If you were a twinborn, what would you like to be?

[Lord Bookwyrm]

What type of twinborn would you like to be? Personally, I would like to be a chromium compounder, as then I would be able to be really lucky (Jackpot!). earning £10m every time I do the lottery. Lol, that would be so funny... Although gold compounder would be pretty good too... To see the full list of feruchemical and allomantic abilities, see the metal magic quick reference chart I made down below, or go to coppermind.net to find it. Mostly, I'm talking about compounders, but just about anything could be possible. Actually, being a lerasium allomancer and a soulbearer ferring would make your allomancy really strong... But that's just my thoughts. What do you think?

Ars Arcanum Metal Magic Quick Reference Chart.docx

[Dellexe]

Gold/Gold or Steel/Steel, to be honest. 

With Gold/Gold, I can't get sick, can hold my breath as long as I have Gold-charge, and I can do stupid things without getting seriously hurt. 

Steel/Steel lets you pseudo fly with hops and Steelpushes AND you're also the Flash. 

[Lord Bookwyrm]

But with chromium, you can wipe someone else's reserves (which can be really useful at times, trust me) and you get LUCKY! zinc/zinc and pewter/pewter could actually be quite useful at times as well. For example, you get super buffed, or you think  twice as fast everyone else all the time. I mean, who wouldn't want that?

[Lord Bookwyrm]

Since Lerasium is the ultimate metal in allomancy, both of which are preservation. Atium is the ultimate metal for hemalurgy, both of which are from ruin. As follows, harmonium must be the ultimate metal for feruchemy, since both are from harmony. I haven't really decided what this means yet, possibly it means you can store any attribute in it. So, a lerasium/harmonium thing would be the best twinborn ability, since you can literally compound anything. However, compounding it wouldn't really work, since it explodes in contact with water. Perhaps swallowing a capsule of it coated in a non reactive coating of oil?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Valette Renaitre

[Bartimaeus]

Me I would be a pewter/gold compounder because I would have my physical attributes increased and I can store healing with little to no side effects.

[Julio]

Oh, @Bartimaeus, I really do like that idea. It's not as powerful as double Gold, but it doesn't have the side effects. Also, it wouldn't be compounding... but still, that is a lovely idea. 

[Lord Bookwyrm]

Yeah, I didn't specifically say it had to be a compounder, so that's still allowed

[Julio]

@Valette Renaitre, I was only pointing that out to him because he said "Pewter/Gold compounder." I know you didn't specify compounding... 

As such, I'd want to have Allomantic Pewter and Feruchemical Copper. Allomantic pewter is just so useful, without even doing anything particularly interesting with it. And Feruchemical Copper... I have so many ideas of how to use it, one being storing all of my memories of a book in it and re-reading a book as if it were my first time... Anyway, simply being able to store memories is fantastic. 

Honestly, I don't even care about the Pewter. I don't actually care for any of the Allomantic powers all that much, the Feruchemical ones seem much more interesting to me. Feruchemical Copper in particular is just SO cool. 

[Lord Bookwyrm]

Yeah. Beign able to reread a book without remembering what was in it... A dream come true. Also, whenever you forget what happened in a part of the book, instead of having to reread the whole book, you could just take the memory out of the coppermind. Bliss. And here's what you want to be able to use in allomancy: you want to be a lerasium misting, in other words  a full mistborn

[Lord Bookwyrm]

Although being able to use feruchemical atium would be nice as well, since it's like using a disguise and being able to stay young in the same metal. You can look like you're 60 to be able to do all kinds of stuff with a reduced price (since you're a senior citizen) or, if you want to go into this place, but it's cheaper if you're under twelve, you could make yourself twelve and then go in. Also, if you're a criminal, do it while you're old, then all the witnesses and photos taken will look like the old you, not the real you. So many uses of feruchemy, it's actually amazing.

[Did Someone Say Kill Evil?]

On 06/04/2017 at 9:03 PM, Valette Renaitre said:

What type of twinborn would you like to be? Personally, I would like to be a chromium compounder, as then I would be able to be really lucky (Jackpot!). earning £10m every time I do the lottery. Lol, that would be so funny... Although gold compounder would be pretty good too... To see the full list of feruchemical and allomantic abilities, see the metal magic quick reference chart I made down below, or go to coppermind.net to find it. Mostly, I'm talking about compounders, but just about anything could be possible. Actually, being a lerasium allomancer and a soulbearer ferring would make your allomancy really strong... But that's just my thoughts. What do you think?

Ars Arcanum Metal Magic Quick Reference Chart.docx

You are misguided, compound chromium is:

*Assassin trips into blade when attempting assassination

*shot a bullet into the sky, kills all your enemies 

* Don't like someone, lightning kills them

 

Do you know the term Dues Ex Machina,  that

 

[Did Someone Say Kill Evil?]

On 06/04/2017 at 9:09 PM, KalaDellexe said:

With Gold/Gold, I can't get sick, can hold my breath as long as I have Gold-charge, and I can do stupid things without getting seriously hurt. 

 

Actually there is a feruchemical difference between health and breath

[The One Who Connects]

2 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

Actually there is a feruchemical difference between health and breath

Miles would disagree. His Gold heals the brain cells as they die from lack of oxygen. (It's still probably bad for him, but he does it.)

[Steeldancer]

On 4/6/2017 at 5:09 AM, KalaDellexe said:

Gold/Gold or Steel/Steel, to be honest. 

With Gold/Gold, I can't get sick, can hold my breath as long as I have Gold-charge, and I can do stupid things without getting seriously hurt. 

Steel/Steel lets you pseudo fly with hops and Steelpushes AND you're also the Flash. 

Ah but you'll burn up.... therefore you need to be an edgedancer as well. STILL PUSHING THE STEELDANCER THING. Maybe if I make a big enough fuss it might get into brandons head...

[Omniforce]

Pewter allomancy and brass feruchemy. All of the usefulness of pewter, you'll never need to deal with the cursed warmth of the summer again (or I guess if you are weird the cold, don't know why anyone would hate the cold though), and most importantly, burn pewter to increase physical resistance, and tap immense amounts of heat to burn through your enemies like a ticked off star.

15 hours ago, The Flash said:

Ah but you'll burn up.... therefore you need to be an edgedancer as well. STILL PUSHING THE STEELDANCER THING. Maybe if I make a big enough fuss it might get into brandons head...

Just freaking yes!!! We need hypersonic Lift!!!

[Steeldancer]

8 hours ago, Omniforce said:

Pewter allomancy and brass feruchemy. All of the usefulness of pewter, you'll never need to deal with the cursed warmth of the summer again (or I guess if you are weird the cold, don't know why anyone would hate the cold though), and most importantly, burn pewter to increase physical resistance, and tap immense amounts of heat to burn through your enemies like a ticked off star.

Just freaking yes!!! We need hypersonic Lift!!!

Oh not lift. I love the idea of bendalloy compounding lift. Steeldancer would be an entirely new character. But if lift were able to compound bendalloy... the world would explode from her awesomeness

[The Sovereign]

Zinc/Zinc

Rioting and Compounding Mental Quickness seem pretty good to me.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Iron Eyes

[Riversong]

I would almost definitely want bendalloy (allomantic) and bronze (feruchemical). I don't have nearly enough time as it is, and I could do things faster. As for bronze, I need a way to finish reading Brandon's new books without passing out (especially any books in SA).

[+hwiles]

Well...If I wanted to be a super villain...I'd probably go with allomantic Bronze and feruchemic steel:

1. Spend a few days storing loads of physical speed and chilling out doing things that don't require much movement; maybe read a few books.
2. Wander around populated areas finding and stalking metalborn with your bronze; ideally ones you've never met or had any prior connection to (not Connection)
3. Follow them home and harvest them with a hemalurgic spike then set the building on fire and flee with super speed.  (WoB maintains that it's possible to detect feruchemy with bronze, but no one's done it on screen yet, so it may require being a savant or possessing multiple bronze spikes...)
4. Skip town and leave law enforcement baffled.
5. Find a new town/city, rinse, and repeat.

There's currently a theory that compounding Determination (electrum) might allow a person to overcome Harmony's ability to control people with more than 3 spikes, which would allow you to become a fullborn.  And if you really wanted...you could give yourself extra allomantic brass spikes so you could control other hemalurgic constructs, including kandra .  (or I guess just use duralumin, whatever) I won't delve into the details here, but even if that didn't work, you could still just switch the spikes out as needed.

It occurs to me that you could also just use double nicrosil spikes to circumvent the 3 spikes at a time limit:

1. Pop in your double nicrosil spikes and an allomantic gold spike.
2. Compound nicrosil and store your ability to use allomantic gold in a nicrosilmind.
3. Replace allomantic gold spike with a feruchemic gold spike.
4. Draw gold allomancy from your nicrosilmind, swallow some gold, and compound gold to fill up some large goldminds, then compound nicrosil to store your ability to use feruchemic gold in a nicrosilmind.
5. Repeat for each metal (including nicrosil) (Note, you might run into a problem compounding aluminum, but I don't think you should)
6. Be a fullborn.
7. Remove all spikes, then give yourself 3 allomantic bronze spikes.
8. Stalk the Cosmere using bronze allomancy to find new abilities to harvest and store.

Edited April 19, 2017 by hwiles

[The One Who Connects]

4 hours ago, hwiles said:

(WoB maintains that it's possible to detect feruchemy with bronze, but no one's done it on screen yet, so it may require being a savant or possessing multiple bronze spikes...)

There's currently a theory that compounding Determination (electrum) might allow a person to overcome Harmony's ability to control people with more than 3 spikes, which would allow you to become a fullborn.

Compound nicrosil and store your ability to use allomantic gold in a nicrosilmind.

(Note, you might run into a problem compounding aluminum, but I don't think you should)

I imagine that just like Allomancy, they have to be actively storing/tapping to be detected, and Feruchemy uses much less Investiture than Allomancy does. Vin could "hear" the Mist Spirit because of the sheer amount of power, so the sheer lack of power should make the bronze pulses very quiet by comparison.

I'll bring up Marsh and his resistance against Ruin as support for the Determination idea. His high mental fortitude is one of the reasons why Ruin gave him so many spikes to begin with, to give himself more control.

Can we actually "store ability to use a power in F-Nicrosil" outside of the MAG? If not, people will debate the canonocity of that statement (I don't care, I just can't find anything saying you can do that)

Brandon has said that there's "not much" you can do with compounding Aluminum, and I personally think you can't really do it at all. But until I check the actual wording of the WoB, it's in the air.

---

Anyways, I'd probably use A-Zinc and F-Tin. I'm fascinated with the potential "other senses" that could be stored and practical applications of said storage. If I end up in a tight spot, I can riot fear and/or complacency as necessary.

[Gizmosowner]

If I was going for pure combat skill I would prob go for double iron as a 500 pound punch would do quite a bit of damage. As you throw the punch start tapping a lot of that compounded weight and you could easily take down someone like miles by clean knocking his head off. Plus with allomantic iron I could also pull people towards me. With heavy armor plating I could pull in all non aluminum bullets

[Djarskublar]

After having considered this problem several times, iron twinborn or steel/iron is objectively the best. Steel/steel is tough to beat, but with the right mass manipulations, it can be done. Everything else is small time, even gold/gold. With the sheer unpredictability and versatility of manipulating conservation of momentum mid-flight, mixed with iron or steel allomantic manipulation, you are a serious force to be reckoned with. IMO, Feruchemical iron is the strongest metallic art. Allomantic iron only serves to make it stronger with compounding, and steel is better than iron for general purpose stuff.

I would probably prefer iron/iron because you can manipulate your mass to let you fly like a coinshot anyway, just make yourself super light and pull yourself past your airborne horseshoe, then return to normal and pull it back up past you, and step three: profit.

Other than that, gold/gold would be my second choice because then I can get up to interesting Hemalurgy shenanigans

[8bitBob]

For pure combat ability, it's pretty hard to beat Steel/Steel. Iron is fairly useful for flashy, destructive uses like we've seen Wax do, but it's pretty hard to beat the sheer killing power of Steel compounding. Gold/Gold is unique in that it becomes more powerful as personal weaponry does: it's pretty hard to fight somebody with a fully automatic assault rifle/suicide bombs that aren't actually suicidal if you're not rocking something similar.

That being said, I'd personally go for something a bit more theoretical: A-Pewter/F-Nicrosil. Full disclosure, this is working under the assumption that F-Nicrosil can be used to make you a more powerful Misting.

If you look at Pewter, it honestly has a pretty absurd list of disparate powers: speed, strength, toughness, endurance, balance and healing. Its only real downside is that you only get a little big of each. Brandon has not canonized these things, but he pictures it as twice as strong baseline, three times as strong flaring.

Quote

QUESTION

Question about feruchemy and allomancy… what does it take to match allomantic pewter?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He imagines that baseline pewter doubles strength, flaring triples. He wouldn’t imagine someone burning pewter and lifting a car. Hasn’t thought about speed and healing. He’s admitting he hasn’t canonized these things.

Let's just work under the assumption that every category is scaled similar to strength, so flaring adds two times your baseline stats. This means that if I could tap Nicrosil for Allomantic strength, I could theoretically become a 10x more powerful Thug, which translates to 20x my baseline stats being added. At that level of toughness and speed, it's going to be very hard to get a meaningful hit on me with conventional weaponry. Basically, this combination lets me become a pseudo-Ferring for multiple attributes, and a more powerful one at that. Then, even if I run out of stored Nicrosil, I'm still a Thug. This could theoretically have many uses outside of combat while also being strong in its own right.

The other minor downside to this is that Pewter burns so quickly, and stronger Allomancers burn metals even faster. I think this has been fairly overblown though. When Vin and Kelsier perform a Pewter Drag, five beads of Pewter let them flare for an entire hour. Even if this meant I needed to burn metals at ten times the rate (it probably wouldn't, since stronger Allomancers are also more efficient) then that's still pretty manageable.

[+hwiles]

@8bitBob IIRC, Ham proposes in either WoA or HoA that allomantic pewter is more of a additive bonus in strength than a multiplicative bonus.  This is used to explain why Vin can jump to incredible heights while burning pewter compared to other Thugs he's met.  IE: Because she gains a similar amount of strength as Ham when burning pewter, but is about half his weight, she can jump significantly higher than him.

There's no arguing with the fact that the modifiers haven't been canonized yet, but lacking any other onscreen statements to the contrary, I would propose that the best way to treat the strength modifier for the time being would be as: burning pewter for a misting in the FE most likely gives a more-or-less flat strength boost comparable to that of about 1 large grown man (2 when flaring), and somewhat less in the current era.

The 2x - 3x multiplier seems pretty reasonable for most of the things we see Thugs do on screen, but I'm not sure that would be enough to explain all of Vin's feats, considering her small stature.  Definitely like where your heads at though, that would be a pretty deadly combination.

[Lord Bookwyrm]

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 5:27 AM, 8bitBob said:

For pure combat ability, it's pretty hard to beat Steel/Steel. Iron is fairly useful for flashy, destructive uses like we've seen Wax do, but it's pretty hard to beat the sheer killing power of Steel compounding.

But, it would be cheaper and way more efficient to be iron/iron since pull metals burns way slower than push metals, so it would be cheaper to use iron/iron. You also get more investiture out of it, since you get the same amount of investiture per second, but it lasts longer, so you get a lot more investiture out of it. The same is true for every other metal. The way to find out which is which is that the element is a pull metal and the alloy is the puch metal