Is it "problematic" to want to be neurotypical?

[M_thraun]

I came across the cosmere fandom starter FAQ while searching about Steris's likely autism. The section on neurodivergence was initially fascinating until a read the section about Adien, and how the author considered his depiction "problematic" since the Dor magic gave him a neurotypical brain. This enraged me on so many levels.

I am neurodivergent, I have been diagnosed with adhd, depression, anxiety. In addition I'm quite certain I have either autism spectrum or a personality disorder. I have struggled socially, romantically and even career wise because of this. My father has severe problems with sensory processing and connecting to others and has been lonely and unhappy for years.

If you offered a "cure" for me I would gladly take it without hesitation. A fantasy story in which a character who suffering from neurodivergence and is made "normal" is something I can relate to.

It's no more "problematic" than a fantasy about flying falling through the sky, wielding a magic blade, or fighting giant lobster monsters.

Admittedly I have very strong feelings about this subject, and feel neurotypical people should not even give an opinion, since they do not know what it is like.

[Sunbird]

1 hour ago, M_thraun said:

Admittedly I have very strong feelings about this subject, and feel neurotypical people should not even give an opinion, since they do not know what it is like.

...

If you don't want neurotypical people to give an opinion, why are you posting this on a public forum where at least some neurotypical people are sure to respond?

Not saying I disagree with your negative views about the article author's attitude, but consider the possibility that some neurodivergent people besides yourself may not take kindly to implications that they need to be "cured" if they experience different, less difficult forms of neurodivergence than you do.

[Darkness Ascendant]

@M_thraun What sunbird said...

This could start a flame war...

@Chaos Thoughts?

Honestly, everyone is different and have their own ideals, I find everyone's PoV to be fascinating.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

6 hours ago, Sunbird said:

...

If you don't want neurotypical people to give an opinion, why are you posting this on a public forum where at least some neurotypical people are sure to respond?

Not saying I disagree with your negative views about the article author's attitude, but consider the possibility that some neurodivergent people besides yourself may not take kindly to implications that they need to be "cured" if they experience different, less difficult forms of neurodivergence than you do.

I'm going to second what Sunbird said here. I was with you until that last sentence; if you're going to exclude all neurotypical people, why post it to a forum where they're sure to be? I don't think you intended it this way, but it does come across as rude. Neurotypical people might not know what it's like to be neurodivergent, but that does not mean they automatically have nothing of value to contribute, be it sympathy or a book that helped a friend of a friend. 

[Quiver]

8 hours ago, M_thraun said:

I came across the cosmere fandom starter FAQ while searching about Steris's likely autism. The section on neurodivergence was initially fascinating until a read the section about Adien, and how the author considered his depiction "problematic" since the Dor magic gave him a neurotypical brain. This enraged me on so many levels.

I don't think it's problematic to want to be "normal", so long as it's placed in a proper context; that that is one person's opinion. Someone may want to be considered normal by society; someone else may may feel insulted by the implication that they need to be fixed. There are -and can be- a range of opinions on the subject.

(This is only tangentially related... I've spoken, at length, about how much Vin means to me as a character, because I read a lot of her paranoid and obsessive behaviours as mirror ing my own. She was the first protagonist I really related to... and I liked the fact that her story arc had her admitting that, no, these behaviours are part of who she is. She might not be able to change them, but she can manage them, and they won't prevent her living  afull and happy life; that was empowering to me. Someone else might have preferred if she conquered her fears entirely, showing that that is possible. Neither of us are wrong, we just look for different things in media)

Also, a disclaimer: I am Neurotypical, and am not well-versed in this stuff. Apologies if I offend anyone; if I do offend, all I can offer as a paper shield is... I am dumb. And I learn things by talking with people, so if you see something outrageously offensive here, please call me out on it so I can correct my attitudes.

I think part of Brandon's issue with the way he wrote that character was the fact that... it was in Elantris. Specifically, the fact that Adien was the only character in his work who would be considered neuroatypical. When you have a variety of characters, they don't need to represent or mean a particular thing...

But Adien was it so far as representation went. There was no Steris, no Vin, no Kelsier, no other characters to be compared against. The closest we could get to "not normal" in Elantris besides him were the genius kids, and that was written and presented in a very different way; while the family was proud of the children, they were over-protective of Adien. And yes, the reasons as to why they treated him that way were due to the magic, not because they were ashamed or hiding him because of who he was, but...

... but Adien was it so far as representation went. Whether Brandon meant to or not, by shoing this character, in this context, and ending his arc with him being "fixed" and accepted by everyone... he might have felt that carried a certain message that he wasn't comfortable with, and implications -regarding his own thoughts- that he wasn't comfortable with.

The thing abot representation -and this is me soap boxing some - the thing about representation is, you need a lot of it. Because if you don't, then every character is taken as symptomatic of the whole, rather than being "this particular character of this particular community at this particular time." After all, these characters were created by -and ultimately obey the whims of- the author, so if he is including them, he must have a purpose or be trying to say something, isn't he?  If you have three people giving three separate opinion, you can take that as "these are three people who have different takes on a complex subject"; if you have one person, then it seems more like the author is making  a blanket statement about the entire community via this one person.

(There is also, I think an argument to be made about what constitutes "normal", and to what extent "normal" is a harmful idea that makes people ashamed of who they are and afraid of experimenting and expressing themselves... but that might be a slightly different ramble.)

[Tristan]

I have never heard of neurodivergence before, but I can tell you that I have anxiety and have gone through severe, lengthy bouts of depression. I also have epilepsy, which wasn't diagnosed until I was 15, so up until then people just thought I was weird and flighty and really out-there (that's not to say they were 100% wrong, though, as I'm kind of an artsy-fartsy goofball anyway), and I was bullied pretty bad up until my teen years. I deal with it just fine now, but up until just a few years ago it felt like a good chunk of my life was a nightmare. I don't know what you are going/have gone through, but I personally would not choose the cure, no matter how many panic attacks, low points, or seizures I have. All those experiences shape my personality and perspective, and they allow me to better understand people who have had similar experiences. Not sure if it's worth anything, but that's just my opinion. I can see on the flip side how it would be different for someone else, though.

[Jondesu]

@Tristan, I can identify with a decent amount of that, though it seems our personalities are fairly different.  I have dealt with anxiety and depression for a long time too, and I'm still in a very low point overall, though I've backed up from having actual suicidal thoughts.  For me, though?  I'd absolutely take a "cure" for this.  It nearly took my life, and I need it to change.  I'm taking medications to help, in fact, but they're far from a cure.

[soyperson]

On 4/1/2017 at 11:18 PM, Tristan said:

I have never heard of neurodivergence before, but I can tell you that I have anxiety and have gone through severe, lengthy bouts of depression. I also have epilepsy, which wasn't diagnosed until I was 15, so up until then people just thought I was weird and flighty and really out-there (that's not to say they were 100% wrong, though, as I'm kind of an artsy-fartsy goofball anyway), and I was bullied pretty bad up until my teen years. I deal with it just fine now, but up until just a few years ago it felt like a good chunk of my life was a nightmare. I don't know what you are going/have gone through, but I personally would not choose the cure, no matter how many panic attacks, low points, or seizures I have. All those experiences shape my personality and perspective, and they allow me to better understand people who have had similar experiences. Not sure if it's worth anything, but that's just my opinion. I can see on the flip side how it would be different for someone else, though.

Although I am loosely what could be described as neurotypical (I haven't heard of it either) the most neurodivergent it gets for me is ADHD, depression, and the occasional bout of anxiety. Also, a life-changing diagnosis of a chronic disease at age eight. Type 1 Diabetes has really changed the way my world works. It essentially stole my childhood out from under me, forcing a great deal of responsibility upon my small chubby self (side note: I am no longer small nor chubby) and making it impossible to have a "normal childhood." Possibly because of this, I've always found it easier to relate to most anyone. I've met so many wonderful people and gone through so many amazing things... I don't think I'd take it back if I could. It's just who I am.

[Staphylococcus]

On 4/4/2017 at 0:14 PM, bleeder said:

 I don't think I'd take it back if I could. It's just who I am.

Wow I really admire you for saying this. My little brother too has had type 1 diabetes from the age of 8 and since then my mom's life has been dedicated to finding ways to cure him. She knows about every single research there is for artificial pancreas and such.

I also had a boyfriend with type 1 and he too really wanted to get rid of it.

Saying you wouldn't change it is, well, amazing

I just wanted to say I like your way of thinking have a lovely day

[soyperson]

4 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

Wow I really admire you for saying this. My little brother too has had type 1 diabetes from the age of 8 and since then my mom's life has been dedicated to finding ways to cure him. She knows about every single research there is for artificial pancreas and such.

I also had a boyfriend with type 1 and he too really wanted to get rid of it.

Saying you wouldn't change it is, well, amazing

I just wanted to say I like your way of thinking have a lovely day

That's really sweet. Thank you very much. 

It's a tough life, but it's definitely not one I'd not want to live. 

I have a long rambling story about my life and the disease and stuff but that sorta derails this thread, so if any of y'all want to hear (see? read?) my whole spiel about this, DM me and let me know. 

[Staphylococcus]

32 minutes ago, bleeder said:

That's really sweet. Thank you very much. 

It's a tough life, but it's definitely not one I'd not want to live. 

I have a long rambling story about my life and the disease and stuff but that sorta derails this thread, so if any of y'all want to hear (see? read?) my whole spiel about this, DM me and let me know. 

DMd. Or, well, I hope so