Survivor of Death- Second Misborn era/ Whats Kelsier up to?

[Excelsius]

So i just finished Mistborn: Secret History and in the Postscribtum Brandon mentions that he as a very clear idea what Kelsier is doing and will be dropping hints again.
Now we are two Books deep into the Second Era and maybe i need to re-read them with more cosmere awareness but i cant remember any hints of a Cognitiv/Cosmereaware Kelsier running around literally behind the scenes.

Have you any ideas what he is planning, maybe have even found the hints?

Edited April 18, 2017 by Excelsius
incomplete

[Stark]

Ummm...

 

Spoiler

We are three books into Era two...  Alloy of Law, Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning.  Have you read all three?

 

[The Sovereign]

6 minutes ago, Stark said:

Ummm...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

We are three books into Era two...  Alloy of Law, Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning.  Have you read all three?

 

Specifically, have you read the epilogue of Bands of Mourning?

[Excelsius]

I have read repeatetly that AOL is more of a connection book than part of one of the Trilogys <.<

And yes i have read all three but i may have to read that epilogue again, its been some time

 

okay i re-read it, so Kelsier went to South Scandrial and gave the People there hope and technology and he got a body somewhere (experiments with Spook?) and stayed down there as the Sovereign to help them.

 

[The Sovereign]

On 4/18/2017 at 4:36 PM, Excelsius said:

I have read repeatetly that AOL is more of a connection book than part of one of the Trilogys <.<

This is how the Era 2 books started out but they evolved quite a bit from their inception. Mistborn was origonally planned as three Trilogies and the AOL books were supposed to be an offshoot story. This has been changed and there are now 4 Eras of Mistborn rather than 3 Trilogies. They are quite Cosmerically relevant and to date are the best resource we have regarding Connection in the Cosmere. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by The Sovereign
Spelling is an undervalued thing...

[OrcusOfUndeath]

As people said he's actually 

Spoiler

The Sovereign that the Southerners were talking about. Their own version of a more benevolent Lord Ruler.

I'm actually expecting to see way more of Kelsier in the future or even the current Eras of Mistborn. And also some of the other Cosmere stories. Too much has been set up with him for there not to be a massive payoff and he seems to have begun to understand the Cosmere very rapidly. Not to mention his beef with Hoid.

[Djarskublar]

2 hours ago, OrcusOfUndeath said:

As people said he's actually 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Sovereign that the Southerners were talking about. Their own version of a more benevolent Lord Ruler.

I'm actually expecting to see way more of Kelsier in the future or even the current Eras of Mistborn. And also some of the other Cosmere stories. Too much has been set up with him for there not to be a massive payoff and he seems to have begun to understand the Cosmere very rapidly. Not to mention his beef with Hoid.

Welcome to the Shard.

Spoiler

The thing is, though, is that memory should be very old. It was soon after HoA, probably within a few years. Otherwise, the SoScads wouldn't have survived. That means Kel has had hundreds of years to run around meddling in everything. And I took it to mean he basically saved them, taxed them to build the temple, and then left. I don't think he stuck around ruling for a few decades centuries first.

On that note, Kel is a Cognitive Shadow now, so does he age with his new body? He wouldn't pass Beyond if his body died, so does it matter? My guess is that he doesn't age any more, but if he does, he can 'just' get a new body every few decades.

[Obnoxiousspren]

4 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Welcome to the Shard.

  Reveal hidden contents

The thing is, though, is that memory should be very old. It was soon after HoA, probably within a few years. Otherwise, the SoScads wouldn't have survived. That means Kel has had hundreds of years to run around meddling in everything. And I took it to mean he basically saved them, taxed them to build the temple, and then left. I don't think he stuck around ruling for a few decades centuries first.

On that note, Kel is a Cognitive Shadow now, so does he age with his new body? He wouldn't pass Beyond if his body died, so does it matter? My guess is that he doesn't age any more, but if he does, he can 'just' get a new body every few decades.

I don't think it's a "new" body per say, I think it's actually his old body. He does still have the scars on his forearms as we see from the memory Hoid gave Wax. I think Spook and Kelsier probably just healed his old body with Hemalurgy and Feruchemy and he went back into it. I mean, we already know from Mistborn that the Lord Ruler healed his body after being reduced to a skeleton...

[Excelsius]

3 hours ago, Obnoxiousspren said:

I think it's actually his old body.

But the Kandra have/had his Bones. But then there is a WoB that indicates we will see the Bones again...

[Toaster Retribution]

3 hours ago, Excelsius said:

But the Kandra have/had his Bones. But then there is a WoB that indicates we will see the Bones again...

Would it be possible to hijack a kandra/mistwraith and put Kelsiers Cognitive Shadow in it through hemalurgy? Then he could build his old body up from the bones.

I am not very good at hemalurgy, or cognitive shadows, but if this far-fetched idea is correct, it would basically make Kelsier a kandra.

[OrcusOfUndeath]

11 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Welcome to the Shard.

Good to be here.

3 hours ago, Excelsius said:

But the Kandra have/had his Bones. But then there is a WoB that indicates we will see the Bones again...

I actually think its possible to recreate his old body using his bones, based on his Cognitive Shadow. We know that Kandra can change appearances and mold their bodies, so I don't think why it would be a stretch to recreate a body, given material and Hemalurgy. He just needed a Connection back to his physical self and there could be ways of doing this with Hemalurgy or something else. I could imagine Cognitive Kelsier going to capture some Breath (or Spook) and then animating his bones (or just using the same mechanic as the Returned) and creating a Connection and then keeping the body via Hemalurgy. If Kelsier himself can't manage to do this because he's a Cognitive Shadow, someone else maybe could create the Connection. I think being a Sliver can only help this situation.

[Obnoxiousspren]

1 hour ago, OrcusOfUndeath said:

Good to be here.

I actually think its possible to recreate his old body using his bones, based on his Cognitive Shadow. We know that Kandra can change appearances and mold their bodies, so I don't think why it would be a stretch to recreate a body, given material and Hemalurgy. He just needed a Connection back to his physical self and there could be ways of doing this with Hemalurgy or something else. I could imagine Cognitive Kelsier going to capture some Breath (or Spook) and then animating his bones (or just using the same mechanic as the Returned) and creating a Connection and then keeping the body via Hemalurgy. If Kelsier himself can't manage to do this because he's a Cognitive Shadow, someone else maybe could create the Connection. I think being a Sliver can only help this situation.

Well, if somebody needed to go offworld to in order to make the process work Kelsier can't do it. Brandon says so in an interview, that he is connected to Scadrial and can't leave as a Cognitive Shadow. He said if he had a physical body he could leave. I could find it if you'd like.

1 hour ago, Chull #445 said:

Would it be possible to hijack a kandra/mistwraith and put Kelsiers Cognitive Shadow in it through hemalurgy? Then he could build his old body up from the bones.

I am not very good at hemalurgy, or cognitive shadows, but if this far-fetched idea is correct, it would basically make Kelsier a kandra.

I doubt Spook or Kelsier or Sazed would be ok hijacking a Kandra, so I don't think that's the route they took.

Going back to the original topic, I do think Kelsier is offplanet or at least will be soon. He found out about the greater Cosmere in Secret History and very quickly seemed interested in it. Besides, he is too curious to just stick around Scadrial. Personally, I think he's going to go around collecting magic systems, kind of like what we see Hoid doing. I think he will start meddling on whatever world he likes, although I don't know what his overall purpose or plan would be... maybe he wants to see if he can get a Shard somehow? I'm just spitballing at this point.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Obnoxiousspren

[OrcusOfUndeath]

4 hours ago, Obnoxiousspren said:

Well, if somebody needed to go offworld to in order to make the process work Kelsier can't do it. Brandon says so in an interview, that he is connected to Scadrial and can't leave as a Cognitive Shadow. He said if he had a physical body he could leave. I could find it if you'd like.

It would work just as well if Spook went to get Breath or some other form of investiture capable of forming a Connection. I think Breath is the safest one so far as we know for a fact that it can renew a Connection. But a mix of Divine Breath and Hemalurgy would be the way to go if you'd want to revive Kelsier permanently. And essentially make him immortal. Imagine using a fresh Spike on a Returned. You'd essentially be getting a sizeable Splinter of Endowment in your Hemalurgic spike. And if they had any additional breath that would just be a bonus.

Edited April 22, 2017 by OrcusOfUndeath

[Excelsius]

2 hours ago, OrcusOfUndeath said:

Imagine using a fresh Spike on a Returned.

And then sticking that into a Cosmere aware Kelsier who is confirmed by Brandon to be very instable and could turn villain at any time?
This sounds like its going to be very interesting.

[Obnoxiousspren]

1 hour ago, Excelsius said:

And then sticking that into a Cosmere aware Kelsier who is confirmed by Brandon to be very instable and could turn villain at any time?
This sounds like its going to be very interesting.

In addition, Kelsier would definitely NOT like the Returned as we know them. People who just happen to be reborn, are worshiped as gods, feed on other's investiture to rule the land and live lavish lifestyles while ignoring poverty around them? Yeah he won't do well around those guys. I don't think he'd lose much sleep killing one of them to make a hemalurgic spike.

[OrcusOfUndeath]

38 minutes ago, Excelsius said:

And then sticking that into a Cosmere aware Kelsier who is confirmed by Brandon to be very instable and could turn villain at any time?
This sounds like its going to be very interesting.

Well Kelsier has always been the type of person to not really care about anyone but his friends (and sometimes more about his goals than them). By the end of Secret History he seemed to be more compassionate thought. I don't think he'll be a true villain, but he'll always be a morally questionable character.

Also, I think Hemalurgy will be able to capture the Breath without it consuming itself ever. And that's kind of the whole thing with Hemalurgy. It steals power. So basically a splinter of Endowment would be spliced into Kelsier. And if the theory that Divine Breath consumes itself because the dead need the energy to survive and they can't live any other way because they are dead, I think that would not apply to Kelsier for a few reasons. First he will always have a piece of Preservation in him (plus he's also a sliver of Adonalsium) and second because he would then be kept alive not by Breath but by the Hemalurgic charge within all the spikes and third he could burn feruchemical atium and gold. He just needs the Breath to create a Connection, nothing more. And so I think that the Breath will not consume itself in any of these cases.

 

[Calderis]

The biggest problem here is that Hemalurgy requires knowledge of bind points and intent. How would anyone unfamiliar with the returned and breath be able to use a spike to steal breath from a Returned? They'd have to know the bind point to steal breath, and that's not exactly something they can easily experiment to find. 

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Calderis
Posted an edit in the wrong thread

[Obnoxiousspren]

25 minutes ago, Calderis said:

The biggest problem here is that Hemalurgy requires knowledge of bind points and intent. How would anyone unfamiliar with the returned and breath be able to use a spike to steal breath from a Returned? They'd have to know the bind point to steal breath, and that's not exactly something they can easily experiment to find. 

You've got a good point here. Kelsier did see a lot when he ascended, so maybe it's something he just knows. Being honest though, I don't think he'd need a Breath to bring himself back to life. I think he could just manage it with some hemalurgy tricks. I mean, Sazed didn't really know details about the greater Cosmere when he talked to Kelsier but he knew that Kelsier could bring himself back to life.

[OrcusOfUndeath]

23 minutes ago, Calderis said:

The biggest problem here is that Hemalurgy requires knowledge of bind points and intent. How would anyone unfamiliar with the returned and breath be able to use a spike to steal breath from a Returned? They'd have to know the bind point to steal breath, and that's not exactly something they can easily experiment to find. 

Don't forget that Kelsier is a Sliver. He can see Investiture now. And seeing Divine Breath would be fairly easy I recon. Knowing bind point on Scadrial can help them greatly in any case.

[Calderis]

Just now, OrcusOfUndeath said:

Don't forget that Kelsier is a Sliver. He can see Investiture now. And seeing Divine Breath would be fairly easy I recon. Knowing bind point on Scadrial can help them greatly in any case.

He can see... Can you explain?

[OrcusOfUndeath]

Just now, Calderis said:

He can see... Can you explain?

A Sliver has an innate ability to notice forms of Investiture.

[Calderis]

Do you have a source for that? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never seen anything even implying that, and it's kind of a big deal. 

[OrcusOfUndeath]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Do you have a source for that? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never seen anything even implying that, and it's kind of a big deal. 

I looked it up on wikia and seems I misremembered.

 

It says this: This residue has many effects, one of which is that a person who is capable of noticing Investiture would be able to look at someone and tell that they are a Sliver.

I mean its not clear 100% to me what this means with Theoryland down

Edited April 22, 2017 by OrcusOfUndeath

[The One Who Connects]

@Obnoxiousspren Kel held Preservation though and not Ruin, so he could not have learned anything of Hemalurgy while doing so.

@OrcusOfUndeath Kel could see the light of Investiture by being in the Cognitive Realm, even before becoming a sliver. Neither Vin nor TLR had made any comments implying that they could see Investiture while in the Physical Realm, and given that Vin fights invested foes in book 3, it is safe to say Sliver Status does not grant the ability to see Investiture.

Either way, Calderis is correct. Kelsier has no way of knowing what metal to use to spike out Divine Breath, if it was even spikable(normal breaths are not), or where to place the spike in himself. And all three of these points require him to understand the concept of Divine Breath in the first place.

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, OrcusOfUndeath said:

I looked it up on wikia and seems I misremembered.

 

It says this: This residue has many effects, one of which is that a person who is capable of noticing Investiture would be able to look at someone and tell that they are a Sliver.

So it's possible that if Lift ever runs into Kel, she'd know something is different about him. That's... Interesting.