is, we all have our hardships and just because they don't carry out a label, it doesn't make them less real. 

 

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@maxal I started liking him somewhere in the beginning of WoR. His conversations with Shallan were amazing, how he tried to please her to the point of talking about totally uncomfortable topics and such.

Also, his relationship with Kaladin: firstly, I loved every single part of the book where these two met. The dynamic between them is awesome!!! But I also feel that Adolin both wants to be friends (and Kaladin still kind of hates him for being a privileged lighteyed brat and this stuff) and is jealous of Kaladin, because, well, for most of the time it looks like Dalinar likes him more than Adolin, which must be awful for him, considering everything we discussed before.

So yeah, I started understanding him somewhere around the beginning of WoR, as he started interacting with more people, and people his age. Of course, there was the conversation with Navani in WoK that could have told me he's not as he seems...but I can be a little dense sometimes, especially in people-related stuff :D

@I am Witless seriously, Wayne is close to being my most favourite mistborn character (if it wasn't for my crush on Kell :D ) nice to see someone who thinks they're like him! 

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15 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal I started liking him somewhere in the beginning of WoR. His conversations with Shallan were amazing, how he tried to please her to the point of talking about totally uncomfortable topics and such.

Also, his relationship with Kaladin: firstly, I loved every single part of the book where these two met. The dynamic between them is awesome!!! But I also feel that Adolin both wants to be friends (and Kaladin still kind of hates him for being a privileged lighteyed brat and this stuff) and is jealous of Kaladin, because, well, for most of the time it looks like Dalinar likes him more than Adolin, which must be awful for him, considering everything we discussed before.

So yeah, I started understanding him somewhere around the beginning of WoR, as he started interacting with more people, and people his age. Of course, there was the conversation with Navani in WoK that could have told me he's not as he seems...but I can be a little dense sometimes, especially in people-related stuff :D

I love Adolin and Shallan's first date because each was trying to go with what they thought the other expected: Shallan tried to act poised and refined while Adolin tried to be the uninteresting boring, but charming young man he believes others expect to meet. It all goes down the sewer when Shallan can't hide her natural curiosity and asked the question which forced Adolin to drop the mask. I have always considered them dropping their respective masks, for the shake of one embarrassing conversation, was more significant then the words they actually shared. The secret, I believe, doesn't matter so much as the personality: secrets can be told and forgotten, eventually, but personalities can't. Personality is what remains once the secret is out, thus I thought it was a very significant scene.

I also loved the Adolin/Kaladin short scenes scattered throughout the books. I thought it was both funny and sad to see Adolin try so hard to befriend grumpy Kaladin, never giving up despite Kaladin's obvious lack of interest. I always thought the fact Kaladin was a darkeyed might have been what allowed Adolin to be so forward about himself as what did Kaladin expect out of him but nothing? Mind, I suspect Dalinar will start to treat Kaladin more and more as a son, as the son he never had (and always wanted, a son whom would be completely honorable and able to impress him), which is likely to cause hardships to Adolin. His character isn't prone to envy other people's skills and/or power, but the one time he ever was jealous was when he felt Renarin got more parental attention than him (confirmed by WoB)... I thus wouldn't be surprised if those feelings resurfaced: Kaladin being doted and respected by Dalinar like he never was, Kaladin whom Shallan appears to prefer because he is oh so much more interesting than him, Kaladin who can't do no wrong. Kaladin this, Kaladin that and when he turns his head, it probably will be Renarin this, Renarin that. Have you noticed how Dalinar hugs Renarin beaming with pride towards the end of WoR when he finds out about him being a Radiant? Had he ever done the same to Adolin? Has he even told him he was proud he defeated the Shardbearers? On the surface, this is nothing, insignificant, but I do think the author has a lot of material he could explore with the character.

For my part, I really started ti invest myself within Adolin's character after the Jakamav chapter, where he refuses to be publicly seen with him because his reputation wasn't what it used to be. When Adolin is sadden over the realization he truly has no friend, except for his brother whom has no time for him, I truly felt sorry for him and it resonated a strong sympathy vibe in me. I really wanted the author to push onto this story arc and to explore it.

 

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