TWD - Chapter 08 - kais 04/10/17 5210 words

[kais]

I swear, I cut like 500 words out of this chapter already! Argh. Sorry it's over again. If you only have time to read part, I totally understand. 

[Mandamon]

Lots of changes to this one! I have to say I think I like the earlier version I read better...S was more proactive in that one, I thought.

Notes while reading:

pg 1: The whole section with the "impractical cleavage" seems slightly off. Is that not something that happens when women show off in this world? Or is S so insulated that S doesn't know this is a thing? I'm not saying it isn't impractical, just that the busty serving woman is already a trope, so trying to explain it seems weird.

pg 2: "Have you see the Royal Daughter "
--seen

pg 4: I'm still not completely sure why the note addresses S as a carpenter.

pg 6: If you're still looking for things to cut, I haven't really seen much impact from S investigating the miniature house.

pg 10: "It was just a witch"
--I'd still maintain that unknown magical forces could be something to fear, especially when used against you.

pg 11: “Why? Let’s have a discussion"
--I like that S tries to talk through someone magicing at S.

pg 12: Aw--I liked S throwing the powders at the witch. Seems like that got cut? S was at least doing something proactive to get out of the situation.

pg 15: "Still learning the basics, as you can see."
--this doesn't quite work--I don't think a basic tenet of alchemy is invisibility or appearing out of nowhere. The trappers do call M on it, though.

pg 15: M telling S to trip doesn't make a lot of sense--was it just to diffuse tension? Because now it leads directly into the insults the men call out, which makes M getting upset less effective. Not that the statements aren't bad, but M put S in a position where the men could easily give derogatory comments.

pg 16: "Get yourself a good sword out of it."
--Still not exactly sure what this means. I'm thinking it's sexual slang, but based on the comments about transfer of power, it could be an actual magical sword?

pg 17: "Who was this witch, with my hair and my father’s eyes?"
--The chapter as it is now doesn't really indicate the man is a witch.

pg 18: "but Sameer"
--The man also didn't give a name, so it's not as clear S is talking about the man. If S recognized the name, S should recognize the person on sight, right?

[kais]

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

my mind clear sky indicates that it should be warm, since the sun is shining and all

Climate fun! In very cold places if there wasn't cloud cover overnight, a clear sky in the morning means biting cold!

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

How does S. know that it was an hour or more?

It's sort of a sleeping together thing, which S should know, because S and M shared a bed together frequently as children. That was the memory I was trying to evoke, anyway.

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

why should they suspect the knight doesn't

Quite right. Editing.

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

Did they memorize every single traveler other than the knights?

WRS I think. There were only a few people last night, and S took note.

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

M. for instance, she's in the near, right? - don't hear or see S. Are they under spell as well?

I can't do much explaining on the magic because it's first person and S doesn't understand it at all (somewhat willfully, I might add). I'm trying for a bit of unreliable narrating, too, so the views you get here, especially, might not be entirely indicative of what magic actually is

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

but S. heard them calling M. "Royal Daughter" just lines above

Aheh... edits...

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

Suggestive jokes, I do not care of them here.

They're scattered here and there in the story, for a very particular purposes. Sorry about that.

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

I feel like the mood reverted too quickly, to be honest.

Yeah, I should pull this out more I think

On 4/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Ernei said:

it read forced and grotesque, TBH, especially after the seriousness of the part before (which I enjoyed, like, vastly). Also, under matriarchy, I kinda expect men to be a little subdued? I guess. This might be why it read odd to me, since women are clearly the privileged gender in this country.

There is a subplot here that is slowly coming out. I've added a bit more to it in chapter two in rewrites, so you're more in the dark than I'd like. But I did want to have a reason for a matriarchy, especially since I'm modeling a period in Europe (although not the landscape or climate). But if it helps, M shares your disgust and will discuss it at length next chapter.

Thank you for the comments!

[kais]

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Lots of changes to this one!

This book is killing me. I've rewritten the end like five times now. In this current incarnation, Sam isn't a witch at all, so I had to change things up here. I understand the point about action. I put the pigment part back in. Hopefully that strikes the right balance.

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

just that the busty serving woman is already a trope, so trying to explain it seems weird.

Oh I agree it's a strange thing to notice, but I'm trying to show an aspect to S's worldview here in that 1) S doesn't frequent taverns and 2) S doesn't view breasts in the same way as M. It matters later. If it sticks out here, that's good. If it's too jarring, that's not.

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

I'm still not completely sure why the note addresses S as a carpenter.

Because of things I've changed. Continuity error!

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

I haven't really seen much impact from S investigating the miniature house.

It's a placeholder for right now. There's another subplot that needs to go in. It's missing right now. I apologize. Draft zero and all.

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

could be something to fear,

Clarified!

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Seems like that got cut?

But now back because I thought about this most of the day, and you are right! So, 6000 word chapter returns!

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

M telling S to trip doesn't make a lot of sense--was it just to diffuse tension? Because now it leads directly into the insults the men call out, which makes M getting upset less effective. Not that the statements aren't bad, but M put S in a position where the men could easily give derogatory comments.

I think I need help figuring this out. I've drawn out the scene so that S trips onto the chair, the chair then collapses, then S rolls into a table and beer pours over S. More comedy. This needs to, somehow, break the tension so that S looks utterly incompetent and the trappers are not longer threatened. This has the unintended consequence of lowering S even farther, and the trappers make crude jokes to save face for being intimidated by a junior witch. In the end, derogatory comments are better than knives, and M is showing an understanding of how crowds and appearance work. But if its not working its not working and I ask for help!

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Still not exactly sure what this means. I'm thinking it's sexual slang, but based on the comments about transfer of power, it could be an actual magical sword?

I put more information in about this in chapter two. I might sub that little paragraph with my next sub, just to catch everyone up. What I'm trying for though, is to not be too upfront with it, because it doesn't affect S they same way it does M, or other women. So if we were in third limited I could a switch to really hammer the obscenity of the queendom's past, but this first person thing is hard, yo! Hopefully after I sub the little paragraph I can get some feedback on if that clears things up.

7 hours ago, Mandamon said:

he chapter as it is now doesn't really indicate the man is a witch.

Aheh.... forgot to change that bit!

7 hours ago, Mandamon said:

The man also didn't give a name,

Agh, he did, but it was subtle. I'll pull it out more.

Thank you for reading again, and being patient with all the changes. Onwards!

[Robinski]

I am looking forward to this. Let’s rock-n-roll  

• “wool blankets” – you and @Mandamon both do this. To my ear, this isn’t ‘right’. I’m interested to know why you don’t say ‘woollen’ in this situation. ‘He knocked on the wood door.’ I mean, what?

• “the softness of one who has borne children” – not especially clear; I presume you mean birth weight never entirely lost. As a parent, I know you’re not talking about her temperament.

• Okay, I’m going to stick my neck out (again) and wade into this (mixed metaphor, but I'm not sorry). Why, if Mag is into large-chested ladies, and has made a point of ogling more than one in Sor’s presence, would Sor think that Mag had brought them along as a bed-mate?

• “One of the others said she left early this morning, but wouldn’t give any details as to her location. We’re to wait here for her to return.” – I'm prepared to believe that these knights are well educated, if that’s what you want them to be, but this seems awfully fancy for casual conversation, even for higher echelons of society.

• “things like philosophers’ stones” – And this bit of dialogue is pretty darn serving-person-and-butler, imho.

• “The lack of country national affiliation will be useful”

• “and slathered another piece of bread” – lather is foamy, right? Sorry, I’ve slipped into LBL mode.

• “More low-class chairs” – suggest ‘low quality’ or ‘poor quality’. This sounds more like description of a person’s social standing.

• “Next to it was a tree with maple leaves” – this sounds weird. I know what you mean, but I want it to say ‘Maple tree’.

• “All the ones from last night were here in the main room, eating various parts of the breakfast” – too much information.

• “but the joinery was perfectly cut” – I would say the wood is perfectly cut. The joinery is the act of cutting, surely. I expect you will tell me that joinery also can be a noun, but if you use the word ‘wood’ instead (or planks, strips or boards) it avoids confusion between noun and verb for those who might read it the other way.

• Okay, I’m going to stop grammering – sorry, I know it’s not what you want at this point.

• “I was overreacting to an empty room. It would be an empty room devoid of masters, which only compounded our current problems” – I don’t understand this. ‘our’ problems. I don’t see how this compounds Mag's problems. And the tense of the first underline confuses me and the meaning here. Sor is already in the room, aren’t they?

• I was really dragged forward quickly when the action started in the guild house. Good description using the senses, the smell of the man’s breath was particularly effective in placing me right there. There was some style stuff that snagged me a bit, but nothing that made me want to stop and comment.

• “man in purple” – and with curly black hair, it’s Prince! – sorry, but that was one of my thoughts. Also, the whole scene is kind of Mr. Underhill in reverse, but then I think you have not read Lord of the Rings, so how would you know?

• “I heard you can use a male witch same as any powerful woman. Get yourself a good sword out of it.” – this confuses me. Is he joking about Mag being a smith or Sor having an appendage? Or Sor being submissive to Mag? Whatever way around, I find it most unclear.

• “They should all be castrated.” Mag seethed” – Not understanding the logic of the previous ‘joke’, this doesn’t chime for me, of course.

• “hard enough that it hit the wall and reverberated back to smack her shoulder” – this is defined as “(of a loud noise) be repeated several times as an echo” – maybe rebounded?

• “she wrapped me in the blue cloth” – what blue cloth?

• “I am Mother’s first to be born with the correct anatomy but Sam… Sam is Mother’s firstborn son.” – This is confusing to me. I cannot deduce what it means and it’s frustrating because it feels like deliberate misdirection. Does it mean Sam is older but does not have the ‘correct’ anatomy? What does ‘correct’ even mean in this context? There are other questions that I would ask but, frankly, I'm afraid to. It’s still a barrier between me and the character. Sor has now been taken and male and female

Good chapter, but left feeling lingering frustration. Some of the references in the guild house scene are confusing, as I think others have picked up – but that can all be tidied up. Other moans noted above, but there were some nice scenes and good tensions excitement in this submission, some good description too.

<R>

[kais]

8 hours ago, Robinski said:

I’m interested to know why you don’t say ‘woollen’ in this situation

Regional dialect? I don't know. It's for my eventual editor!

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

I presume you mean birth weight never entirely lost

Yes, this. And I wanted it to be somewhat vague, so looks like that works.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

would Sor think that Mag had brought them along as a bed-mate?

LOL! Because S is supremely self-concious about breasts and is making poor parallel assumptions. It plays into a larger theme that is starting to build in this chapter. Wait for it.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

And this bit of dialogue is pretty darn serving-person-and-butler, imho.

Argh. Okay. Will try to fix.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

This sounds more like description of a person’s social standing.

I think I may keep it. S is in fact making a slight against tradespeople here.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

I don’t understand this

It would appear I didn't either, because it's already gone in my current document. Must have cut it last round.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

Mr. Underhill in reverse, but then I think you have not read Lord of the Rings, so how would you know?

True. I don't get the reference at all.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

Whatever way around, I find it most unclear.

I'll try to clarify. Part of this is referencing material I added after the group read the early chapters. He's making rape jokes, basically.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

what blue cloth?

WRS - her cloak is bright blue

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

Does it mean Sam is older but does not have the ‘correct’ anatomy?

Yes, this exactly. The confusion is probably part WRS. This is a matriarchy and inheritance is passed down through daughters. So a firstborn son couldn't inherit and would be fostered out. S was kept because S had 'the right anatomy'. This is S's POV, so we have to step around words like 'Sam wasn't born female', because technically, neither was S. I don't think you should ever be afraid to ask questions! You know I'm happy to chat.  

Thank you for the feedback! Excellent, as always.

 

[Robinski]

2 hours ago, kais said:

Yes, this exactly... This is a matriarchy and inheritance is passed down through daughters...

I see. Good, at least I was headed in the right direction, I think! For the less experienced reader (in matters non-binary), there are some references where a smidge more certainty would benefit understanding greatly. Not flat out explanation, just a word or two, but that's your balance to call, obviously.