Immortality and Relationships

[TheBlueShifting]

So I've been stewing about this for reasons. I was remembering the scene in WoR when Shallan hugs Wit and Adolin starts to get all jealous because she had yet to be so openly affectionate with him. Adolin responds by citing how Wit is too old for Shallan, to which he wholeheartedly agrees. He mentions that there is only one other person of the female persuasion who would even come close to his age but that she hates him (I've heard Khriss is that person but I'm not sure I believe that) But this has got me thinking about the life of a Worldhopper, especially a long-lived one. If you are familiar with Dr. Who during the Rose Tyler story arch then you will be familiar with this issue.

It's the problem of falling in love. I mean, when you are 300 hundred going on infinity how could someone even see love and passion the same way? In their eyes, the people around them would be like a lovable dog. Wonderful and fulfilling, and yet their time is so short compared to our own. It's a sad fact that anyone who is effectively immortal would face the inevitable heartache of watching those they grow to love wither and die before their unchanging eyes. Now I used to think that it doesn't matter, but in reality, that prospect would probably make such relationships difficult. 

When thinking about this I asked Brandon in his most recent Reddit AMA if Worldhoppers had ever fallen in love and started families on other worlds. 

The TLDR; When Worldhoppers travel, they can and have entered into relationships and had children. This has sometimes given those children powers from another world (Think an allomancer being born on Roshar) Brand said that this has happened. Now I know what you are thinking, it's probably just Silverlight. But the question was specific and we know that Worldhoppers appear all over the place. It must have happened. It just gets me thinking. 

This post is mostly just me thinking about the nature of relationships for long-lived Worldhoppers. But I want to hear your thoughts about this issue. try to imagine watching those you love growing old and dying, and their children, and their children's children, while you are still the same. Perhaps these issues don't come up often because they would be too hard to bear so most avoid the issue.

Or worse, imagine learning that your SO will never age and you will grow frail before their eyes.

Please let me know what you think. Also, as a bonus, what are the chances that Hoid has had children before (maybe Sigzil?)

[Elenion]

I think worldhopper relationships might end up similar to the Returned relationships in Warbreaker, except that there's now kids to complicate matters. Knowing Brandon, Hoid has probably had relationships before, and his kids are making cameos in the story but not playing major roles.

 

[Zuff]

I always thought the "she" that Hoid was referring to was cultivation because they were both there for the shattering.

 

[The Technovore]

On 4/23/2017 at 6:50 PM, Elenion said:

and his kids are making cameos in the story

Wait what? What? WHAT? WHERE? WHEN? HOW?

 

I have many questions 

[Elenion]

20 hours ago, The Technovore said:

Wait what? What? WHAT? WHERE? WHEN? HOW?

 

I have many questions 

That was my speculation as to how Brandon might be trolling us with vague hints. Afaik there's no solid evidence to that effect.

[Alfa]

Less romantic variation of the same problem: khriss and nazh had a business relationship for at least 300 years from secret history (earliest confirmed spotting) till BoM (latest confirmed spotting). Likely they work together much longer (nazh wrote on the leatherbound edition elantris map). How do they suffer that for that long seems strange. I had problems with my boss even after several months. 

[Sheridan_rd]

On 4/23/2017 at 7:50 PM, Elenion said:

I think worldhopper relationships might end up similar to the Returned relationships in Warbreaker, except that there's now kids to complicate matters.

Biochromatic breaths definitely add some layers to the issue.  Brandon has confirmed that anyone can receive Breaths, so technically anybody can attain the 5th Heightening aka Immorality all be it expensively.  (Though a world hopping merchant could build a fortune easily enough).

So in addition for many world hoppers having the potential for Immortality, they could acquire it for their spouse as well.

[ccstat]

This is a question well worth pondering, both in general and in the specific case of the cosmere. Various works in fantasy and sci fi have tried over and over to address the general idea, and there are a lot of different ways such a relationship (mortal with immortal) could go. They run the gamut of awful to awesome, with and without regret/avoidance. I lean toward the hopeful side of things, but it's hard to say.

However, the cosmere is different. The first thing to point out (as @Sheridan_rd did) is that in the cosmere, immortality is really not that hard to come by. If Anna WorldHopper met Bob NormalDude, she has a lot more choices to consider beyond "walk away" or "watch him age and die." She can teach him how to worldhop and help him acquire some flavor of immortality that more-or-less matches her own. I have a hard time believing that a resourceful guy like Hoid avoids relationships for an easily-overcome reason like "oh no, they might die." If he wanted to, he could figure out a good way to share knowledge and/or power with someone he liked and trusted. In Hoid's case, his arrogance and other personality traits, along with his ambiguous-but-all-consuming goals, are much stronger barriers to forming a meaningful partnership.

I should also point out that Hoid (and presumably other worldhoppers) aren't necessarily as old as they may seem. Brandon has said that Hoid has not subjectively lived all of the time that has passed since the Shattering--by some as-yet-unexplained mechanism he is able to skip forward in time to the next moment of interest.

So that leads us to two more questions: What does a relationship look like between an ancient/experienced immortal and his/her newly-immortalized significant other? And (more interesting to me) how does a relationship work across centuries and millenia? @Alfa alluded to this above with the Nazh/Khriss partnership. We really don't have real-world experience with or examples of relationships (romantic or otherwise) lasting longer than a century. It is interesting to speculate how commitment and personality would play out on such a time scale. When life is extended dramatically or indefinitely, do relationships also extend or do they become more ephemeral by contrast? I imagine the answer is "both, depending on the individual," but at a societal level, or as a cultural trend, I have no idea.

[Calderis]

If you counted your age in millennia, I doubt anyone still within a natural lifespan would be of real romantic interest to begin with. 

Anyone who hadn't yet achieved some form of increased longevity on their own and discovered some of the greater aspects of the Cosmere would be a child. The issue stops being that they are going to die, and becomes finding someone with whom you can be an equal, and not a mentor. 

[+Extesian]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

If you counted your age in millennia, I doubt anyone still within a natural lifespan would be of real romantic interest to begin with. 

Anyone who hadn't yet achieved some form of increased longevity on their own and discovered some of the greater aspects of the Cosmere would be a child. The issue stops being that they are going to die, and becomes finding someone with whom you can be an equal, and not a mentor. 

Tell that you Arwen, Luthien and Idril

[Calderis]

25 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Tell that you Arwen, Luthien and Idril

Even good stories contain parts I disagree with (and perverts) 

[Elenion]

16 hours ago, Extesian said:

Tell that you Arwen, Luthien and Idril

 

16 hours ago, Calderis said:

Even good stories contain parts I disagree with (and perverts) 

To be fair, Arwen is young for an elf, and the blood of Numenor that Aragorn has gives him a longer lifespan than other men.