Landis963 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said: Division is what is mentioned when they say "can burn through stone" Dustbringers are proven to be able to burn and Division is the surge of DESTRUCTION I think that only enhances the point I was going for with that post, but all right, I will correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said: Division is what is mentioned when they say "can burn through stone" Dustbringers are proven to be able to burn and Division is the surge of DESTRUCTION It's cutting molecular bonds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 isn't there a better way to inform new members about double posting than downvotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Did Someone Say Kill Evil? Posted April 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 On 24/04/2017 at 6:59 AM, Spoolofwhool said: It's cutting molecular bonds. But in the Ars Arcarnum it says division is the surge of destruction WoR Ars Arcarnum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said: But in the Ars Arcarnum it says division is the surge of destruction WoR Ars Arcarnum We have Brandon's own words, which overrule the Ars Arcanum. He felt splitting the atom would be a bit overpowered, so it only goes down to the molecular level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 16 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said: But in the Ars Arcarnum it says division is the surge of destruction WoR Ars Arcarnum It's destruction on the molecular scale, which would still visibly be destruction. It's not the Surge of Annihilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 I find it unlikely that Helaran's blade was an Honorblade, if only because it wouldn't really work as well narratively if the blade that Kaladin originally rejected was an Honorblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Did Someone Say Kill Evil? Posted May 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Yitzi2 said: I find it unlikely that Helaran's blade was an Honorblade, if only because it wouldn't really work as well narratively if the blade that Kaladin originally rejected was an Honorblade. It makes just as much sense as if it was a shard blade He didn't like it because of the proverbial blood on it, not because of the screaming Also to The one who connects, I never said atom splitting, only the vague word destruction Edited May 4, 2017 by Did Someone Say Kill Evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueShifting Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 I wonder about this, but do like what you have found. However, consider this. The members of the Diagram talk about how Shallan has been trained as a Radiant and they wonder if this training was at Jassnah's hand or that of her brother. This implies that he was bonded to a spren. I think that Helaran isn't actually dead. Maybe he became a Stormwarden and then gave his blade and plate to another agent who was the one Kaladin killed. The man Kal murdered never had his face revealed and it was the blade that was used to identify him. I think Helaran will appear, maybe at the end of Oathbringer. Oh and this would also absolve Kaladin from murdering Shallan's favorite brother which continues to open the possibility of a relationship starting between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 2 hours ago, TheBlueShifting said: This implies that he was bonded to a spren. I think that Helaran isn't actually dead. Maybe he became a Stormwarden @TheBlueShifting, did you mean a stormwarden, who is not necessarily bonded to a spren, or stoneward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 On 5/4/2017 at 3:10 AM, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said: Also to The one who connects, I never said atom splitting, only the vague word destruction I'm aware that you didn't mention it. You were told it was cutting molecular bonds by Spool, and you said "but it says destruction" as if splitting molecular bonds weren't destructive enough, so I mentioned a WoB that dealt with something more destructive. The questioner asked Brandon about splitting the atom, so he put his foot down and said molecular. I brought up splitting the atom as part of the referenced WoB because it was the question he answered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitch Posted May 6, 2017 Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 On 4/18/2017 at 3:21 PM, Pagerunner said: My big hangup with this whole situation was, why would Brandon include that Helaran sought out the Skybreakers, if he wound up being part of a different secret society? This explanation answers that concern. Like others had said, maybe he sought the Skybreakers to infiltrate them. When his spren found out that he betrayed his oaths to the Skybreakers, it broke the spren resulting in the dead shardblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueShifting Posted May 6, 2017 Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 On 5/4/2017 at 5:40 AM, john203 said: @TheBlueShifting, did you mean a stormwarden, who is not necessarily bonded to a spren, or stoneward? Hahaha I'm sorry @john203 I was thinking SkyBreakers, and apparently just had a mental checkout. The Skybreakers are the only Knights who seem to still be active as an organization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffw35 Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 From March 22 2014: QUESTION I guess Helaran was not bonded to a spren then? BRANDON SANDERSON Why do you say that QUESTION I saw that his Blade had a gemstone at the bottom, so that was a clue. BRANDON SANDERSON That is a very good clue. Note that Brandon does not say that it was Herlaran. Also, honor blades do not have these gemstones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djarskublar Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/8/2017 at 1:51 PM, geoffw35 said: From March 22 2014: QUESTION I guess Helaran was not bonded to a spren then? BRANDON SANDERSON Why do you say that QUESTION I saw that his Blade had a gemstone at the bottom, so that was a clue. BRANDON SANDERSON That is a very good clue. Note that Brandon does not say that it was Herlaran. Also, honor blades do not have these gemstones. I thought that WoB was talking about when Helaran visited the manor and showed off his Blade to threaten his father. Now I need to look up that scene and see if it had a gem. That would put the debate on if he had a spren to rest completely, since it was the same Blade then as the one Amaram has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffw35 Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Djarskublar said: I thought that WoB was talking about when Helaran visited the manor and showed off his Blade to threaten his father. Now I need to look up that scene and see if it had a gem. That would put the debate on if he had a spren to rest completely, since it was the same Blade then as the one Amaram has. I think you may be right about which scene is referenced here. However, he could have bonded with a spren between that time and Kaladin's killing of the shardbearer. Edited May 10, 2017 by geoffw35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djarskublar Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 Just now, geoffw35 said: I think you may be right about which scene is referenced here. However, he could have bonded with a spren between that time and Kaladin's killing. Except Shallan recognized the Blade that Amaram had as Helaran's Blade from then. So unless someone else got the Blade from Helaran and then he bonded a spren (which I think is highly unlikely for a few reasons that have mostly been discussed), he had a dead Blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Djarskublar said: Except Shallan recognized the Blade that Amaram had as Helaran's Blade from then. So unless someone else got the Blade from Helaran and then he bonded a spren (which I think is highly unlikely for a few reasons that have mostly been discussed), he had a dead Blade. And the new Blade's owner needs to be another joung Veden like himself. Honestly I think there are too many "if" to make this thing works. Also the fact he never showed up to keep his father in check Edited May 10, 2017 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffw35 Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Djarskublar said: Except Shallan recognized the Blade that Amaram had as Helaran's Blade from then. So unless someone else got the Blade from Helaran and then he bonded a spren (which I think is highly unlikely for a few reasons that have mostly been discussed), he had a dead Blade. I mentioned in a post back a bit in this thread that I believed that another was carrying the blade and was killed by Kaladin. I have never thought it was anything other than a dead shardblade which another could certainly carry. There certainly are counter arguments--red hair, his father believes he was killed, etc. So I like the theory (I don't claim it as mine, but I agree it has merit), but it is not the most likely scenario. Edited May 10, 2017 by geoffw35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djarskublar Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 As Yata aptly put it, there are too many ifs to make that theory likely. Then again, most theories about Helaran have a lot of ifs. I personally think that my theory that he was hunting the Skybreakers down, probably as a member of the Ghostbloods, has the fewest ifs and explains pretty much everything that is inconsistent in other theories. Aside from the physical evidence that it was Helaran, there is another reason I don't see mentioned much for why Helaran probably didn't have a spren. Why would he give up the Shardblade, and where did he get it? I personally don't think it is terribly likely that actual Skybreakers would be willing to associate with people in their organization with dead Blades. I doubt the Skybreaker order keeps around any dead Blades unless they hold on to them just to keep them out of circulation. For those reasons, I think it its unlikely that he got the Blade from the Skybreakers, and I don't see him getting one from another source if he was trying to join them. Then, once you have the Blade, it should be harder to bond a spren, so I don't think he could have become a Skybreaker while he owned the Blade. Giving up Blades is an extremely rare event, usually only to pass one on to your heir. What Dalinar did was an extreme exception. I don't see Helaran giving up concrete power and influence from having a Blade for a mere chance at getting mystical powers that would grant him only a little more political influence (at the time). He is too sensible, and game theory would tell me to keep the Blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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