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In the Beginning – The Cosmere’s Origin


Confused

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Another in my ongoing series “A Theory of Cosmere Magic”

Classification of Magic Systems

Pre-Shattering Magic

Basic Realmic Theory

Brandon deflects questions about the cosmere’s origin and the nature of the “God Beyond.” He states the “God Beyond” and related subjects depend on one’s religious attitudes. But Brandon does provide some hints.

The most important comes from Sazed [HoA, Chapter 55 Epigraph (emphasis added)):

Quote

[Ruin and Preservation’s] minds were, of course, independent of the raw force of their powers. Actually, I am uncertain of how thoughts and personalities came to be attached to the powers in the first place—but I believe they were not there originally. For both powers could be detached from the minds that ruled them.

I read the word “originally” to refer to the period pre-Shattering, before the Shards ascended. These “powers” (the “Powers”) at that time lacked “thoughts and personalities.” To me, this comment means the ability to direct the Powers does not require “personhood.”  “Consciousness” means you’re “alive,” but it does not make you into a “person” with a self-identity largely formed by social interactions. The Powers had no social interactions.

We see the same distinction between splinters (self-aware bits of Cognitive and Spiritual Investiture) and spren (splinters that do have their own “thoughts and personalities”). Brandon describes the “spren-making” process: "because of human or other sapient creatures thinking about it or interacting with the power, the power…develops personality and comes alive.”

“Adonalsium” is the name the cosmere gives the anthropomorphized pre-Shattering Powers. Since Adonalsium was not a “person,” he couldn’t have been human or any other species that became a Shard – the Shard Vessels did have “thoughts and personalities.”

I believe Adonalsium was the self-directing Powers. Brandon says, “Somebody needs to hold the magic. If no one holds the magic, the magic will start to gain sentience. Interesting and bizarre things happen then.” The Powers developed sentience and “bizarrely” created the cosmere. Khriss is unsure whether that made Adonalsium a “force” or a “being,” though she thinks the latter. (M:SH, Kindle Loc. 938, Part 3-2.) “Adonalsium” is an anagram for “a mind, a soul.”

Brandon also says “Adonalsium shattered because he was killed.” I interpret this WoB to mean “shattering,” like “splintering,” happens when the mind that controls the Powers “dies.”

Posters read this WoB to mean Adonalsium was “alive” and “male.” Since Adonalsium was “conscious,” he was “alive.” Spren prove being “alive” does not require corporeal form. While Brandon uses the male pronoun to describe Adonalsium, both here and elsewhere, I’m not sure we can conclude “he” was male. Divine gender tends to be masculine in many cultures (an observation, not a sexist assertion). The male pronoun in this context may or may not be significant.

After the Powers acquired consciousness, I believe they – Adonalsium – Invested the cosmere’s three Realms in a single act – a “Big Bang.” Under Brandon’s “one substance” principle, Adonalsium converted part of himself into Creation. The Powers are the raw material of Creation (which I define as the sum of all Spiritwebs and their corresponding Cognitive and Physical Realm aspects). When the Powers Invest, they become the created matter, energy or Investiture.

As a creative force, the Powers WANT to be used, MUST be used. Magic users feel this compulsion – the Powers push a directing mind to action. This creative compulsion explains why mindless Powers become self-directing. It also explains why I believe the cosmere’s Creation occurred in a single moment: once Adonalsium became the Power’s directing mind, the Powers exploded with pent-up creative energy.

After Creation, the remaining Powers (the Powers that didn’t convert into Creation) were confined to the Spiritual Realm. Though they formed everything, they were un-Connected to Creation. That’s why there were no catalytic magic systems before the Shattering – there were no Connections through which a magic user could access the Powers (Adonalsium). In this sense, Adonalsium was a “heavenly” God, a “transcendent” God.

But Adonalsium was also an “immanent” God, present in Creation. “God is in everything” is another idea Brandon borrows from Spinoza. This idea appears in Brandon’s statement that Investiture is the “Condensed ‘essence’ of the godly powers.” Marasi says metals are the “concentrated essence” of Preservation. (BoM, Kindle p. 359.) This idea also underlies the cosmere’s version of the thermodynamic laws, the inter-convertibility of matter, energy and Investiture.

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Very well thought out. It is quite possible that we so entirely reading too much into that WoB. He might have just been trolling us in that he's saying that "he" died because "he" was killed. Which seems obvious. And not necessarily this huge reveal. It is quite possible that it might have been a force... but who knows for sure? 

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4 hours ago, Confused said:

.

Since Adonalsium was not a “person,” he couldn’t have been human or any other species that became a Shard – the Shard Vessels did have “thoughts and personalities.”

I believe Adonalsium was the self-directing Powers. Brandon says, “Somebody needs to hold the magic. If no one holds the magic, the magic will start to gain sentience. Interesting and bizarre things happen then.” The Powers developed sentience and “bizarrely” created the cosmere. Khriss is unsure whether that made Adonalsium a “force” or a “being,” though she thinks the latter. (M:SH, Kindle Loc. 938, Part 3-2.) “Adonalsium” is an anagram for “a mind, a soul.”

Brandon also says “Adonalsium shattered because he was killed.” I interpret this WoB to mean “shattering,” like “splintering,” happens when the mind that controls the Powers “dies.”

Wasn't aware we had proof that Adonalsium wasn't a person. Care to share it? I'd quite like to get some of the arguing on the forums out of the way for good.

It's a similar idea to one that I had, where Invesiture without a vessel long enough will become the vessel, in a sense. This is related to the "he was killed" WoB, as there had to be enough of something sentient/living to constitute being killed, rather than being broken/destroyed(terms we use with objects and things)

Fairly certain that the anagram idea went nowhere with an air of finality. Especially once we learned that the name Adonalsium was in fact inspired by Adonai (which is apparently Hebrew for "Our Lord" rather than "God")

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Was Yolan a place where many Gods died? 

I see Adonalsium as the last surviving God on Yolan who was then eventuakly killed. 

I see the fainlife (think thats the name) consumed the other Gods but Adonalsium was killed by another force and split into 16 which the shard vessels picked up

Edited by Thanatos
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@The One Who Connects, to be clear, I do conclude Adonalsium was a living being, since he had consciousness and the ability to act as his consciousness directed. My real point is that he wasn’t a “person” in the way the Shards are “people” because he lacked “thoughts and personalities.” I’ve not seen Forum discussions address how one can be a “person,” yet not have “thoughts and personalities.” I suppose it’s possible. Adonalsium’s absence of personality is why I believe the Shards’ Mandates arise from them, who did have personalities, as opposed to Adonalsium.

Splinters are “self-aware” – “sentient” – but they don’t “think.” They’re capable of directing the Powers (like Roshar’s sentient spren do inside fabrials), but they have no “thoughts or personalities.” This contrasts with sapient spren, as Brandon describes in the OP. In part this is a function of the amount of Investiture involved. More Investiture expands the mind. Adonalsium had near limitless power available to him and should have a limitless mind.

But Adonalsium still wasn’t a “person” (as I define it) because he had no interactions with other sapient entities. He had no peers and maintained no Connections to his creations. That’s why there were no pre-Shattering catalytic magic systems. A being develops personality – some combination of personas – based on such interactions.

If the cosmere considered him “God,” Adonalsium might have developed this "god" persona the way spren develop theirs, through personification of an idea. Perhaps this is what Hoid meant in Warbreaker when he tells Siri he comes from a place where gods died, as @Thanatos notes. There may have been many cosmere personifications of “God,” much like Bavadin has her own pantheon. Collectively, these were “gods” the Vessels caused to "die."

Did any of these "gods" have “personality” even so? Sazed says "no." That’s good enough for me.

Regarding the anagram, what do you mean “went nowhere”? I believe @runyan_ft was the first to point this anagram out, in a comment on an early version of my theory last April. I don’t believe it’s been debunked (although maybe I missed something). I saw Brandon’s statement about “Adonai.” Why can’t both statements be true? Brandon was inspired by the name “Adonai” but added letters to it to create an apt anagram.

Edited by Confused
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1 hour ago, Confused said:

@The One Who Connects,to be clear, I do conclude Adonalsium was a living being, since he had consciousness and the ability to act as his consciousness directed. My real point is that he wasn’t a “person” in the way the Shards are “people” because he lacked “thoughts and personalities.” I’ve not seen Forum discussions address how one can be a “person,” yet not have “thoughts and personalities.” [....] More Investiture expands the mind. Adonalsium had near limitless power available to him and should have a limitless mind.

But Adonalsium still wasn’t a “person” (as I define it) because he had no interactions with other sapient entities. He had no peers and maintained no Connections to his creations. That’s why there were no pre-Shattering catalytic magic systems. A being develops personality – some combination of personas – based on such interactions.

If the cosmere considered him “God,” Adonalsium might have developed this "god" persona the way spren develop theirs, through personification of an idea. Perhaps this is what Hoid meant in Warbreaker when he tells Siri he comes from a place where gods died, as @Thanatos notes. There may have been many cosmere personifications of “God,” much like Bavadin has her own pantheon. Collectively, these were “gods” the Vessels caused to "die."

Regarding the anagram, what do you mean “went nowhere”? I believe @runyan_ft was the first to point this anagram out, in a comment on an early version of my theory last April. I don’t believe it’s been debunked (although maybe I missed something). I saw Brandon’s statement about “Adonai.” Why can’t both statements be true? Brandon was inspired by the name “Adonai” but added letters to it to create an apt anagram.

So that's what you meant by "not a person." Fair enough I guess, but I'll argue that he had to have some small connection to what he created because he created it. That's a connection right there, and the Spiritual Realm seems like it could thrive on technicalities like that.

Im pretty sure that we have a statement that the "gods that died on Yolen" weren't in the same category as Adonalsium, but that might have been from discussions about Liar of Partinel...

It means exactly what "went nowhere" would mean. It was an idea, discussion happened, discussion ended and it didn't come up again (til now). I thought that one of the other threads about the anagram had something that killed the idea rather than it just ending normally.

Then the "inspired by Adonai" happened later and the anagram idea faded even more because we now had something to base the name off of. I'm sure it could've been both, but I feel like original inspirations hold more weight because they've been with it longest.

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Although not concluded if Adonalsium had a vessel or not Brandon did say he called Adonalsium a he for ease of reference. 

Regarding Yolan and the Gods. We have no timeline here. All is speculation.

In speculating, what if before the Cosmere was created Yolan was a rouge planet in that it was not in a gallaxy or solar system. 

And on this planet lived the Gods. Adonalsium being one of them. Then the fainlife (think thats what its called) was created or came from somewhere in the universe and killed said Gods but Adonalsium.

Who then created the Cosmere for some reason, maybe to slow the fainlife consuming Yolan. Then got killed by the unknown force (potentially the 16 and more). 

 

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On 4/4/2017 at 11:03 PM, Thanatos said:

Although not concluded if Adonalsium had a vessel or not Brandon did say he called Adonalsium a he for ease of reference. 

Regarding Yolan and the Gods. We have no timeline here. All is speculation.

In speculating, what if before the Cosmere was created Yolan was a rouge planet in that it was not in a gallaxy or solar system. 

And on this planet lived the Gods. Adonalsium being one of them. Then the fainlife (think thats what its called) was created or came from somewhere in the universe and killed said Gods but Adonalsium.

Who then created the Cosmere for some reason, maybe to slow the fainlife consuming Yolan. Then got killed by the unknown force (potentially the 16 and more). 

 

We know that Humans, Dragons, and one other sapient species that I can't recall the name of lived on Yolen.

As for the theory in general, I still fundamentally disagree with @Confused on many things, so that makes it hard to discuss things. I do feel the need to clarify something first, in case you weren't aware of it. Adonalsium is not and was not the God Beyond. Adonalsium existed within the 3 Realms, while the God Beyond is wherever minds go after they pass Beyond. The reason this is important is metatextual. Brandon wanted to let people see the God(s) of the cosmere to be open to interpretation. So there are extremely powerful, godlike beings in the cosmere -- the Shards, and before them Adonalsium, but none of them are actually God, capital G. As Hoid put it, Tanavast was a decent enough fellow, and bought him drinks once, but he was not God. The God Beyond is a writing construct to let Brandon play with deity while still leaving readers open to believe what they will of the cosmere's true afterlife.

On 4/3/2017 at 2:30 PM, Confused said:

The Powers developed sentience and “bizarrely” created the cosmere.

I see this as closer to a post hoc fallacy than anything. And by definition, any creation story like that can't be bizarre. If it is the only thing in creation, it is normal, and anything after that is compared to it for whether it is bizarre. This means that any creation of Adonalsium couldn't have been 'bizarre.' Therefor, if the creation of the cosmere wasn't bizarre, then your point falls through.

One thing I would point you to is that we "should be glad Kelsier was around" after Preservation died, because the Shard would have splintered if nobody grabbed and directed the power. This, along with the WoB you mention saying he was killed, lead me to conclude that Adonalsium had a Vessel, and when the 16+ group of people used whatever weapon they used to kill him, the power almost immediately fragmented because there was just so much so concentrated power without anything controlling it, and those became the Shards. The original Vessels grabbed the Shards, and that prevented those from fragmenting further.

Basically, I conclude that a Shard cannot remain intact long enough without a Vessel to develop its own sentience, and that Adonalsium, being 16x larger, would only Shatter faster. Hence, Adonalsium had a Vessel. Of what species, that may never be answered, but someone was holding the power. Also, if Adonalsium was just a chunk of power, the Intents of Shards would probably manifest in a different manner. First, why would it have Intents like that in the first place? Second, if it was just a chunk of power, there should still be some of the memories of Mr A imprinted on the Shard that the current Vessel could access. Since there are no memories attached, just a general understanding of the Shard's history and a detailed understanding of its abilities, I feel it is safe to say that the Shard itself has few memories.

In the end, I think my interpretations of WoB are more accurate and make fewer shaky assumptions than your interpretations, and you are free to disagree.

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QUESTION

Was Adonalsium the one who created the cosmere universe as a whole?

BRANDON SANDERSON

That is widely assumed to be the case.

Interesting response from Brandon there. 

Also who created the planets outside of the Cosmere in the AU map?

Gods plural indeed

Edited by Thanatos
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