• Announcements

    • Chaos

      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
      Part 3 Reactions
      Part 4 Reactions
      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.
Robinski

Robinski - 170417 - TMM, Chapters 19 and 20 - 4792 words (LSD)

14 posts in this topic

Dear all,

Many thanks of reading if you have the opportunity and all comments most welcome.

I've flagged with a 'D', because there is mention of drugs, but there is no actual drug-taking.

Many thanks, Robinski

Chapter 1: On the Moon, Dr. John Mills tests An-con's new tech by putting crippled ex-miner Callan into an android using synaptic mapping.

Chapter 2: Quirk arrives on Earth and travels to Milan, where he puts an envelope in a bin then meets a nice lady. They have tea/coffee. [2,899] – 1

Chapter 3: Orphaned Moth discovers Giulia's task for Uncle Toni and takes it over, then gets an android social-worker from La Madre. [2,692] – 2

Chapter 4: Moth takes the train to Milan in the company of Grimes, leaves him at his hotel and makes the pick-up for Toni. [2,738] – 3

Chapter 5: Quirk is accosted by a cop when walking with La donna. Callan struggles with his situation.

Chapter 6: Grimes meets with Toni and enacts the plot to kill the Capo. [3,394] – 4

Chapter 7: Quirk meets with Toni and signs up to look after Moth. [2,911] – 5

Chapter 8: Quirk and Moth go to the convent and are accosted. S-778 saves the day, but actually doesn’t. Quirk messages PPF. [3,878] – 6

Chapter 9:  Callan’s struggles continue. Quirk, Moth and S-0778 go to the spaceport and buy a plane ticket.

Chapter 10: Quirk, Moth and S-0778 are on an airplane. Callan’s situation deteriorates. [5,038] – 7

Chapter 11: Quirk, Moth and S-0778 board the space elevator and start the journey up.

Chapter 12: Another interview between Callan and Mills. Quirk wakes up on the space elevator having an attack.

Chapter 13: Quirk discusses the case with Moth and 778. More of Moth and Quirk’s nerve chaffing. They arrive at GS1. [5,063] – 8

Chapter 14: Another Callan / Mills interview. Callan kills Mills.

Chapter 15: Quirk, Moth and Eight transit from GS1 to the Moon. Moth talks him into taking her to meet the lawyer from PPF.

Chapter 16: Quirk, Moth and Eight arrive at LV. Quirk and Moth meet and are briefed by Mary Q of PPF. [4,555] – 9

Chapter 17: The briefing with Mary concludes. Quirk meets with Heinrich Schuler of An-con. Callan walks the streets of Luna.

Chapter 18: Callan kills again. Quirk, Moth and Eight do some detecting. Quirk and Moth search Mills’ apartment with Mary. [4,901] – 10

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall

Good pacing and good meat to the story. Good progression. I got lost at the end with a few too many turns. Also I think you should move the android motivations earlier on and expound upon them some. Nice work!

As I go

- page 162: we're just now getting backstory on the android, and motivations. I think this should have come a lot earlier. Like, chapter two or three.

- page 164: I'm not sure I'm understanding. The company moved operations to the moon so they wouldn't be under as strict of laws about employee safety? Is that right?

- 164: I think Callahan's descent to death machine is too sudden. I'm not buying his motivations. It might be worth it to introduce parts of this chapter much earlier, and then show him progressively getting more and more violent, until he gets to this 'kill them all with fire' point.

- 168: Suave Quirk has left the building? He's irritating Mary, and that seems... again, not the Quirk we first met

- 169: What is the comment about calming down about? It comes off really patronizing without context

- 170: wait what? Mary has given no outward signs of liking Quirk at all, and I think he insulted her a page ago. They're just going to boink now? *disbelief*

- 171: Wouldn't Quirk call them 'panties' or 'lingerie' or something kind of fancy, noting his love of clothing and women? Knickers seems like an off word choice here

- 173: the foundation quip work, although Quirk notes they are both wearing suits, but doesn't give details. I thought he was into suits?

- 175: personality between our android murdered and Quirk sort of blends together this page

- 179: my head is spinning from too much plot too fast, I think. I'm a lot lost

- 180: why did the cops go so quickly from interrogation to help? Also lost here

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the content tags I was expecting something more... psychedelic. ;)

These chapters were a fun read, but there are some things that are inconsistent (or just weird developments) with the previous material.
C.'s character development doesn't really track for me, I agree with Kais that the progression into full-on killbot is rather rapid. He also switched from "crazed sex robot" to "vengeful homicidal crusader" in the space of a single chapter, which is more serious IMO. The OCD traits are also a strange addition.
Ma. suddenly jumping Q. came out of nowhere, it needs better foreshadowing and/or more reasons than "
but there’s no one I’ve been able to open up to.”

p161 "He walked the female-shaped android in", that would technically make it a gynoid.

p162 "...occupied by androids charging," I think "charging androids" would be better.

p164 "...just another GC flunky, screwing all they could from him." This phrasing would mean Mi. was the one doing the screwing.

p169 "bright, blue overshoes", no comma I think, since bright refers to blue and not to shoe.

p170 Nice twist with the cops. I immediately thought the same thing as Q. (The lawyer screwed me! And not in the way I was expecting.)

p172-173 so is Me. supposed to be French or Dutch? From the name and ‘slimmerick’ I'd say Dutch, but why throw in a 'Monsieur' then?

p174 "I'm not that good an actress.” so is she a bad actress telling the truth, or such a good actress that she can make Q. believe she's a bad actress. I guess we'll find out by the end of the book.

p176 "so he’s a good seven hours ahead of us." plus 12 days IIRC.

 

I'm looking forward to the next installment, which is normal, but usually it's (mainly) because I like your writing style, now I'm also wondering how the new elements I currently consider odd are important/necessary to the story.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Similar thoughts to @kais and @Eagle of the Forest Path on this one. I was confused in several parts. These chapters seemed very jumpy, for some reason. I didn't always follow the logic, and I'm still very confused at Ma. propositioning Q. C's character continues to elude me as well. Do you have his particular mental issues pinned down? Right now they read as all over the place.

Interested to see what happens with the cops, but I think this section needs to be shored up a little to make sure the plot is heading in one direction.


pg 161: "He came to a shop opposite which, along a wood-effect wall, were ten fold-down chairs three of which were occupied by androids charging, their violet eyes dull, staring straight ahead. "
--had to read this sentence several times.

pg 162: "He only just now saw the scale of it"
--Actually seeing it, or thinking it? He is searching on the internet...

pg 165: "Unless, unless, unless… Unless there was a better way"
--This is a 180 turnaround from what C was just thinking. Seemed like he was intent on killing people.

pg 166/167: Not completely following the reasoning with the numbers and what Q is missing.

pg 170: “I’ve been on the Moon a long time..., but there’s no one I’ve been able to open up to.”
--Eh? This is weird. I can only assume Ma. is trying to get him arrested? Honestly, I'm surprised he didn't see through it.

pg 175: “Calm down, Q, sort your head out. You think I did that?"
--So Ma. actually came on to him that awkwardly in the middle of a crime scene? Really?

pg 176: the dialogue here is getting pretty explainy.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- It might be good to go into some detail about how Callan had "fun" dressing the female android. It doesn't require too much description, but right now it seems kind of vague.

- I like the twist at the end of the first chapter.

- Accusing Quirk of not being the hero of the story seems a little too on the nose.

- The procedural bit of what follows is interesting enough, if a little exposition heavy. Looking forward to seeing where this going though now that the plot is kicking into high gear. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Add my vote to the "this is confusing" pile... 

 

Callahan continues to underwhelm. Here we have him doing M & Q's investigation work, and being exceedingly dull about it. Why is this info better served through C than it would be for Q&M to discover it? If it's available from public websurfing (also, an entire chapter of websurfing and infodumping is not particularly interesting. Q&M would at least have some banter around all of this), then literally ANYONE could serve these plot points to the reader. Callahan is not compelling, his journey is uninteresting, and I feel nothing for him but growing disgust. I once again question his inclusion as a POV character, since he is actively hurting your primary plot. Why do I care what Q&M are doing to chase him down? I-as-a-reader already know where C is and what he's doing, why he's doing it, and how he's going to get it done. Every C chapter since the reveal makes Q&M more superfluous. Since I assume C is not your recurring series regular (it's not C's Big Body Count under the main title after all), what is the purpose of putting us so far in his head and letting him sabotage the momentum of your main characters?

 

"said S-0778 softly " first sentence is a run-on

 

"which left no fingerprints" the bag or the android? 

 

"full complement of war paint" ... "with a little light gilding" these phrases do not agree with each other. "war paint" when referring to makeup tends to imply heavy application (my dictionary says "elaborate or excessively applied makeup." for war-paint), but "little light" seems to belie that (the gilding the lily reference is referring to her natural beauty and not the makeup). So is she in full-on cake or just a 5-minute face? 

 

Okay.. that's random. That's super random and weird. Did I somehow miss ANY kind of come-on with lady lawyer in the previous chapter? 'cause that's super strip-the-gears-and-grind-the-plot-to-a-screeching-halt  random. I mean, I wasn't very clear on the investigations to begin with (and as a high-volume consumer of police procedurals, it's not often I get derailed by even shaky investigations) and then random sex and then... left turn to random town? I feel like pointless travel is the only through-line these chapters have at the moment. 

 

Also, where's M? She's got to have gotten in to something with all this time spent alone...

 

 Why is Q arrested now? This is a bit of WRS, but what the heck is going on around the investigation that he's getting the cops from Gravity Falls on his case? From what I can tell, he's done very little investigating at all, having left most of it to the villainous McGuffin. And then the cops're flip-flopping like summer thong shoe? I am really confused. 

 

Overall, these chapters feel very uneven. In pacing, I don't know what i'm supposed to be interested in or where the plot is going (or even if it's going anywhere) and I'm confused as to what's being played for laughs and just isn't funny, and what's supposed to be tense and serious and just comes off as silly. I don't have a clear sense of how much time has passed or where all the players are on the field, even when time and location are mentioned. The only thing steady about Q at the moment is how much he's vacillating in characterization and tone.  It's like you're aiming for one thing, but subconsciously you're really writing towards another

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey @Kais, thank you for reading. I'm glad you're feeling the pacing working now - just need to sort out that travel in some way!

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

I think this should have come a lot earlier. Like, chapter two or three.

Yeah, I'm reluctant to move the whole scene, but I see the need for trailing these issues much earlier. Will do.

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

moved operations to the moon so they wouldn't be under as strict of laws about employee safety? Is that right?

Yup. Nasty old company (boo, hiss).

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

I think Callahan's descent to death machine is too sudden.

Fair comment - I will seek to do that.

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

not the Quirk we first met

I'm on it.

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

It comes off really patronizing

Edited.

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

Knickers seems like an off word choice

I was going for, well quirky, I suppose. I'm going to change it.

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

I thought he was into suits?

I added "Both detectives were wearing suits, so bad that Quirk couldn’t identify the tailor."

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

too much plot too fast, I think. I'm a lot lost

I'll work on softening that.

On 18/04/2017 at 4:10 AM, kais said:

why did the cops go so quickly from interrogation to help?

That wasn't my intention - edited to show that Pop doubts Quirk is telling the truth.

Comments very much appreciated, thank you Kais :) 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Eagle, thanks for reading - much appreciated.

On 18/04/2017 at 9:29 AM, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

technically make it a gynoid

Hmm, I need to think on that.

On 18/04/2017 at 9:29 AM, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

bright, blue overshoes", no comma I think, since bright refers to blue and not to shoe

Nice catch :) 

On 18/04/2017 at 9:29 AM, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

but why throw in a 'Monsieur' then

Heh - well, I was heading towards him being Belgian, but Flemish is like the only language not included in G**gle translate - so, it ended up a bit of the jumble. I've swapped 'monsieur' out and introduced 'meneer', making him Dutch.

On 18/04/2017 at 9:29 AM, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

I'm looking forward to the next installment, which is normal, but usually it's (mainly) because I like your writing style, now I'm also wondering how the new elements I currently consider odd are important/necessary to the story.

Err, great! I think... :lol:  Thanks for the comments, they totally helped tidy some stuff up.

<R>

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Robinski said:

Heh - well, I was heading towards him being Belgian, but Flemish is like the only language not included in G**gle translate - so, it ended up a bit of the jumble. I've swapped 'monsieur' out and introduced 'meneer', making him Dutch.

Ah, I'm Belgian, and I have to admit Flemish is not actually a distinct language. It's basically Dutch, really. It's sort of like the difference between British English and American English. So "Dutch" on G**gle translate works for either nationality.

Most people are bilingual (Dutch-French) to some degree, but it's very rare to find someone who'd address you as "monsieur" and then add commentary in Dutch (unless you're having a conversation in French, in that case the Dutch might be backtalk the French-speaker is not meant to understand).

If you decide to go back to the Belgian route, here's a speech tic I hear rather often from other Flemish people when speaking English: a lot of us add "eh" to the end of every (or every other) sentence. Drives me nuts when I hear it, but it might add that authentic "chocolates, waffles, and chips" flavour to the character.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

a lot of us add "eh" to the end of every (or every other) sentence. Drives me nuts when I hear it, but it might add that authentic "chocolates, waffles, and chips" flavour to the character

Hey, thanks Eagle - that's really helpful. The addition of 'eh' might be problematic though, that's such a Canadian stereotype, and my wife is Canadian, so it would tend to cause... issues for my beta reader!! 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, thanks for reading, Man - much appreciated.

On 18/04/2017 at 8:29 PM, Mandamon said:

Do you have his particular mental issues pinned down?

I do not, and that's lazy on my part. It would be glib to say that 'all over the place' is what I was going for. I need to give it more thought. Duly tagged.

On 18/04/2017 at 8:29 PM, Mandamon said:

had to read this sentence several times

Err - yes, that's messed up. Edited.

On 18/04/2017 at 8:29 PM, Mandamon said:

Unless, unless, unless… Unless there was a better way"
--This is a 180 turnaround from what C was just thinking

Really just meant a better way of exacting revenge.

On 18/04/2017 at 8:29 PM, Mandamon said:

Not completely following the reasoning with the numbers and what Q is missing

Supplemented a little.

On 18/04/2017 at 8:29 PM, Mandamon said:

I can only assume Ma. is trying to get him arrested? Honestly, I'm surprised he didn't see through it

I've added a soupçon of scepticism on Q's part - just a hint.

Those are really helpful comments, thank you. Serval changes made and yet more notes for Edit No.2!!

:) 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Robinski said:

Hey, thanks Eagle - that's really helpful. The addition of 'eh' might be problematic though, that's such a Canadian stereotype, and my wife is Canadian, so it would tend to cause... issues for my beta reader!! 

I see, it's not quite the same 'eh' though. Our version sounds more like 'meh' without the m. :P 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey RD, thanks for reading, much appreciated.

On 19/04/2017 at 0:12 AM, rdpulfer said:

Accusing Quirk of not being the hero of the story seems a little too on the nose.

Hah, this was a fairly direct reference to WE commenting about how villains usually are the heroes in their heads. Maybe too direct - I'll think on it.

On 19/04/2017 at 0:12 AM, rdpulfer said:

if a little exposition heavy

Yeah, I'm going to review that in the next edit; it's been flagged a lot.

I'm glad there are things that work. Your use of the term 'high gear' is very encouraging :)

Many thanks for the comments.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Thank you for reading, Dragon - much appreciated, some good challenging comments here!

On 19/04/2017 at 0:19 AM, industrialistDragon said:

Why is this info better served through C than it would be for Q&M to discover it?

I'm not sure why Q&M would discover the Geocorp stuff, as they aren't investigating them.

On 19/04/2017 at 0:19 AM, industrialistDragon said:

what is the purpose of putting us so far in his head and letting him sabotage the momentum of your main characters?

I'll need to mull on this. Q's motivation, to large extent, is do a job a get paid, so he is removed from the primary source of the motivation at the moment, although there is the threat of some kind of action against him if this or that happens. I do need to work on Q's reactions to just about everything.

On 19/04/2017 at 0:19 AM, industrialistDragon said:

"which left no fingerprints" the bag or the android?

The droid - fixed.

On 19/04/2017 at 0:19 AM, industrialistDragon said:

So is she in full-on cake or just a 5-minute face?

Edited - thanks, good point.

On 19/04/2017 at 0:19 AM, industrialistDragon said:

Why is Q arrested now?

Yes, this is a hole - I need to fix this.

On 19/04/2017 at 0:19 AM, industrialistDragon said:

what the heck is going on around the investigation that he's getting the cops from Gravity Falls on his case?

Lol - I'm not familiar with their work, but thanks for the link :)

On 19/04/2017 at 0:19 AM, industrialistDragon said:

Overall, these chapters feel very uneven.

Yeah - I have quite a bit to do. All I can do is call first draft.

Thanks for these comments, ID; really helpful to set my focus.

:) 

Edited by Robinski
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.