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PallonianFire

Hoid and the Element

27 posts in this topic

So, through a thread in our Cosmere: Theories group on Facebook, I came to a realization. Not sure how much this has been explored before (it's clearly been somewhat considered, since there are WoBs that vaguely relate to it), but I think Hoid used that bead of Lerasium for a lot more than is obvious.

So Lerasium works by re-writing the Spirit Web to make someone an Allomancer. But we know from WoB that it can do more than that, if you know what you're doing:

Quote

BRANDON SANDERSON

By burning it you gain access to those powers. It rewrites your spiritual DNA, and there are ways to do really cool things with lerasium that I don't see how anyone would know

Now, we also know that when Hoid grabbed the bead, he intended to use it to become an Allomancer (the obvious case):

Quote

BRANDON SANDERSON

His bead? Hoid’s bead was—He originally got it because he wanted to be an Allomancer. [Note that he doesn’t actually answer the question.

The use of the word originally implies that his purpose changed. While I do think that Hoid used the bead to gain Allomancy—since he obviously acquired it somehow, and Lerasium is the only method we know of to do so—I think he also realized that he could use it to re-write his Spirit Web in other ways than that, and that he's gained much more than just Allomancy by ingesting it. It could be that, with the right knowledge, Hoid could make himself an Elantrian, or a Sand Master, or, basically, whatever. It would just take study to re-write his Spirit Web in those alternate ways.

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Personally I think it has something to do with trying to become an Elantrian. Or maybe we won't get the answer until the end of the first stormlight arc.

Ive got the feeling it's gonna be something pretty significant though! 

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Yeah, people have seized on the implication that lerasium's power is really 'rewrite your spiritweb' with 'become a Mistborn' being only its default setting as the basis for various theories as to what Hoid is using the bead for. One possibility that makes a certain amount of sense (given that we do see him using emotional Allomancy in Shallan's Middlefest flashback) is that he used a small amount of the lerasium to give himself specific Allomantic abilities he wants/needs and he's saving the rest for further research.

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21 minutes ago, Weltall said:

One possibility that makes a certain amount of sense (given that we do see him using emotional Allomancy in Shallan's Middlefest flashback) is that he used a small amount of the lerasium to give himself specific Allomantic abilities he wants/needs and he's saving the rest for further research.

Yeah, that's precisely what I think he's doing. And in the meantime, he's using the remaining Lerasium as a metalmind.

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I like this. I've been a supporter for some time of the idea he's only used it as a misting alloy so far but this is a good idea for why he'd be keeping it, better than my idea of wanting to create other mistings or not wanting to have too much connection to one Shard. It would still seem strange to me that Preservation's essence could grant connection to a different Shard but it's certainly an intriguing idea.

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What if using Lerasium rewrites your sDNA to give you connection to the world you are on at the time you use it? and therefore access to that world's investiture.

use it on Scadrial = Alloymancy

Use it on Sel = Selish power based on location at time of use.

Use it on Talidan = Sand Mastery

Etc. 

That would be something Hoid would be excited to have access to.

 

 

This would be in line with Atium via hemalurgy being able to steal all powers regardless of investiture.

i.e. Laresaium can grant (likely through a feruchemical process, but that just me)  all powers regardless of investiture.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Harmonium (likely by burning it as of the Southern Scadrian's vessels i.e. Allomantically) could being used to fuel  all powers regardless of investiture as well. But that gets into the realm of crazy.

NOTE: Only the use of Atium is confirmed the others are my speculations.

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How would Lerasium do this? In other words, how would it know what part of the spiritweb it was supposed to give you? Does it get infornmation from the Shard? (not 17th shard, the shard of the planet it's on)

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31 minutes ago, Figberts said:

How would Lerasium do this? In other words, how would it know what part of the spiritweb it was supposed to give you? Does it get infornmation from the Shard? (not 17th shard, the shard of the planet it's on)

Maybe the same way as Feruchemical duralumin is able to create a connection to the country you're in currently?

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Could it not be alloyed with other God metals, such as tanavastium to obtain an effect similar to alloying it with viable allomantic metals?

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3 hours ago, Itchy Savant said:

Could it not be alloyed with other God metals, such as tanavastium to obtain an effect similar to alloying it with viable allomantic metals?

In what proportion?  And how would you get that amount of tanavastium out of the Honorblade?

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I liked this idea @PallonianFire but there's a WoB from yesterday's signing on this (maybe it was asked in response to your theory).

Quote

Q: Did Hoid use the bead of lerasium to rewrite his spiritual DNA in a way to give him something other than allomantic powers?

A: His goal was to become an allomancer.

Q: Yeah and did he use it to create other powers?

A: It could not give powers other than allomancy.

Q: Because it’s lerasium?

A: Yes.

Q: So he did burn it and become an allomancer.

A: Well you have seen him use allomancy…

Q: It’s creating a lot of confusion.

A: You have actually seen him use allomancy.

So it looks like a firm no on getting other powers. Interestingly it even sounds like it can't give feruchemical powers.

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32 minutes ago, Extesian said:

So it looks like a firm no on getting other powers. Interestingly it even sounds like it can't give feruchemical powers.

Lerasium seems to be confirmed as not giving other powers but... what about alloys of Lerasium? My best guess would be that an alloy of Lerasium could give Feruchemy but my wild guess would be that if you alloy Lerasium with the right stuff from other worlds then you could use the Lerasium alloy to gain any power.

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18 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

Lerasium seems to be confirmed as not giving other powers but... what about alloys of Lerasium? My best guess would be that an alloy of Lerasium could give Feruchemy but my wild guess would be that if you alloy Lerasium with the right stuff from other worlds then you could use the Lerasium alloy to gain any power.

It is possible but Brandon would really be doing some Aes Sedai-style trolling. It sounds pretty clear he's saying that's it's limits generally otherwise Hoid surely could have just done that. But I've seen more misleading WoBs before, bless him :)

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10 hours ago, Extesian said:

It is possible but Brandon would really be doing some Aes Sedai-style trolling.

As Oversleep revealed to us, Brandon has been studying Lightsong's methods and has started engaging in trolling-by-proxy so I wouldn't put it past him. xD

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Haha yeah, I had a Polish guy from my Facebook group ask the question. Definitely a bummer, but like people said, Brandon did leave some wiggle room there.

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On 21/03/2017 at 8:24 AM, Tsidqiyah said:

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Harmonium (likely by burning it as of the Southern Scadrian's vessels i.e. Allomantically) could being used to fuel  all powers regardless of investiture as well. But that gets into the realm of crazy.

I hope for everybody nearby's safety that you're not implying an Allomancer should try putting Harmonium in their mouths!?

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@Aaronator17, there was a thread discussing this a while back that said you might be able to encase harmonium in another allomantic metal, then burn them in rapid sequence while flaring pewter.

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I really want someone stupid to blow themselves up trying this 

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13 hours ago, Aaronator17 said:

I hope for everybody nearby's safety that you're not implying an Allomancer should try putting Harmonium in their mouths!?

No i was thinking that Harmonium could be used as a fuel source for mechanical applications of ALL systems. yes we have really only seen mechanical applications on Scadrial (unless you count fabrials) BUT i believe i saw WoB that would imply all systems are subject to this type of use.

And anyone who tries to eat Harmonium should be eligible for a Darwin Award in my opinion (unless there is collateral casualties.), or what ever Silverlight calls the same concept.

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2 hours ago, Tsidqiyah said:

And anyone who tries to eat Harmonium should be eligible for a Darwin Award in my opinion (unless there is collateral casualties.), or what ever Silverlight calls the same concept.

I nominate the title of Sadeas Award, in keeping with the idea that one should be too dumb to live and amply demonstrate this fact by removing oneself from the gene pool through said abject stupidity.

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1 hour ago, Weltall said:

I nominate the title of Sadeas Award, in keeping with the idea that one should be too dumb to live and amply demonstrate this fact by removing oneself from the gene pool through said abject stupidity.

How about the Yeden award? Or better yet, how about the Allomancer Jak Award?

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Posted (edited)

Speaking of Darwin, does the cosmere even have evolution? I can't see why it wouldn't, but we have seen long times pass with no wildlife change.

Edited by Figberts
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Posted (edited)

32 minutes ago, Figberts said:

Speaking of Darwin, does the cosmere even have evolution? I can't see why it wouldn't, but we have seen long times pass with no wildlife change.

I see no reason why it wouldn't. We just usually don't see it hapoen because a shard messes things up. What long time are you referring to?

Edited by Spoolofwhool
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Setting aside those places we know a Shard has directly intervened, we know there are lots of worlds that support life and there's no reason to assume that the basic principles of natural selection wouldn't operate on them. Sure, there would be additional factors in play (ie Sixth of the Dusk is more likely to pass his genes on than other trappers thanks to Sak's ability to show him his potential deaths) but all that still gets accounted for in the basic 'descent with modification' principle. You just add the factor that possessing or figuring out how to interact with local manifestations of Investiture increases your odds of reproductive success.

Even in worlds with an active Shardic presence the principles would apply whenever said godlike entity isn't actively meddling. We know for example that the skaa started out less intelligent than the nobles (among a few other differences) but that this had washed away over a thousand years of interbreeding. It's not hard to see how any noble genes for better intelligence would get passed on, to say nothing of Allomantic sDNA making you more likely to survive to pass your genes on to the next generation. Rosharan genetics may be extremely wonky by our standards but they clearly operate on understandable laws and the non-sapient flora and fauna has obviously adapted to a world with highstorms, lower gravity and the presence of spren bonds in various ways.

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If Lerasium is burned to get Allomantic power, then perhaps Hoid is collecting not just powers, but also God Metals from all shards. Brandon said Hoid had Allomancy. But I didn't notice him saying Hoid burned the metal. He just let us assume that. The "element" sounds like something external to him, and perhaps on/in his skin. 

I have supposed Hoid is getting little bits of each power, because if you have a lot of any investiture, it is hard to get them combined. It is easier to combine them if you have small amounts. 

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