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6 minutes ago, Straw said:
 
 
 

Boo! Here I am Aman! I'm bored so I'll look at what you posted.

...

12. :ph34r:

While I appreciate the quick response, you still didn't answer the initial question I asked :P Might have got lost in all that text, though... I'll quote it alone so you don't have to sift through it again. 

24 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:
 
 
 

Can you give me at least your opinions on a quarter of the players who have posted so far? Has anyone said anything that makes you lean one direction or the other in terms of their alignment?

Please and thanks :D 

Edited by Amanuensis
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32 minutes ago, Paranoid King said:

Fair enough. I'll try and build up some votes on someone, see how they react. Joe. Stick. I notice that Elims tend to be active in thread, but not too active. I haven't played for a while, but you seem to fit that pattern.

This is how my activity level goes, eliminator or not. :-P oh and you've accidentally typed my name in green

29 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

 

 Stick, when you mentioned plans that aren't as beneficial for the village as they seem, in the past what have you seen that fulfills these requirements? You seem to imply that you see none now, but without referencing something, I could see an elim using that as an excuse for them attempting to "sow chaos."

I should clarify what I meant, I'm not saying that all plans aren't as beneficial as they seem, what I meant was that players that seem generally helpful are the ones I tend to keep my eye on the most. So if someone comes up with a good plan, I can't help but feel a speck of suspicion. Also, you in MR18 (was it MR18? I forget). You were the most trusted player yet you turned out to be an elim. Makes me paranoid. 

 

 

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A PM contact of mine found a problem in the coin-flip plan: the elims could use Chalklings to figure out who was odd and who was even, and then kill them when they're vulnerable. Although it's a minor hole, I thought up a solution:

1. Each player flips a coin this cycle, like I proposed before, and gets "odd" or "even"

2. Each "odd" player, on an odd cycle, flips two coins. If either of the coins are heads, the odd player Wards like normal. But if both coins are tails, the odd player takes a surprise action that night and then Wards the next night, continuing the game as an even player.

3. Each "even" player, on an even cycle, flips two coins. If either of the coins are heads, the even player Wards like normal. If both tails, they take a non-Warding action that night and continue from then on as an odd player.

4. This means that, out of 18 players, 9 should be off duty, 7 should be actually Warding, and 2 were assigned to Ward but are changing assignments.

Pros: elim scans lessen in value, more non-Warding actions per player

Cons: expected wards per night drop, and these numbers don't reflect non-Rithmatists, elims, or inactives.

 

I'm typing this in physics class and I've gotta run. Be on later to make myself clearer.

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Ok.

Silverblade5 voted on me. That was cruel but necessary.

Aman made a big post and said village related things. I'm gonna keep an eye on him.

Elenion has an interesting plan. Leaning village for his read.

Stick is reading neutral cause stuff.

Randuir is making comments! That's good!

Straw has been short and boring. Basically the opposite of him in RL.

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11 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:
 

I should clarify what I meant, I'm not saying that all plans aren't as beneficial as they seem, what I meant was that players that seem generally helpful are the ones I tend to keep my eye on the most. So if someone comes up with a good plan, I can't help but feel a speck of suspicion. Also, you in MR18 (was it MR18? I forget). You were the most trusted player yet you turned out to be an elim. Makes me paranoid. 

Fair enough.

19 minutes ago, Elenion said:
 

A PM contact of mine found a problem in the coin-flip plan: the elims could use Chalklings to figure out who was odd and who was even, and then kill them when they're vulnerable. Although it's a minor hole, I thought up a solution:

1. Each player flips a coin this cycle, like I proposed before, and gets "odd" or "even"

2. Each "odd" player, on an odd cycle, flips two coins. If either of the coins are heads, the odd player Wards like normal. But if both coins are tails, the odd player takes a surprise action that night and then Wards the next night, continuing the game as an even player.

3. Each "even" player, on an even cycle, flips two coins. If either of the coins are heads, the even player Wards like normal. If both tails, they take a non-Warding action that night and continue from then on as an odd player.

4. This means that, out of 18 players, 9 should be off duty, 7 should be actually Warding, and 2 were assigned to Ward but are changing assignments.

Pros: elim scans lessen in value, more non-Warding actions per player

Cons: expected wards per night drop, and these numbers don't reflect non-Rithmatists, elims, or inactives.

 

I'm typing this in physics class and I've gotta run. Be on later to make myself clearer.

In my big post I was considering suggesting that we reflip our coins every two cycles for similar reasoning, but I realized that put us in too much danger of us not having enough Wards, especially as the player numbers get lower. This seems like a better compromise for that, although I do worry that relying on pure chance so much will come to bite us in the end. That being said, I've already flipped my coin and sent in my relevant order.

16 minutes ago, Straw said:
 

Ok.

Silverblade5 voted on me. That was cruel but necessary.

Aman made a big post and said village related things. I'm gonna keep an eye on him.

Elenion has an interesting plan. Leaning village for his read.

Stick is reading neutral cause stuff.

Randuir is making comments! That's good!

Straw has been short and boring. Basically the opposite of him in RL.

That last one is totally cheating, but still, it's more than you posted before, so I'll take this as a small victory on my part :P. @Silverblade5, do you still want to vote for Straw now that he's said more?

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This system of off-on Warding is alright, I like Len's revised plan. However, I think Non-specialists should Ward more often than not, and specialists should focus on their specialty when not warding. 

Gunther has just finished his Box, but it will take a while for him to realize what has happened and react. I'll post RP then.

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I approve of Elenion's adjusted plan. It should also fix the issue that losses on one shift can cause, as the smaller group would have less people shifting assignment than the larger group. This means that we don't need another system to keep track of that. I would like to suggest that someone posts a link to the coin-flipper at the start of every cycle with a reminder of how the plan works though, as it's starting to get just a tad bit complicated.

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Here goes some RPing. Ehem....

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Conner's hand shook as he started the Jordan defense. the chalklings had stared to beak through, and he  wasn't very happy about that. Sure, it had been years scence his last duel but he was still annoyed at his own inexperence. he finished the last of it and moved on to chalklings.

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like the coin flip idea!


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Gunther lifted... his head... from the ground... to see... what was... going on. The other Rithmatists had completed their various defenses and were fending off the waves of chalklings. Gunther then looked... down. There were half a dozen chalklings were gnawing on his rather thick Box of Forbiddance. Gunther took... his chalk... and... began to... scribble thick layers... of chalk... all over Horatio. "Whatareyoudoing,youaremessingupmyfur!" If one looked closely, the blobs of chalk looked like crude face-blobs (if you have an imagination). Gunther then... lifted... Horatio towards the... edge... of the box... and tossed him out. 

"WHATINTHENAMEOFTHEMASTERAREYOUDOING!STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPAHHHHHHHHH!!!"

Horatio fell on a chalking, the Rithmatic face-blob-chalklings on his fur engulfing the squashed chalkling. Horatio stared down at himself in disbelief. 

"OHYEAHLET'SDOTHISBOOOOYYYYSSS!" Horatio flung himself into the mass of attacking chalklings, the layer of face-blobs repelling the damage while Horatio flailed his arms and whacked chalklings. Gunther watched... and... blinked... and ga-....asped... then... blinked. Horatio eventually lost interest in inflicting punishment on the chalkling swarms and wandered back to Gunther's Box of Forbiddance.

"Areyagonnaletmein?"

Gunther slowly... shook his... head no. The Box prevented entry. Horatio frowned and wandered off to do some more mischief.

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3 hours ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:
 
 
 
 

This system of off-on Warding is alright, I like Len's revised plan. However, I think Non-specialists should Ward more often than not, and specialists should focus on their specialty when not warding.

To clarify, there are no Non-Specialists, unless you're specifically referring to the Acid-Specialists, which technically are still a Specialist, just their power bonus is passive rather than active. Also, the whole point of the plan Len presented is that players are Warding every other turn in order to prevent conversions. To be honest, it's a bit unnecessary in the early game, due there being a significantly lower number of elims compared to innos, but if we don't designate players to Ward every other turn now then we put ourselves in danger of an early conversion. Regardless, there's some Specializations I'd rather not get used early game, such as Assassin and Blackmailer. Assassin because obviously I'm against uninformed vigilante kills (*cough* Aonar *cough), Blackmailer because more often than not the player will be limiting a villagers ability to communicate and vote, and a role like Blackmailer seems like it'd be great for the Forgotten, so if someone ends up being Maked as using Silencing, we might be catching an elim in the act. Of course me stating this now reduces the chances of that happening, however, it also limits them from using it if they know it could implicate them.

2 hours ago, Ornstein said:
 
 
 
 

Here goes some RPing. Ehem....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conner's hand shook as he started the Jordan defense. the chalklings had stared to beak through, and he  wasn't very happy about that. Sure, it had been years scence his last duel but he was still annoyed at his own inexperence. he finished the last of it and moved on to chalklings.

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like the coin flip idea!


Can you say more, Ornstein, than you liking the coin flip idea? I'd rather not vote on you because you are a very new player and I still don't understand the kill made on you in LG32, but for the village to really get anywhere, everyone needs to participate a little bit. Do you see the last question I asked Straw? Can you do us a favor and answer it for me as well?

Speaking of voting. Straw. Silverblade5. @Silverblade5 I saw you viewing the thread after I pinged you the first time, but according to your profile you got offline before the second time. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's because you got busy with school or went to sleep (I'm not sure which, honestly, but I think you're Mountain or Central Time. Maybe Pacific, any of which means it'd be the former versus the latter). But as DA pointed out earlier this turn, you're vote on Straw could be due to being evil and thus eager to lynch a villager. It's not necessarily unusual for you to make a vote early on in a game, IIRC, but I'm a bit concerned with the specific reason you gave (that he wasn't trying to be helpful). While you did suggest that players alternate between Warding and Forbidding before making that post, I feel like you're just barely skating above your own criteria. Therefore, by your logic, you should also vote on yourself (really I'm only pointing this out because I want you to say more).

On the idea itself, it isn't immediately bad, as it does make some tactical sense on the surface, but the problems I have with it are 1: it severely limits villager's options for what they can do and 2: it allows the eliminator's to capitalize on the use of Vigors, as both of those lines are the only ones that can be countered by that power, which is basically only efficient for the Forgotten (there's only one scenario where I can thing Vigor would be useful to use as a villager). While I think it's more likely you just didn't consider the idea very thoroughly, I have to wonder a little if you're an elim trying to lead the village astray.

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4 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

<snip> Now, a vote. Straw, Joe and Seonid have all been essentially been poke voted for inactivity, which is a peeve of mine.<snip> Joe's response to PK was satisfactory enough, <snip>

Also, @TheMightyLopen, why aren't you using @mentions to alert people? I noticed you didn't do it for Sart, as well. I know it shouldn't be necessary, but the only players following this thread are Stick, Joe, yourself and me, so Seonid wouldn't receive a notification either on the shard or his email from a simple post.

Similarly, I'd like to see more from <snip> @A Joe in the Bush<snip> Can you give me at least your opinions on a quarter of the players who have posted so far? Has anyone said anything that makes you lean one direction or the other in terms of their alignment?

<snip>  Finally, Joe, I know you said you're busy, but I've got to ask. Why are you so worried about a poke vote? 

EDIT: Yup, very terse...

I auto-follow all threads i post in. just wanted to throw that out there. I've been ignoring most notifications for a while now, so me following the thread isn't actually indicitive of me replying quickly.

Rather than respond about a quarter of the players, I'll just do that thing i did a bit ago (I forget which game.) where i quote every post and reply to each one. give me an hour and a half to do that.

i'm not worried about poke votes. they just irk me because of how useless they are. they're a waste of time. 

and yes, very terse. =P

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4 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Just in case, I'll @Sart and ask. Almighty GM, is it possible for there to be multiple Non-Rithmatists in this game? What about Acid-Specialists?

I'm really curious about this as well...I think it's really important to the game strategy.

 

So, I have been waiting to post for a little while so I could analyze what is happening and try to get a feel for how this game works, also I had to sleep and my sis came to visit today. Sorry for the delay. Okay wow! This is a lot to take in! but here goes... @OrlokTsubodai thanks so much for the welcome! It's hard for me to answer your question because I'm still a little confused by everything, but I do agree with your proposal that everyone should post their viewpoints asap because we need more info to analyze...I think your right about time being an issue. @_Stick_ I agree that at least one of the people tossing out ideas is likely to be an elim, but I'm not sure we have enough to go on yet...I think your right to make us think of that fact though and I don't think an elim would have brought that to our attention.  I want to say that I agree with the coin flip idea and kudos to all of you who formulated plans so quickly! Y'all are really good at this! I feel like this post isn't very helpful but I will keep trying to analyze and if I figure out anything to help I will post with haste ;)  Sorry Straw, I'm voting on you because, although you have been pretty active, your posts haven't really seemed to provide much help and I can't help but feel suspicious of you.

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21 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Speaking of voting. Straw. Silverblade5. @Silverblade5 I saw you viewing the thread after I pinged you the first time, but according to your profile you got offline before the second time. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's because you got busy with school or went to sleep (I'm not sure which, honestly, but I think you're Mountain or Central Time. Maybe Pacific, any of which means it'd be the former versus the latter). But as DA pointed out earlier this turn, you're vote on Straw could be due to being evil and thus eager to lynch a villager. It's not necessarily unusual for you to make a vote early on in a game, IIRC, but I'm a bit concerned with the specific reason you gave (that he wasn't trying to be helpful). While you did suggest that players alternate between Warding and Forbidding before making that post, I feel like you're just barely skating above your own criteria. Therefore, by your logic, you should also vote on yourself (really I'm only pointing this out because I want you to say more).

well my post was poorly timed :mellow: I just accused Straw of exactly that...I do feel like a hypocrite btw because I didn't provide much help in my post but I just feel like Straw isn't saying enough to prove that he's really thinking through the issues as a villager would.

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38 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:
 
 
 

I'm really curious about this as well...I think it's really important to the game strategy.

 

So, I have been waiting to post for a little while so I could analyze what is happening and try to get a feel for how this game works, also I had to sleep and my sis came to visit today. Sorry for the delay. Okay wow! This is a lot to take in! but here goes... @OrlokTsubodai thanks so much for the welcome! It's hard for me to answer your question because I'm still a little confused by everything, but I do agree with your proposal that everyone should post their viewpoints asap because we need more info to analyze...I think your right about time being an issue. @_Stick_ I agree that at least one of the people tossing out ideas is likely to be an elim, but I'm not sure we have enough to go on yet...I think your right to make us think of that fact though and I don't think an elim would have brought that to our attention.  I want to say that I agree with the coin flip idea and kudos to all of you who formulated plans so quickly! Y'all are really good at this! I feel like this post isn't very helpful but I will keep trying to analyze and if I figure out anything to help I will post with haste ;)  Sorry Straw, I'm voting on you because, although you have been pretty active, your posts haven't really seemed to provide much help and I can't help but feel suspicious of you.

27 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:
 
 
 
 

well my post was poorly timed :mellow: I just accused Straw of exactly that...I do feel like a hypocrite btw because I didn't provide much help in my post but I just feel like Straw isn't saying enough to prove that he's really thinking through the issues as a villager would.

Didn't say this in the sign up thread, but welcome, Brightness! I saw you're one of Lopen's siblings. I think that makes you the third or fourth he's gotten to play one of these games (I remember Steph and Biggo, and feel like there's another I'm missing...)

What are you confused about, exactly? If you ask I'm sure myself or someone else can help you out. As for Stick saying that... it really depends. An eliminator might say that if it's all villagers making plans, or if one of their teammates is doing it, the first either to make others question the plan-makers motives, the latter to curry them some favor later if they outlive said teammate (by saying something like "I told you so"). Whether or not Stick herself would think of something like that is hard to say, though based on her bringing up MR18, I'm leaning that it's a result of legitimate paranoia.

As for your vote on Straw... as you said in blue text, there's extenuating circumstances for you just posting now, whereas with Straw, low-activity is normal for him, which is why I tried to nudge him into the spotlight a bit. While his responses weren't the most informative thing ever, they were, at least, more than I'm used to with him, so I'm willing to give him some leeway with hopes that he'll keep it up. My original point is, try not to beat yourself up about hypocrisy. I reckon that your post is more helpful to me than you think. That being said, be careful with double posting. In a scenario like that, where you have more to add but no one else has responded, just edit your old post with a disclaimer (if you look back in some of my previous posts, you'll see me skipping a line and starting a paragraph with "EDIT:"

22 minutes ago, Straw said:
 

I'm voting for Silverblade5.

I'm assuming it's because he voted on you and you've accumulated another vote since I retracted mine, but it'd be helpful if you explained why you're voting for SB. Reading between the lines is all well and good, but for players that like to analyze tone and intent, we're likely to make less errors in judgement if we don't have to play guessing games.


C1 VotesThus far

(2) StrawSilverBlade5Amanuensis, BrightnessRadiant

(0) A Joe in the BushParanoid King,

(1) SeonidTheMightyLopen

(2) _Stick_OrlokTsubodaiParanoid King,

(2) Silverblade5AmanuensisStraw,


@Sart, I can't find in the rules what happens if a lynch vote is tied. Does no one die, is a RNG used to determine who dies, or do all players die?

@Elenion, @_Stick_, @Darkness Ascendant, @Seonid, @Jondesu, @Hemalurgic_Headshot, @OrlokTsubodai, @A Joe in the Bush, @Ecthelion III, @Frozen Mint, @Paranoid King, @Ornstein, @randuir: we're nearing the 24 hour mark and most of you haven't participated in the lynch discussion at all. Why not? Do you have any thoughts on the players who have voted or been voted on so far? What about those who have posted while not getting involved? Are you not voting because you'd rather there not be a lynch?

Edited by Amanuensis
Added line breaks... because they're pretty
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Alright, time for some rule clarifications. In no particular order...

Quote

Are Acid-Specialists Rithmatists?

Yes. They can make any Rithmatic line, but they have no Specialties. If the town's defense fails, their action will be cancelled, and they will instead prevent the conversion.

Quote

Can there be multiple Non-Rithmatists and Acid-Specialists?

Yes to both. If there are multiple Acid-Specialists alive when the town's defense fails, both players' actions will be cancelled. In other words, the town only has one free pass for defense.

Quote

Can a Forgotten be a Non-Rithmatist or Acid-Specialist?

When the game started, none of the Forgotten were Non-Rithmatists or Acid-Specialists. However, those roles can still be converted if the camp's defense fails.

Quote

Can the Line of Making (Chalklings) show if a player makes the Forgotten kill?

No, it cannot. It only shows people making Rithmatic Lines. Thus, it does not register the Forgotten kill, Acid-Specialists saving the town, or Non-Rithmatists teaching people. However, the powered-up Lines of Vigor can show any Action a player takes.

Quote

What happens if the lynch is tied?

No one dies.

Quote

Is there an inactivity filter for this game?

This is something I should have put in the rules. There is one for this game. If anyone fails to send in an action, it will be defaulted to a Line of Warding. (You're welcome town) However, if someone fails to send in an action twice in a role, they will be killed by the Chalklings. (You're welcome, Forgotten) Please contact me in your role PM if you don't want to send in an action, or if you'll be unable to send in an action on a given cycle. I'll try to be lenient on this, but this game doesn't work if people don't send in their actions. Thank you.

Quote

Where can I make questions at?

You can make them in the thread, or you can make them in your PM if you want to remain anonymous. All answers will be revealed to the thread, so that everyone has the same understanding of the rules.

That should be everything. Let me know if you have any more. I try to get on twice every cycle, and answer questions then.

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Aman, I did think about using a mention for Seonid when I voted on him, but I thought he'd see it without the mention. I didn't think it was necessary to mention Orlok either since he was looking at the thread right then. I'll keep it in mind though(the need for mentions annoys me, but there is a need sometimes >>).

Oh, look, the player I voted on hasn't responded to my vote, so there's no need for me to comment on the lynch. Nice! ...I'm kidding of course. :P Stick seems like she's a villager to me. I've played with Stick when she's been an eliminator, so I feel like I can read to her some extent. Straw, I'm undecided on. He has posted more than usual for Day 1, thanks to Aman's proddings, but I haven't seen enough to say either way at this point. Silverblade, eh, I don't see his vote as too unusual or suspicious. I don't remember how he plays as an eliminator compared to when he's a villager, but it seems close to how he always plays(but do speak up more SB!). Out of the 3, I'd vote on Straw or Silverblade. Probably Straw, because I'm kind of paranoid of you Aman and I could see you voting on Straw like that and then getting him to speak up like he has a lot easier if you guys are teammates. I also have a bad feeling about Joe, but that's entirely gut, so I should ignore it. I thought Brightness sorta sounded like she's a villager. Len is only making plans and not voting or commenting on the votes. Not sure if that's suspicious for him or not.

That's about all I can think of for now.

And you got 'em all Aman. Steph is my little sister(she said to say hi to you, so "hi" :P), and Biggo and Brightness are older than me.

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Lemme just quote every single post in the thread and respond to each one shall i? Even though I'm at work and have a bunch of homework to be doing? Even though i need to mop and sweep about 350 square feet of floor? Even though I have guests coming who need rooms prepared? Eh, whatever, SE before RL!

Spoilering for length

 
On 4/17/2017 at 5:28 PM, Straw said:

So starts the chaos! 

Classical Straw, completely alignment non-indicative. he likes to post something like this every* game it seems. All it does is give us a baseline for his activity times. He's going to be on right after rollover every cycle. Is this info important? Potentially. 

*Was not fact checked, based entirely on my own highly faulty memory.

23 hours ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

Gunther the Slow turned his head... slowly... almost there... just about... to get there... ah. There were chalklings pouring through the camp's defenses. How nice. 

"Hurryuphere'syourchalk!" Horatio thrust a thick stick of chalk into Gunther's sloth claws. Gunther leaned forward... down... over... towards... the... ground. He stretched his arm... out... towards the stone... with his chalk... to draw... a line... He applied pressure... on the... chalk... to make a... white mark on... the stone... a Line... of Forbiddance... to stall... the oncoming... wave... of chalklings. The line was complete. A meter long thick line of chalk lined the ground before Gunther. He leaned forward to make another Line... to box... himself... in. Horatio bounced anxiously on his shoulder.

"AhforMaster'ssakegetamoveonIdon'twanttodie!" Gunther finished the second Line and moved forward... chalk in hand... to make... another one. The other Rithmatists had already put up an extemporaneous defense at the front lines, but Gunther was oblivious. He was still... drawing... his Box... of Forbiddance.

Possibly hints at what actions Hemalurgic Headshot is going to take? Probably just RP, since HH likes to RP and generally makes at least 1 RP post per cycle* in every game.

*Was not fact checked, based entirely on my own highly faulty memory.

22 hours ago, Elenion said:

"Get your shields up, then blow them to oblivion!" Jones' voice boomed over the din of battle. He reached into his belt and pulled out a stick of chalk, spinning in place as he drew a Circle of Warding around himself. His meaty hands crushed the chalk halfway through, but he produced another stick from his belt and finished the circle. It wasn't the prettiest Circle of Warding; in fact, it looked like the Rithmatist who had drawn it was half-drunk, but "The Hammer" didn't plan on letting his foes get near enough for that to be a problem. Grinning, and now brandishing a stick of chalk in each fist, he began to make Lines of Vigor as fast as he could, making them tightly-bunched for maximum potency.


 

I think one of our biggest problems this game is going to be balancing our number of Lines of Warding needed to defend against the chalklings with our other actions. The most efficient way to solve that would be to make assignments in-thread, but that way the elims would know who couldn't be drawing Lines of Forbiddance on any given night. What if we each flipped a coin? If you get heads, you make Warding on odd cycles; tails, even cycles. This makes for an average of 9 assigned Wardings a night, which should be enough even factoring in inactive players and elims trying to make the defense fail. Nobody discloses which cycles they are Warding to anybody else, so the elims can't specifically target one group over the other.

Joel would like to get Hammered with Jones after the battle. no other comment on the RP.

I support the coinflip plan, and have proceeded to flip a coin. The problem i see with this is everyone being eager, excitable players who have a jack-of-all-trade roll for the first time, and deciding that their coin came up tails, so that they can take an action of their choice tonight. but i can't think of a way to prove/disprove/solve that problem, so I'll leave it be, but would like Elenion to see if he can solve that problem. It's a good plan.

22 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Okay, first thing we need to figure out is Lines of Warding to prevent any conversions. This means we need to estimate how many Forgotten we think there are right now. I think I'd guess 3, considering there is the possibility for conversion, so their numbers should start a little lower than normal. Which means I'd personally prefer we have at least 5 Lines of Warding up, in case the Forgotten are able to break any with Lines of Vigor or there's 4 of them. Probably would be best to put up more than that honestly, just to be safe, but with the rule that you can't do the same action 2 Cycles in a row, we need to make sure we've got a good system for putting up Lines of Warding each Cycle. Obviously we can't just plan everything out in the open, since that would let the Forgotten know exactly who to target and when they can target someone.

The more I think about this, the more complex it seems. >> Maybe we could do something like, pair players together? Which would give us 9 pairs, and then they could switch off doing Lines of Warding. Without saying who went first or whatever. Obviously, not everyone is a Rithmatist, so not every pair would be able to do a Line of Warding each Cycle, but we might be able to work it out. Thoughts?

And to get the voting started, Elenion! I saw you around a little while ago, but you didn't post, so now I'm voting on you. ...dangit. Nevermind then! Flipping a coin won't give us an exact way to switch off, but I'm not sure a pairing system would either.

Paranoid King, I won't vote on you, since you just came back(welcome back, btw!), but it would be great if you could post. I'll find somewhere else to put my vote later.

I do like the pairing system, and would have supported it if Elenion hadn't brought up the coin plan. of course, there's the problem of the Elims getting partnered together, or of them all deciding to ward the same night, so that they can weaken the defenses all at once on a certain night. how would you have dealt with those problems Lopen?

22 hours ago, Elenion said:

It wouldn't be exact, but with 18 players we could end up with a 10-8 switchoff or even an 11-7 switchoff and it would be fine. Chances of it ending up more unbalanced than that are pretty slim. Pairing would make the numbers more exact, but at the cost that the elims would know when their partner would be vulnerable.

Elenion brings up another point about Lopen's plan, but it's not actually the best of points. we can easily solve that by pairing high profile players with low profile players. the high profile players likely won't feel the need to assassinate their partners, and if they get assassinated by their partner, then it narrows down which of the high profile players are probably elims, due simply to them surviving. (Hear that Elims? I'm saying if you kill me, it will make it harder for you to hide if you're a high profile player. You should leave us alive so that you can hide among us pls. =P)

22 hours ago, Silverblade5 said:

Idea: we primarily exercise two lines. If you aren't able to draw a line of warding, protect those who currently are.

Why protect them? Why not alternate between protecting yourself and protecting the Wardens? If a Warden's protector dies, it's just as bad as a Warden dying.

22 hours ago, Paranoid King said:

I like it. I was going to suggest that we have the first 5 people in the player list defend the camp, then the next 5 the next cycle, but this gives a lot more secrecy. And you don't have to worry about too many of those people being forgotten or non-rithmatists, just because of how many we have.

Edit: Just noticed the line of silencing while rereading the rules. It looks interesting, but PMs between two players are allowed, so it doesn't really do anything unless you get the upgrade. Probably best not to rely on it too much

Edit 2: Scratch that, they can't make PMs either. First thing I'd do is make a code, though.

He's not saying much here, (WB btw) but he does bring up the line of silencing. I know that some players have already mentioned their PM buddies, and other players, like myself, are infamous for pm'ing people and organizing behind the scenes. So I recommend everyone set up a code to convey important information. 

21 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Maybe so. It might force the Forgotten to be accountable for their actions though, if they're worried that their partner might use a Line of Making to see if they're actually using the Line of Warding like they're supposed to.

While protection is helpful, information is just as important, so Lines of Making are just as important to be using. I'd say that the 3 Rithmatic abilities that are the most important right now are Warding, Forbiddance, and Making.

Also, while strategy for Rithmatics is important, please don't forget to vote! (I know I haven't yet, but I will at some point :P)

If i recall correctly, that was an excellent plan last rithamist game. the Forgoten did most of the camp defending because they were worried about being Line of Make'd So I'd agree with Lopen's assessment of the three important lines.

21 hours ago, Silverblade5 said:

Straw has posted, yet hasn't even tried to be helpful. He shall have my vote until someone better catches my eye.

True, and par for course for both Straw and Silver.

21 hours ago, Paranoid King said:

Yo, my man Joe, (I'm no good at making rhyme,)

I'm sure you have some stuff that is filling up your time,

but we've got a lot of chalklings that are swarming in the camp,

and they're not the sort of kind you can wipe out with a stamp.

I'd suggest that you come over to see what's going on,

(bring your chalk, 'cause this problem ain't the sort that's solved with brawn,)

Once you're here, I am sure that I will remove my vote

Unless you're a forgotten, in which case I will lynch you.

I've already replied to this, but I'm going to bring it up again. Poke votes like this are useless. just mention me please. It's more useful, and allows you to actually use a vote.

21 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Before I weigh in on what's been said so far, I think I need to read the rules two or three more times to wrap my head around them. I've been playing Overwatch with a few friends all evening so I've only been looking at the threads while queuing for matches, and now I'm about to go to bed since I have a meeting early in the morning. Sooo, yeah. Vote on me if you think it's necessary, but either way I'll get more involved tomorrow. Goodnight, everyone.

And oh god. I just realized the colors available in the pallet are different. Test. Test. Test. Test.

EDIT: Okay. So if you use the color=red, blue and green tags, they still look normal. Still an inconvenience though.

EDIT2: Changed the OOG text to the proper blue to make sure it's accurate.

Literally nothing here? Just a post? Okay, just Aman being Aman.

17 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Right. Apologies for the rush. I'm on a train to work, and don't have long.

There's one major thing I'd like to note at this point. We've had a number of games recently with a great deal of time pressure for the village. In my mind, this game very definitely joins their ranks.

To begin, with a lynch and a kill, the eliminators are able to reduce village numbers by up to two each cycle. Whilst it's unlikely that every lynch will be of a villager, it's not improbable that the early lynches will be. On top of a lynch and a kill, the eliminators have access to conversion, should we not make enough lines of warding, resulting in a potential swing of three to the eliminators from the village in a turn.

If, as has been mooted, we split into two groups and cycle our lines of warding, and assuming perfect activity, we begin with nine lines of warding. Assuming the three eliminators posited earlier in the thread (not unlikely, given they don't have access to an immediate conversion), the seven or eight village lines of warding face 3 chalklings, and potentially two lines of vigour, assuming the eliminators make a kill.

This is a clear victory for the village, and it's possible that the next turn might have 5 or six lines of warding (7/8-village lynched-eliminator kill), against three chalklings (and two lines of vigour of the eliminators delay their use). Again, a clear village victory.

The issue starts to become clear on turn three. Although unlikely, it's not entirely impossible that all four deaths at this point have been village, and that they're all in the first group. At this stage, the eliminators have access to three chalklings, and two lines of vigour - enough to break even with a potential village defence, even assuming the odd cycles have 8 villagers rather than 7 (assuming 15 villagers divided evenly between the odd and even cycles).

Day four is of yet greater threat. Unless we have lynched an eliminator by this point, we face potentially three eliminators, along with two lines of vigour (if not used on turn three), against six deaths. It's not at all improbable that three  or four of these deaths are of villagers on even turn warding, which means the village will be pushed to hold against 5 distinct attacks to the defence.

With a conversion on day three or four, the villages' problems are compounded. Deaths continue to accumulate at 2 a cycle, and the eliminators would have 4 chalklings, and up to three lines of vigour. At this stage, the game is essentially over - we cannot muster seven lines of warding every other cycle, ensuring the balance tips further and further in the eliminators favour. 

If we do not lynch an eliminator by the end of day two, and at the latest by the end of day three, I think it very possible that the game will be unwinnable by day four. 

As such, discussion and high activity from every player is of paramount importance. We need material to analyse, and need to force players to commit to views. 

It follows from the above that we cannot afford the contribution crusade this game. We can't afford for our lynches to be wasted, and need to use them as a tool to generate discussion. We do not have time to spend a cycle allowing the eliminators to hide in the shadows, not committing to any views.

@BrightnessRadiant, welcome to SE! What are your thoughts on this?

Hmm, i hadn't though about the Contribution crusade in quite that manner, but i think you're right. we can't focus on the inactives. We have to move fast. Though, as others have mentioned, you're ignoring sentries and acid specialists. I'd posit that Orlok is a villager, but if he is, i think we'll need to really focus on inactives, as he could be saying this to protect chronically inactive teamamtes.

16 hours ago, randuir said:

I think Elenion's suggestion for dividing the defense makes sense. I had actually drawn up an alternative defense-plan, but it really only works for more than 2 cycles if there are only 3 elims (or less), and I won't assume that now that there are 18 players. If anyone disagrees with the coin-flip idea, now would be the time to present alternatives, as we'll need everyone to commit to that one for it to work (if only half the players do this, and the rest just go with 'what feels right', or another plan, we'll likely just end up with a pretty half-baked defense).

I'll have RP up in a bit. For those who want it, here's a link to all illustrations in The Rithmatist, in case people need a refresher on the defenses.

Edit: RP:

Neil stood alone, a massive horde of white bearing down on him. He knew there was something he needed to do, but he couldn’t set himself to do it. His entire attention was consumed by the mass of white chalklings bearing down on him. He could feel the raw hunger, washing like a wave-front ahead of the horde. People had told him he imagined things, that the wild chacklings didn’t feel anything at all, but Neil knew better. He’d seen the horde’s hunger first-hand, and now it would consume him. There was nothing he could do.

His chalk slipped from his hand, and the horde washed over him. Thunder struck. The earth shook.

Neil woke up.

He let out a relieved sigh. It had just been another nightmare.

“Everyone, to your battle positions. We can’t let them get through!” Similar shouts started going throughout the entire camp and the other Rithmatists started rushing out of the cabin in a hurry.

Neil rushed outside with them, but froze a couple of steps from the door. There where wild chalklings everywhere. They came rushing in from the direction of the circle like an unstoppable tide. The monsters spread out as they approached the camp, with groups splitting up to go after different Rithmatists. Someone nearby yelled something about shields, but it barely got through to Neil. His attention was consumed by a triplet of chalklings that for some reason stood out from the horde. They came crawling over one of the camps buildings, headed straight for him.

“So, this is how I die.” Neil had grabbed a piece of chalk, but didn’t start drawing. It would be pointless. Nothing he or anyone else could do would stop the horde. They’d consume everyone in the camp, then spread out to…

Three lines of Vigor snaked in from his left, neatly decapitating the chalklings that had been rushing towards him. The death of the creatures broke the hold on Neil, and he slapped his chalk down to the ground, drawing a neat circle. He quickly glanced to his left, where another Rithmatist was shooting off lines of vigor from the confines of... Neil really hoped that was supposed to be an ellipse.

The man had the right idea though. With the camp under attack, and most of the Rithmatists scattered around, Lines of Vigor would be the way to go. Neil quickly started adding the ellipses of a Shoaff defence, as unlike the other Rithmatist, Neil wasn’t willing to trust a bare circle of warding for protection. He added a couple of simple defensive cracklings for additional protection as he went, his hand steadying as he quickly completed the familiar defence. He’d just started drawing the final ellipse when a wild chalkling came scuttling down the cabin he’d just been staying in. He pulled back his hand in fright, skewing the bottom half of the elipse and connecting it in the wrong place to the circles as he did so. Luckily, one of his defensive chalklings, an armored knight, attacked the creature in the side before it could make use of the newly created weakness in his defence.

  Reveal hidden contents

rithmatist_diagram_ch-16_webres.jpg

Neil headed back to the side of his defence facing the breach and put his chalk down to start putting out lines of Vigor. He finally looked up from his own defences to pick out a target. Neil froze again. The amount of chalklings scuttling around seemed to have increased rather than decreased. They seemed to be everywhere, crawling, running, biting. Hungry.

“Why did I think I could fight this?”

So, if anyone could come by and knock Neil over the head, so he can try and focus on shooting chalklings, I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

I don't have anything to actually say to this. You don't really say much, other than asking for people who disagree with the coin plan to step forward, which hasn't been said before, and did need to be asked. but, eh. shrug

13 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Further thoughts. Again, somewhat rushed, as I'm on a lunch break, but potentially worth discussing.

I think we need to be conscious this game that there is a high potential for a form of dictatorship. 

There are strategies this game that we could employ to severely handicap the eliminators.

If players were paired up randomly, and alternated drawing lines of warding or making against their partner, we could halve the actions available to the eliminators, through forcing them to draw lines of warding every other turn.

Such a strategy, however, relies upon removing player autonomy over their actions.

Personally, I'm strongly against dictatorships in SE games, and raise this only for the discussion it might bring. I hope I've been overly pessimistic with my analysis of the game's timeframe in my earlier post, but even if not believe that we'll all get greater enjoyment out of the game if we get to play as we want to for a few cycles, rather than without freedom for longer.

@Darkness Ascendant, what thoughts do you have on the mechanics or the posts in thread so far?

I agree in entirety. let's not have a dictator/mayor. there's absolutely no way to prove innocence in this game, so it's too risky.

12 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Don't know don't care :P 

Alright, so I won't be much active but I'll give this the shot it deserves.

If you guys want to know my role or whatever PM me or something, cos honestly I won't be invested in this game as much as I would like to be >>

So far it seems as if  @Silverblade5 is actually looking for someone to put his vote on... lynches aren't entirely necessary early in games, and well if I were an elim...I'd be trying to be as efficient as possible and eliminate as many villagers as I can.

I'll need to reread the mechanics too, been a while since I read them...

--------------------------------

K'Sarben looked at the horde of white, vision out of focus. And he felt something within him, some primal emotion told him to simply go and join the horde Gah He shook his head violently and returned to reality, his eye twitched as he readied his buckets of acid.

He looked at the person next to him...Neil he thought his name was, Gods....he's trembling so badly, poor little lamb left Mary home did he...thought he could fight the wild ones and stare at them dead in the eye, and draw his lines with the strength he should have had...

Neil was like himself in a way...but K'Sarben knew that whereas his lines weren't as powerful as he would have liked them, he could at least draw with a steady and firm hand. He sighed and muttered to himself, "I should help him..."

They were gushing into the room, clawing and skittering, covering the ground in their sea of white. He saw Neil freeze, NO, That idiot will get us all killed!...should they breach his defense...bleh I should really help him.

So he threw a bit of chalk at @randuir's head.

Whoever get's DA's role from him should post it in the thread so that we all know, since he doesn't seem to mind telling everyone.* @Darkness Ascendant let's not be roleclaiming to anyone just yet. Heck, let's not be roleclaiming at all. Right now, it's too likely that the Elims are in PM's gathering information. every scrap of information tells them something, and there's no roles that need to be publicly known to be planned for.

*don't actually do this please. that was sarcasm.

12 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Orlok, while I agree that the form of dictatorship you're talking about is a danger with my plan of pairing players, I purposely did not suggest that every pair just use Lines of Making on their partner. This is a futile action in and of itself, considering the Forgotten could just do what any normal Rithmatist might do while we lynch villagers and they kill them.

Something else you're forgetting is that not everyone is a Rithmatist. It's likely that we've got Non-Rithmatists and I'm guessing we've got at least one Acid-Specialist to block the first conversion. This somewhat clears up the issue of dictatorship as well, given not every pair will be made up of 2 Rithmatists. So the Forgotten won't be quite as crippled as you suggest, though they still might play it safe. I'd guess we have somewhere around 13-15 Rithmatists, leaning more towards the higher side, considering multiple Non-Rithmatists makes it possible for a lot of kills early and multiple Acid-Specialists makes it really hard for the Forgotten to get a conversion.

Anyways, this also affects your numbers about how safe we are. If we only have 13 or so Rithmatists, the amount of Rithmatist deaths until we're able to be overrun on a given Cycle is lower than you're suggesting, although it would be a risk for all of the Forgotten to use Lines of Vigor considering some villagers will likely be using Lines of Making on suspicious/lurking/questionable players. I do like the sense of urgency you're suggesting we play with though.

All of that being said, I am okay with plan 'let's all flip coins.' I think it'll work just as well to get the Lines of Warding up, though it doesn't give the added benefit of giving players some accountability.

Seonid, you haven't posted yet, even though you were online. Do you have any thoughts about the plans put forward, or what they might say about the players who suggested them?

Lopen brings up good points. and then he poke votes seonid. (-_-) but yeah, he hits all the points i wanted to hit.

12 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Also, we must take into account that not everyone will be able to create lines of wardings or whatever, and that they are non-rithmatists.

Already been covered. I'm assuming Lopen ninja'd him. so good points DA.

12 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

I'm cool with the coin flip suggestion (unless something better comes up) if everyone else is up for it. 

We also have a Sentry to rely on 

Also, regarding the Special Roles (i.e. Non-Rithmatist and Acid-Specialist), is there only one of each? Judging by this bit from the rules:

seems to suggest there's only one non-rithmatist and, presumably, one acid specialist. Would be a shame to lose one of these peeps to the wild chalkings.

Oh, and out of all the people making helpful improvements to/coming up with plans, I expect at least one of them to be a Forgotten. Just sayin :ph34r:

I'm staring at this post, and have nothing to say about it yet. I'll stare at it for antoher minute, and if i haven't figured out anything to say, I'll just leave this sentence here.

12 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Oh just throwing some suspicion on Lopen, he's asking me to start some chaos :P 

in thread or in PM? @Darkness Ascendant

11 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

That doesn't read to me as a terribly helpful comment, Stick. Would you care to substantiate your view further?

Comments like this dissuade people from getting involved in planning and active discussion, which both limits the effectiveness of the village actions, and makes it more difficult to find eliminators. 

@TheMightyLopen, apologies, I'm at work, but will respond to your post as soon as I can.

I do see how what she said could be suspicious, but it probably is true.

11 hours ago, randuir said:

Emphasis mine. If I didn't misread the rules, acid-specialists are also rithmatists. They just don't get a specialization.

Taking that into account, I expect there to be 15-17 rithmatists+forgotten. Regarding coin-flipping, it might be a good idea if everyone informs 2 other persons what group (odd or even) they are in. That way we can track how many losses one group takes, and redistribute if necessary, without having it as public knowledge who is in what group. Doing it this way would mean the elims would know the group of at least some people unless we get really lucky, but I think the added security against breaches is worth it. If we've got multiple acid-specialists it won't be necessary, as we can reshuffle after the first breach, but reshuffling will almost guarantee a breach, so if there's only one, we need to keep track of defenses and make sure we pre-empt a breach.

RP:

The tide of chalklings kept coming closer and closer, and still Neil couldn't force himself to look away and focus on drawing his lines of Vigor. His hand had started shaking, losing the firmness it had had when he drew his defense. It didn't matter to him. He knew it was over, that soon these monsters would eat the skin from his body and. A sharp pain blossomed from the back of his head.

Neil reflexively looked behind him, to see where the attack had come from. Apparently one of the people still inside the cabin had thrown a piece of chalk at him. Before he could figure out who had throw it his attention was drawn back to the front of his defense.

He forced his gaze down before he could get distracted by the oncoming horde again. Looking at them hadn't yet done him any good. Instead, he looked at the tethers of the two defensive chalklings he'd positioned there, using them to judge where the oncoming chalklings where. Then he started drawing, firing line of vigor after line of vigor blindly into the rough direction of the enemy. As he drew, his hand steadied again, and his lines regained their familiar near-perfection. He made an effort to keep in mind where his fellow Rithmatists where, so that he wouldn't accidentally blast their circles of warding, but he didn't look up to make sure he was right. As long as he kept his eyes down, and focused on his drawing, instead of what he was drawing at, he would be fine. Yes, as long as he kept drawing, everything would be just fine.

I don't support anyone telling anyone what group they're in. If I was an Elim, I'd be trying to figure that out, and unless we assign people to tell certain people, it's likely that only a few trusted people will actually be told who's doing what, which will lead to a few players knowing a lot of the defense plan.

11 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

I said that you could, not that you should. It might make things interesting though. ;)

Sart, is there only one Non-Rithmatist and Acid-Specialist?

Whoops, forgot about that Randuir. Or did I? :ph34r:

dang it lopen. cause chaos later. plan now.

11 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Ah yes...wouldn't want to have a dull game with the villagers winning easily, we elims don't want that now do we ;) 

Yes we do. why wouldn't we want that? (Still remembers being an eliminator in the Clean Sweep game.)

11 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Yeah, from what I've noticed, elims try to suggest (or sometimes just strongly support) ideas that may seem helpful to the village but actually aren't. Of the ideas proposed in the game uptil now, I don't see it yet, but I think that we should keep out eyes open for them is all. 

And smart elims deliberately suggest plans that actually hurt them, because doing so makes them trusted. And villagers occasionally suggest plans that seem helpful, but aren't, because they didn't quite think them all the way through. So it's not a perfect way of determining alignment. of course, no way is, so carry on.

9 hours ago, Straw said:

I agree with the coin flip idea.

Cool, Same. Post more pls.

7 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Joel started awake, staring about desperately. "I was awake! Totally awake, uh, what?"


Anyway, don't poke vote me please. If you vote me, actually vote for me. I'm going to be a bit busy today catching up on homework (Not blue texting that because I'm going to be on and off the game despite needing to be doing homework) So I'm not going to be thinking up clever plans to catch the forgotten. That said, I like Len's Coin flip idea, and I like that Orlok brought up the dictator possibility. 

*Goes back to Sleep

He definitely wasn't awake. someone should behead him again, see if it takes this time.

6 hours ago, Paranoid King said:

Fair enough. I'll try and build up some votes on someone, see how they react. Joe. Stick. I notice that Elims tend to be active in thread, but not too active. I haven't played for a while, but you seem to fit that pattern.

That's a better way to vote, thank you PK.

6 hours ago, randuir said:

We've already discussed the line of warding somewhat, so lets start with the next line, the line of Forbiddance. It is my opinion that people who aren't currently up for drawing a line of warding should seriously consider drawing this one instead. It protects someone from a single attack, so by spreading this one around, we can get a decent chance of stopping attacks by the elims. As Orlok has pointed out, we are under a significant time-pressure, but this line can help alleviate that somewhat.

Next up is the line of vigor. This line breaks lines of warding (which are extremely important) and lines of forbiddance (which are somewhat important). I don't really see any good reason why non-specialist villagers should be using these. The specialists, however, can use these as a kind of soft-seek, however. If they role-block someone they suspect, and subsequently no kill occurs, then they know they probably have a good suspect. I would recommend not shooting these around at will, even if you are a specialist, as hitting a villager could compromise the camp's defenses.

The line of making can be used to check on other people's lines. this can be very useful, especially for specialists, as catching someone draw a line of Vigor should at the very least warrant some suspicion. If a specialist catches someone drawing a line of vigor who doesn't have the duelist specialization then that's doubly suspicious.

The line of revocation is another line that I believe the non-specialists should be using very little. It temporarily removes someone's specialization, which is almost always a bad thing if it hits a villager. The only exception is when you're pretty sure you've found an elim with a dangerous specialization, such as assassin. Regarding assassins, I recommend you practice good fire-discipline. Don't just kill someone every two turns because you can. Shooting suspicions is fine, of course, just don't role a dice to see who dies whenever you can draw this line.

I don't really have much to say about the line of silencing, apart from the recommendation, once again, to use it wisely, as it can end up hurting the village if you hit the wrong person.

good thoughts and suggestions. i see nothing wrong with them.

6 hours ago, Straw said:

Boo! Here I am Aman! I'm bored so I'll look at what you posted.

1. Yay! You agreed with me?

2. I'm pretty sure it's because he has RL stuff.

3. No comment.

4. Good idea!

5. However, we will have to often use lines of warding, thus decreasing the number of wildcard players per turn. Also, a player is far more likely to use a line of warding or a line related to their specialty.

6. Listen to Aman. Assassins can be deadly.

7. Good idea. I've already put in a order.

8. @mentions galore!

9. Yeah people, stop it with the poke votes. BTW @Silverblade5.

10. That's why I made this post!

11. No comment.

12. :ph34r:

too lazy to dig around and figure out what each of these are responding to.

6 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

This is how my activity level goes, eliminator or not. :-P oh and you've accidentally typed my name in green

I should clarify what I meant, I'm not saying that all plans aren't as beneficial as they seem, what I meant was that players that seem generally helpful are the ones I tend to keep my eye on the most. So if someone comes up with a good plan, I can't help but feel a speck of suspicion. Also, you in MR18 (was it MR18? I forget). You were the most trusted player yet you turned out to be an elim. Makes me paranoid. 

I've already responded to this in a previous reply, so just going to ignore it.

6 hours ago, Elenion said:

A PM contact of mine found a problem in the coin-flip plan: the elims could use Chalklings to figure out who was odd and who was even, and then kill them when they're vulnerable. Although it's a minor hole, I thought up a solution:

1. Each player flips a coin this cycle, like I proposed before, and gets "odd" or "even"

2. Each "odd" player, on an odd cycle, flips two coins. If either of the coins are heads, the odd player Wards like normal. But if both coins are tails, the odd player takes a surprise action that night and then Wards the next night, continuing the game as an even player.

3. Each "even" player, on an even cycle, flips two coins. If either of the coins are heads, the even player Wards like normal. If both tails, they take a non-Warding action that night and continue from then on as an odd player.

4. This means that, out of 18 players, 9 should be off duty, 7 should be actually Warding, and 2 were assigned to Ward but are changing assignments.

Pros: elim scans lessen in value, more non-Warding actions per player

Cons: expected wards per night drop, and these numbers don't reflect non-Rithmatists, elims, or inactives.

I'm typing this in physics class and I've gotta run. Be on later to make myself clearer.

it would encourage elims to not scan, but as you said, it also weakens the camp's defenses. Eh, I'm ambivalent towards it. I'll think more later.

6 hours ago, Straw said:

Ok.

Silverblade5 voted on me. That was cruel but necessary.

Aman made a big post and said village related things. I'm gonna keep an eye on him.

Elenion has an interesting plan. Leaning village for his read.

Stick is reading neutral cause stuff.

Randuir is making comments! That's good!

Straw has been short and boring. Basically the opposite of him in RL.

Good job Aman, you managed to get straw to post something more! Good job Straw, you managed to post more! but can you elaborate? Why was Silver's vote necessary? What about Randuir's comments are good? why is stick neutral?

5 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Fair enough.

In my big post I was considering suggesting that we reflip our coins every two cycles for similar reasoning, but I realized that put us in too much danger of us not having enough Wards, especially as the player numbers get lower. This seems like a better compromise for that, although I do worry that relying on pure chance so much will come to bite us in the end. That being said, I've already flipped my coin and sent in my relevant order.

That last one is totally cheating, but still, it's more than you posted before, so I'll take this as a small victory on my part :P. @Silverblade5, do you still want to vote for Straw now that he's said more?

when has relying on chance *ever* bitten us? =P

5 hours ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

This system of off-on Warding is alright, I like Len's revised plan. However, I think Non-specialists should Ward more often than not, and specialists should focus on their specialty when not warding. 

Gunther has just finished his Box, but it will take a while for him to realize what has happened and react. I'll post RP then.

(It's literally impossible to ward more often than not.) and everyone* has a special (Even if it's acid) so i disagree with focusing on your special.

*Not actually everyone.

5 hours ago, randuir said:

I approve of Elenion's adjusted plan. It should also fix the issue that losses on one shift can cause, as the smaller group would have less people shifting assignment than the larger group. This means that we don't need another system to keep track of that. I would like to suggest that someone posts a link to the coin-flipper at the start of every cycle with a reminder of how the plan works though, as it's starting to get just a tad bit complicated.

good suggestion. i vote Straw does, since he posted first.

4 hours ago, Ornstein said:

Here goes some RPing. Ehem....

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Conner's hand shook as he started the Jordan defense. the chalklings had stared to beak through, and he  wasn't very happy about that. Sure, it had been years scence his last duel but he was still annoyed at his own inexperence. he finished the last of it and moved on to chalklings.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

like the coin flip idea!


Thanks for checking in, any other thoughts?

1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

To clarify, there are no Non-Specialists, unless you're specifically referring to the Acid-Specialists, which technically are still a Specialist, just their power bonus is passive rather than active. Also, the whole point of the plan Len presented is that players are Warding every other turn in order to prevent conversions. To be honest, it's a bit unnecessary in the early game, due there being a significantly lower number of elims compared to innos, but if we don't designate players to Ward every other turn now then we put ourselves in danger of an early conversion. Regardless, there's some Specializations I'd rather not get used early game, such as Assassin and Blackmailer. Assassin because obviously I'm against uninformed vigilante kills (*cough* Aonar *cough), Blackmailer because more often than not the player will be limiting a villagers ability to communicate and vote, and a role like Blackmailer seems like it'd be great for the Forgotten, so if someone ends up being Maked as using Silencing, we might be catching an elim in the act. Of course me stating this now reduces the chances of that happening, however, it also limits them from using it if they know it could implicate them.

Can you say more, Ornstein, than you liking the coin flip idea? I'd rather not vote on you because you are a very new player and I still don't understand the kill made on you in LG32, but for the village to really get anywhere, everyone needs to participate a little bit. Do you see the last question I asked Straw? Can you do us a favor and answer it for me as well?

Speaking of voting. Straw. Silverblade5. @Silverblade5 I saw you viewing the thread after I pinged you the first time, but according to your profile you got offline before the second time. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's because you got busy with school or went to sleep (I'm not sure which, honestly, but I think you're Mountain or Central Time. Maybe Pacific, any of which means it'd be the former versus the latter). But as DA pointed out earlier this turn, you're vote on Straw could be due to being evil and thus eager to lynch a villager. It's not necessarily unusual for you to make a vote early on in a game, IIRC, but I'm a bit concerned with the specific reason you gave (that he wasn't trying to be helpful). While you did suggest that players alternate between Warding and Forbidding before making that post, I feel like you're just barely skating above your own criteria. Therefore, by your logic, you should also vote on yourself (really I'm only pointing this out because I want you to say more).

On the idea itself, it isn't immediately bad, as it does make some tactical sense on the surface, but the problems I have with it are 1: it severely limits villager's options for what they can do and 2: it allows the eliminator's to capitalize on the use of Vigors, as both of those lines are the only ones that can be countered by that power, which is basically only efficient for the Forgotten (there's only one scenario where I can thing Vigor would be useful to use as a villager). While I think it's more likely you just didn't consider the idea very thoroughly, I have to wonder a little if you're an elim trying to lead the village astray.

I think Silverblade has actually been acting fairly village so far. and he does tend to be pseudo inactive. i recommend PM'ing him if you want his thoughts. he's a lot more open in private than public.

1 hour ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

Oh. I think I misread the rules. I thought  there were vanilla players with no specialty. Well then disregard all of that.

k, will do.

1 hour ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

I auto-follow all threads i post in. just wanted to throw that out there. I've been ignoring most notifications for a while now, so me following the thread isn't actually indicitive of me replying quickly.

Rather than respond about a quarter of the players, I'll just do that thing i did a bit ago (I forget which game.) where i quote every post and reply to each one. give me an hour and a half to do that.

i'm not worried about poke votes. they just irk me because of how useless they are. they're a waste of time. 

and yes, very terse. =P

oh lok, i'm doing the thing now. just like i said.

1 hour ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

I'm really curious about this as well...I think it's really important to the game strategy.

So, I have been waiting to post for a little while so I could analyze what is happening and try to get a feel for how this game works, also I had to sleep and my sis came to visit today. Sorry for the delay. Okay wow! This is a lot to take in! but here goes... @OrlokTsubodai thanks so much for the welcome! It's hard for me to answer your question because I'm still a little confused by everything, but I do agree with your proposal that everyone should post their viewpoints asap because we need more info to analyze...I think your right about time being an issue. @_Stick_ I agree that at least one of the people tossing out ideas is likely to be an elim, but I'm not sure we have enough to go on yet...I think your right to make us think of that fact though and I don't think an elim would have brought that to our attention.  I want to say that I agree with the coin flip idea and kudos to all of you who formulated plans so quickly! Y'all are really good at this! I feel like this post isn't very helpful but I will keep trying to analyze and if I figure out anything to help I will post with haste ;)  Sorry Straw, I'm voting on you because, although you have been pretty active, your posts haven't really seemed to provide much help and I can't help but feel suspicious of you.

well my post was poorly timed :mellow: I just accused Straw of exactly that...I do feel like a hypocrite btw because I didn't provide much help in my post but I just feel like Straw isn't saying enough to prove that he's really thinking through the issues as a villager would.

Your post is very helpful Brightness. Thank you. and you do bring up good points about straw and stick.

1 hour ago, Straw said:

I'm voting for Silverblade5.

k, why?

1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

Didn't say this in the sign up thread, but welcome, Brightness! I saw you're one of Lopen's siblings. I think that makes you the third or fourth he's gotten to play one of these games (I remember Steph and Biggo, and feel like there's another I'm missing...)

What are you confused about, exactly? If you ask I'm sure myself or someone else can help you out. As for Stick saying that... it really depends. An eliminator might say that if it's all villagers making plans, or if one of their teammates is doing it, the first either to make others question the plan-makers motives, the latter to curry them some favor later if they outlive said teammate (by saying something like "I told you so"). Whether or not Stick herself would think of something like that is hard to say, though based on her bringing up MR18, I'm leaning that it's a result of legitimate paranoia.

As for your vote on Straw... as you said in blue text, there's extenuating circumstances for you just posting now, whereas with Straw, low-activity is normal for him, which is why I tried to nudge him into the spotlight a bit. While his responses weren't the most informative thing ever, they were, at least, more than I'm used to with him, so I'm willing to give him some leeway with hopes that he'll keep it up. My original point is, try not to beat yourself up about hypocrisy. I reckon that your post is more helpful to me than you think. That being said, be careful with double posting. In a scenario like that, where you have more to add but no one else has responded, just edit your old post with a disclaimer (if you look back in some of my previous posts, you'll see me skipping a line and starting a paragraph with "EDIT:"

I'm assuming it's because he voted on you and you've accumulated another vote since I retracted mine, but it'd be helpful if you explained why you're voting for SB. Reading between the lines is all well and good, but for players that like to analyze tone and intent, we're likely to make less errors in judgement if we don't have to play guessing games.


C1 VotesThus far

(2) StrawSilverBlade5Amanuensis, BrightnessRadiant

(0) A Joe in the BushParanoid King,

(1) SeonidTheMightyLopen

(2) _Stick_OrlokTsubodaiParanoid King,

(2) Silverblade5AmanuensisStraw,


@Sart, I can't find in the rules what happens if a lynch vote is tied. Does no one die, is a RNG used to determine who dies, or do all players die?

@Elenion, @_Stick_, @Darkness Ascendant, @Seonid, @Jondesu, @Hemalurgic_Headshot, @OrlokTsubodai, @A Joe in the Bush, @Ecthelion III, @Frozen Mint, @Paranoid King, @Ornstein, @randuir: we're nearing the 24 hour mark and most of you haven't participated in the lynch discussion at all. Why not? Do you have any thoughts on the players who have voted or been voted on so far? What about those who have posted while not getting involved? Are you not voting because you'd rather there not be a lynch?

I have not participated at all, you're correct. and i don't actually intend to on day 1 unless i see something that really knocks my socks off with how suspicious it is. As for the options, i don't see why lopen is still voting on seonid, i wouldn't mind seeing straw or stick lynched, and would prefer that silver isn't. i don't think he's a forgotten.

1 hour ago, Straw said:

Well... I voted on SB because they voted on me for inactivity and then I posted again and they were online but they didn't retract their vote!

eh, not the best reason to vote for someone, but also not really a forgotten reason to vote for someone.

29 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Aman, I did think about using a mention for Seonid when I voted on him, but I thought he'd see it without the mention. I didn't think it was necessary to mention Orlok either since he was looking at the thread right then. I'll keep it in mind though(the need for mentions annoys me, but there is a need sometimes >>).

Oh, look, the player I voted on hasn't responded to my vote, so there's no need for me to comment on the lynch. Nice! ...I'm kidding of course. :P Stick seems like she's a villager to me. I've played with Stick when she's been an eliminator, so I feel like I can read to her some extent. Straw, I'm undecided on. He has posted more than usual for Day 1, thanks to Aman's proddings, but I haven't seen enough to say either way at this point. Silverblade, eh, I don't see his vote as too unusual or suspicious. I don't remember how he plays as an eliminator compared to when he's a villager, but it seems close to how he always plays(but do speak up more SB!). Out of the 3, I'd vote on Straw or Silverblade. Probably Straw, because I'm kind of paranoid of you Aman and I could see you voting on Straw like that and then getting him to speak up like he has a lot easier if you guys are teammates. I also have a bad feeling about Joe, but that's entirely gut, so I should ignore it. I thought Brightness sorta sounded like she's a villager. Len is only making plans and not voting or commenting on the votes. Not sure if that's suspicious for him or not.

That's about all I can think of for now.

And you got 'em all Aman. Steph is my little sister(she said to say hi to you, so "hi" :P), and Biggo and Brightness are older than me.

So why aren't you retracting your vote on Seonid?

 

Gah, I'm done for the day. see y'all in like 20 hours. send me a pm if you need me.

Edited by A Joe in the Bush
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1 hour ago, Sart said:
 
 
  1. Yes to both. If there are multiple Acid-Specialists alive when the town's defense fails, both players' actions will be cancelled. In other words, the town only has one free pass for defense.
  2. When the game started, none of the Forgotten were Non-Rithmatists or Acid-Specialists. However, those roles can still be converted if the camp's defense fails.
  3. This is something I should have put in the rules. There is one for this game. If anyone fails to send in an action, it will be defaulted to a Line of Warding. (You're welcome town) However, if someone fails to send in an action twice in a role, they will be killed by the Chalklings. (You're welcome, Forgotten) Please contact me in your role PM if you don't want to send in an action, or if you'll be unable to send in an action on a given cycle. I'll try to be lenient on this, but this game doesn't work if people don't send in their actions. Thank you.

I removed the questions I didn't feel the need to respond to and numbered the ones I left for convenience.

  1. Okay, so. Considering there's a possibility of there being multiple Non-Rithmatists, that means a Non-Rithmatist may be able to make up for the mistakes of another, although it also means that the Forsaken could potentially receive multiple powers from different sources. I honestly don't think the Non-Rithmatists will affect the balance of the game too much, but I firmly believe that caution is wise. As for the Acid-Specialists, that's a good way to keep the game from getting imbalanced from too many people having strong roles while also keeping the conversion mechanic relevant. Both of those things mostly help the Forgotten help, but I'd rather play a balanced game than one broken in favor of any specific team.
  2. That's an interesting clarification. Usually a GM wouldn't spell it out like that, as this means Artists are capable of finding guaranteed villagers (at least until a conversion occurs), as well as Duelists who stop a Non-Rithmatist from teaching someone a new Specialty. If you're a village Artist/Duelist in one of these scenarios, I recommend you establish contact with that player and try working with them thoroughly. That being said, if you're a Non-Rithmatist or an Acid-Specialist contacted by an Artist or a Duelist who knows your role, don't trust them absolutely, as there's a chance they're a Forgotten trying to play you.
    1. Furthermore, this means every Forgotten has a specialty of some kind. Assassin is extremely unlikely, Duelist and Guardian I hesitate to guess, although it's possible if another Forgotten is a Sentry, as a Forgotten with a power only helpful to the village could counterbalance either form of roleblock. Artist and Blackmailer are the two roles I'd guess are most likely in their hands, as the first allows them to make informed kills and the latter allows them to cut villagers off from posting and voting.
  3. In this case, lynching inactive is more-or-less pointless, as if they stay that way they'll die anyway. However that does mean we may want to be more considerate about lynching actives, as a mistake there could easily cost us the game if we're losing too many inactive players simultaneously.
47 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:
 
 
 
 

Aman, I did think about using a mention for Seonid when I voted on him, but I thought he'd see it without the mention. I didn't think it was necessary to mention Orlok either since he was looking at the thread right then. I'll keep it in mind though(the need for mentions annoys me, but there is a need sometimes >>).

Oh, look, the player I voted on hasn't responded to my vote, so there's no need for me to comment on the lynch. Nice! ...I'm kidding of course. :P Stick seems like she's a villager to me. I've played with Stick when she's been an eliminator, so I feel like I can read to her some extent. Straw, I'm undecided on. He has posted more than usual for Day 1, thanks to Aman's proddings, but I haven't seen enough to say either way at this point. Silverblade, eh, I don't see his vote as too unusual or suspicious. I don't remember how he plays as an eliminator compared to when he's a villager, but it seems close to how he always plays(but do speak up more SB!). Out of the 3, I'd vote on Straw or Silverblade. Probably Straw, because I'm kind of paranoid of you Aman and I could see you voting on Straw like that and then getting him to speak up like he has a lot easier if you guys are teammates. I also have a bad feeling about Joe, but that's entirely gut, so I should ignore it. I thought Brightness sorta sounded like she's a villager. Len is only making plans and not voting or commenting on the votes. Not sure if that's suspicious for him or not.

That's about all I can think of for now.

And you got 'em all Aman. Steph is my little sister(she said to say hi to you, so "hi" :P), and Biggo and Brightness are older than me.

Orlok? I don't remember mentioning Orlok. But fair enough, to basically everything. Although I am curious about your gut on Joe and if the giant post he just ninja'd me with has any affect on it (also, @A Joe in the Bush, go do your work! :P) As for Straw, we're not teammates, I've just been pretty irked with lurkers / inactives since LG30, and Straw felt like the best candidate at the time for me to pick on. I am very glad he was more responsive than Phatt was, which is part of the reason why I retracted my vote. I don't want to punish him when he actually took the time to respond, and if his increase in activity is because he's an elim getting prodded by Villaman™ then I'd rather give him a few days to produce more content for us to analyze. That being said, I wouldn't necessarily mind lynching him to prove we're not teammates, although I'd rather wait for a better reason. Besides, I doubt it would do any good, as it's not like I've never bussed an ally before, or that him turning out to be a villager would clear me any way.

...

I'd quote / respond to Joe but I don't really see anything notable right now. He didn't really say anything about me at all this time, which could mean he learned his lesson from when he made a similar post in LG30 and set me off with his comments. I know you said you're done for the day, Joe, but is there a specific reason you're avoiding commenting on me?

:ph34r:

Edited by Amanuensis
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31 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Len is only making plans and not voting or commenting on the votes. Not sure if that's suspicious for him or not.

I usually do SE between other activities, and most of the time that I would be spending looking over players and votes has been instead spent in the LG and in PMs this game about the coin plan. Had there been anything too out-of-the-ordinary in the thread I might have commented on it, but so far it's mainly been poke votes and votes for not being helpful. But since you mention it, I'll go analyze stuff.

 

Neither of the lynches on Straw or Silverblade seem like they've got much evidence backing them up: it's retaliation votes, inactivity votes, and gut reads. While reading back over the thread, there was one thing that set off my suspicions a bit, and it was said by Stick:

Quote

Yeah, from what I've noticed, elims try to suggest (or sometimes just strongly support) ideas that may seem helpful to the village but actually aren't. Of the ideas proposed in the game until now, I don't see it yet, but I think that we should keep out eyes open for them is all.

--Stick, emphasis mine

The bolded section is is a subtle defense of the players who posted before this. If Stick was an elim, it might be her trying to give credibility to an elim teammate who posted before her, and at the same time start a line of suspicion that would result in the lynch of the first villager who proposed a substandard plan.

While it's not a whole lot, it's the biggest gut read I've got so far. Stick

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I'm here,  I'm alive.

I don't tend to participate d1 much. I love the theory of the d1 lynch,  but I've never managed to make it work out for me.

I haven't seen anything suspicious yet,  but I'll be watching and waiting. 

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It has been stressed that this is a game against time, and thus I very much support a D1 lynch. Normally, I would hang back to bring around a more solid suspicion with more evidence, but I feel that we can't afford to do that. Straw was accused for being brief and avoiding elaboration, which may be an Elim signal, but I'm not taking it seriously yet. Silverblade was accused for lurking, and that may also be an Elim signal, but yet again, I don't think it proves much right now.

40 minutes ago, Elenion said:

Neither of the lynches on Straw or Silverblade seem like they've got much evidence backing them up: it's retaliation votes, inactivity votes, and gut reads. While reading back over the thread, there was one thing that set off my suspicions a bit, and it was said by Stick:

The bolded section is is a subtle defense of the players who posted before this. If Stick was an elim, it might be her trying to give credibility to an elim teammate who posted before her, and at the same time start a line of suspicion that would result in the lynch of the first villager who proposed a substandard plan.

While it's not a whole lot, it's the biggest gut read I've got so far. Stick

^This is something worth noting. It is a gut read, but the thought process seems sound to me. Now, I will give benefit of the doubt some, because I have made suspicious wording before, when I was Village. But Stick is my greatest suspicion right now.

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