If you were a twinborn, what would you like to be?

[StrikerEZ]

1 hour ago, hoidhunter said:

Well...a couple of my top picks have already been mentioned, but I've always thought that it would be cool to see what A-pewter F-iron would be like. While you usually have a net loss it strength when tapping weight to become lighter, you would have drastically increased strength from burning pewter, making you much lighter and much stronger at the same time.  On the other side...one of the big limitations we see in iron feruchemists is how tapping a lot of weight makes movement all but impossible, again, you could offset this limitation with pewter. On top of everything else you have all of the other advantages of pewter like durability, balance, coordination, etc.

I'm picturing a 100 foot moon jump that ends in a concrete shattering cannonball to the street, knocking bad guys and bystanders off their feet.  Before the dust settles you're already moving with enhanced speed, augmented further by decreased weight, as you subdue a score of foes in an eyeblink.  The last villain tries to make a get away by running you down in a car, only to find you as unyielding as an iron statue. The resulting crash leaves the car and driver a wreck, but you barely bruised. Hearing police sirens coming near, and observing all baddies incapacitated, you spring into the air, rebounding between two buildings, until you crest the edge of a rooftop and sprint away.

Dude...this combo is freaking awesome. You'd probably have to deal with some injuries, but still, the pewter would let you take way more injuries than you'd normally take. This is absolutely amazing. 

Edited July 13, 2017 by StrikerEZ

[+hwiles]

As long as you survive it really wouldn't matter; just get a nicroburst friend and swallow a few ounces of pewter (several dozens times what we usually see pewterarms ingest), which enhances healing.  Fun fact, pewter is crazy cheap.

[StrikerEZ]

Just now, hwiles said:

As long as you survive it really wouldn't matter; just get a nicroburst friend and swallow a few ounces of pewter (several dozens times what we usually see pewterarms ingest), which enhances healing.  Fun fact, pewter is crazy cheap.

Oh yeah...that would make things a whole lot easier.

[+hwiles]

If a steel/iron twinborn is a crasher, I would describe this combo as a wrecking-ball.  Is there a name for the meteor that killed the dinosaurs?  Because this would be some biology eradicating nonsense.  Lookout Ender, there's a whole new xenocide, and his name is Pewter/Iron.

[Scriptorian]

The wrecking ball potential of Allomantic pewter and Feruchemical iron is cool, but I'm more interesting in what happens when you're storing mass and burning pewter. Recall the fun ways Vin could use pewter because she was so much lighter than most pewter arms. Now picture that instead of weighing 90 lbs, she weighed 10 lbs! Pewter is a flat add to strength, so even with the weakness Wax described when storing, this could get silly. You could reach truly epic levels of parkour. I image you could nearly match coinshots in terms of mobility. Of course, the ability to weigh to two tons on command would offset any of the drawbacks. 

Also, in the MAG is says that, with a wing suit, skimmers can flap their arms and actually gain altitude. Throw the pewter-boost and a cowl on top and we officially have Batman. 

Edit: oooh. Batsignal shining through the mists. 

Edited July 13, 2017 by Scriptorian

[hoidhunter]

Yeah...a wing suit with this combo would be pretty sweet.  That would come after a hilariously large gun and a good, sturdy helmet.

[Storming Radiant]

On 12.7.2017 at 7:04 AM, hwiles said:

Compounding steel might shorten your life unfortunately. If you move at 100x speed, you should age at 100x speed.

Maybe Feruchemy grants you some defense against this, like it does when taping weight.

[KevinTheHerdazian]

22 minutes ago, Storming Radiant said:

Maybe Feruchemy grants you some defense against this, like it does when taping weight.

I agree, it would be silly if that's how it worked. that's like saying usain bolt will die earlier because he goes like 3/5 faster (100% accurate) *sarcasm* than everyone else

[+hwiles]

27 minutes ago, Storming Radiant said:

Maybe Feruchemy grants you some defense against this, like it does when taping weight.

Maybe, but allomancy doesn't.  If someone stores half of their speed for 8 hours, they can effectively perform 4 man-hours of work during that time.  Then they can tap speed to go (approximately) 50% faster for 8 hours and effectively perform 12 man-hours of work in that 8 hours, for a total of 16 man-hours in 16 hours.

The tricky part is, while storing speed, all of your biological processes slow down.  A consequence of this is that it would inadvertently make you age slower.  To balance this, tapping speed should make you age faster, otherwise the reaction wouldn't be end-neutral.

Consider this: If someone taps steel and moves at 8x speed to allow them to perform 8 man-hours of work in 1 hour, they ought to be as tired and hungry as if they had just worked for 8 hours straight, because from their perspective, that's exactly what they did.  For them 8 hours have passed while for everyone else only 1 hour has passed.  This should result in 8 hours of aging.  If you take this to the extreme where you move at 1,000x speed, the relationship should remain the same.

[Calderis]

5 minutes ago, hwiles said:

Maybe, but allomancy doesn't.  If someone stores half of their speed for 8 hours, they can effectively perform 4 man-hours of work during that time.  Then they can tap speed to go (approximately) 50% faster for 8 hours and effectively perform 12 man-hours of work in that 8 hours, for a total of 16 man-hours in 16 hours.

The tricky part is, while storing speed, all of your biological processes slow down.  A consequence of this is that it would inadvertently make you age slower.  To balance this, tapping speed should make you age faster, otherwise the reaction wouldn't be end-neutral.

Consider this: If someone taps steel and moves at 8x speed to allow them to perform 8 man-hours of work in 1 hour, they ought to be as tired and hungry as if they had just worked for 8 hours straight, because from their perspective, that's exactly what they did.  For them 8 hours have passed while for everyone else only 1 hour has passed.  This should result in 8 hours of aging.  If you take this to the extreme where you move at 1,000x speed, the relationship should remain the same.

Feruchemy has inherent protections again harm from tapping (to an extent) that it doesn't while storing. 

If it didn't, steel in and of itself wouldn't be nearly as useful as it is, because moving faster than the eye can see, means moving faster than you mind can react to, and at those speeds, any impact is going to kill you. 

In the same way that a steelrunners mind is expanded to allow them to function at those speeds, I doubt they age faster. The energy that allows a compounder to maintain those speeds, isn't coming from their body after all. 

[Scriptorian]

17 minutes ago, hwiles said:

Maybe, but allomancy doesn't.  If someone stores half of their speed for 8 hours, they can effectively perform 4 man-hours of work during that time.  Then they can tap speed to go (approximately) 50% faster for 8 hours and effectively perform 12 man-hours of work in that 8 hours, for a total of 16 man-hours in 16 hours.

The tricky part is, while storing speed, all of your biological processes slow down.  A consequence of this is that it would inadvertently make you age slower.  To balance this, tapping speed should make you age faster, otherwise the reaction wouldn't be end-neutral.

Consider this: If someone taps steel and moves at 8x speed to allow them to perform 8 man-hours of work in 1 hour, they ought to be as tired and hungry as if they had just worked for 8 hours straight, because from their perspective, that's exactly what they did.  For them 8 hours have passed while for everyone else only 1 hour has passed.  This should result in 8 hours of aging.  If you take this to the extreme where you move at 1,000x speed, the relationship should remain the same.

 I have been ninja'd for the fourth time today (maybe I just need to type faster...I blame tiny phone). I think my point is still valid however:

This is an intuitive way to look at it, but we don't actually know if this is the way steel works. If so, then what's the point of zinc, which only speeds up your mind (do we actually know this for sure, or does it also increase your lateral thinking ability?)? Brass doesn't directly affect your bodily processes in this way (which would cause all kinds of problems). 

Trying to figure out exactly what steel does and doesn't speed up has given me many headaches. Not as many as iron, but still a pain. 

Edit: to simplify, I think steel only affects you on a macro scale (bodily processes are unaffected) whilest protecting you from increased friction and also increasing reaction time (without duplicating the effects of zinc).

Edited July 13, 2017 by Scriptorian

[+hwiles]

9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Feruchemy has inherent protections again harm from tapping (to an extent) that it doesn't while storing. 

If it didn't, steel in and of itself wouldn't be nearly as useful as it is, because moving faster than the eye can see, means moving faster than you mind can react to, and at those speeds, any impact is going to kill you. 

In the same way that a steelrunners mind is expanded to allow them to function at those speeds, I doubt they age faster. The energy that allows a compounder to maintain those speeds, isn't coming from their body after all. 

I'll concede that aging is something steelrunning could protect against.

However, if I perform 16 hours of hard labor in 5 minutes using steel running, I should be tired, sweaty, and hungry.  This would mean that my body has digested food, released energy, and divided a bunch of cells, which means I must have physically aged 16 hours.  Tapping steel doesn't make you stronger or give you additional chemical energy, it's actually very similar in operation to time bubbles (minus the bubble).

Edited July 13, 2017 by hwiles

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, hwiles said:

I'll concede that aging is something steelrunning could protect against.

However, if I perform 16 hours of hard labor in 5 minutes using steel running, I should be tired, sweaty, and hungry.  This would mean that my body has digested food, released energy, and divided a bunch of cells, which means I must have physically aged 16 hours.  Tapping steel doesn't make you stronger or give you additional chemical energy, it's actually very similar in operation to time bubbles (minus the bubble).

I agree. Your still physically doing the work

[Scriptorian]

1 minute ago, hwiles said:

This would mean that my body has digested food, released energy, and divided a bunch of cells.  Tapping steel doesn't make you stronger or give you additional chemical energy, it's actually very similar in operation to time bubbles (minus the bubble)

The point I'm trying to make (slowly, I must be storing a lot of speed) is that we don't know this is how it works. Tapping or storing brass almost certainly does not affect your biological processes in this way. They continue functioning as if you weren't mimicking a blast furnace or a freezer.  

I could be completely wrong, but ever since I looked too closely at storing and tapping mass, I've been careful to not make assumptions about feruchemy. 

Now, tapping Zinc does make you hungry...and the headache is back. 

[+hwiles]

9 minutes ago, Scriptorian said:

The point I'm trying to make (slowly, I must be storing a lot of speed) is that we don't know this is how it works. Tapping or storing brass almost certainly does not affect your biological processes in this way. They continue functioning as if you weren't mimicking a blast furnace or a freezer.  

I could be completely wrong, but ever since I looked too closely at storing and tapping mass, I've been careful to not make assumptions about feruchemy. 

Now, tapping Zinc does make you hungry...and the headache is back. 

True, my theory of how steel operates hasn't been specifically confirmed by Brandon that I'm aware of, but I think it makes a lot of sense from a conservation perspective.  Feruchemy gives protection from being directly damaged by using the power, but it doesn't protect you from arbitrary external forces.  If you tap too much weight and fall through the floor and get impaled, that's not a flaw in the magic system, that's user-error.  If you flare bendalloy to extend a week into a year, your extra grey hairs are your own fault.  Bear in mind, the aging thing would only be a problem for steel compounders, normal steel-runners wouldn't age any faster than a normal person overall.

[KevinTheHerdazian]

if your going that fast why would you need to go that fast for that long anyway. Maybe it does affect your age or maybe not, either way you wouldn't need to use it for extended periods of time. I would not use speed to do work faster, I would use it to end fights as quickly as possible. So I could go fast enough that I can compress 10 seconds into one second, and kick butt like that. Especially because most fights don't last over a minute, imagine if I could punch twice or three times as fast as a normal person. you wouldn't even need to compound your feruchemy that much. if facing another allomancer then compound 30 or 40 seconds into one second normal time. You could get to them and remove all metalminds before they could blink, and still have enough time to stab them in the head. Even if you did age, you'd only have aged 40 seonds more than normal. I know eventually this will all add up but I don't think it would be as extreme as you guys are thinking.

[+hwiles]

1 hour ago, KevinTheHerdazian said:

if your going that fast why would you need to go that fast for that long anyway. Maybe it does affect your age or maybe not, either way you wouldn't need to use it for extended periods of time. I would not use speed to do work faster, I would use it to end fights as quickly as possible. So I could go fast enough that I can compress 10 seconds into one second, and kick butt like that. Especially because most fights don't last over a minute, imagine if I could punch twice or three times as fast as a normal person. you wouldn't even need to compound your feruchemy that much. if facing another allomancer then compound 30 or 40 seconds into one second normal time. You could get to them and remove all metalminds before they could blink, and still have enough time to stab them in the head. Even if you did age, you'd only have aged 40 seonds more than normal. I know eventually this will all add up but I don't think it would be as extreme as you guys are thinking.

The point I was trying to make is that you couldn't compound and tap steel constantly, like health/strength/Fortune/ect, without serious consequences.  Moving twice as fast all the time would be pretty cool, but it would be inadvisable.  You don't need to be able to compound steel to be able to do the feats you describe, Bleeder couldn't compound and she pretty much did exactly what you described.  In the case where you aren't compounding steel, the end-neutral nature of feruchemy prevents you from suffering any ill effects on average.

[Toaster Retribution]

Being a Steelrunner and a Coinshot would be cool. 

[Nathrangking]

Chromium/Gold

[Daydam]

I'd pick double Steel. I don't really care that much about Compounding, but being a Coinshot and a Steelrunner would be both cool and useful in a battle.

[Rowroad]

On 7/13/2017 at 6:39 AM, hoidhunter said:

Well...a couple of my top picks have already been mentioned, but I've always thought that it would be cool to see what A-pewter F-iron would be like. While you usually have a net loss it strength when tapping weight to become lighter, you would have drastically increased strength from burning pewter, making you much lighter and much stronger at the same time.  On the other side...one of the big limitations we see in iron feruchemists is how tapping a lot of weight makes movement all but impossible, again, you could offset this limitation with pewter. On top of everything else you have all of the other advantages of pewter like durability, balance, coordination, etc.

I'm picturing a 100 foot moon jump that ends in a concrete shattering cannonball to the street, knocking bad guys and bystanders off their feet.  Before the dust settles you're already moving with enhanced speed, augmented further by decreased weight, as you subdue a score of foes in an eyeblink.  The last villain tries to make a get away by running you down in a car, only to find you as unyielding as an iron statue. The resulting crash leaves the car and driver a wreck, but you barely bruised. Hearing police sirens coming near, and observing all baddies incapacitated, you spring into the air, rebounding between two buildings, until you crest the edge of a rooftop and sprint away.

ROFL. Now that's one awesome combo. I dig it. If I would choose a compounding combo I'd probably choose double gold for the nearly limitless healing supply.

[GaaMac]

Probably a chromium compounder, tap the metal mind and walk through enemies making their metal supplies disappear.

[Nathrangking]

Zinc and pewter that way my strength and brain power would be comparable.

[BrendenShouse]

I know its been said many times here but I have to go with Gold/Gold.  Immortality is just to hard to pass up for me, also you would be in perfect health for forever.   

[Calderis]

20 minutes ago, BrendenShouse said:

I know its been said many times here but I have to go with Gold/Gold.  Immortality is just to hard to pass up for me, also you would be in perfect health for forever.   

Gold healing does not make you immortal. It heals you perfectly, but you still age. 

After a certain point, healing would fail in the face of age, similarly to Atium requiring greater and greater amounts to stay young.