New Fablehaven book: Dragonwatch

[Djarskublar]

This came out the other day, and it was pretty good. I'd give it an 8/10. I felt that it was a little fast paced, but I was pleased by it.

It returned to the same characters, which was good.

Without spoiling anything, Seth was waaay less annoying in this book. His character growth made him much more likeable by the end. I always liked him, but now he has the awesome without the pure stupidity. At least, by the end he does. There were some plot gimmicks that didn't sit well with me at the end, but the story was good and well foreshadowed.

Overall good stuff. I was especially happy since I didn't even finish the Beyonders stuff. It was crap.

I even got to read it a day early since my grandmother is a librarian and let me read it the day before she stocked it in the library.

[Modal Seoul]

22 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

I was especially happy since I didn't even finish the Beyonders stuff. It was crap.

How dare you. Beyonders is is by far the best thing I've ever read.

I haven't read Dragonwatch yet though. How many books is he planning?

[Djarskublar]

I don't know how many books are planned, probably 5 again, at a guess.

And how could you like Beyonders? I finished the first two, but only got ~100 pages into the third before I just read the last 20 and put it down. The first book was okay, I couldn't really see anything to recommend it, but I didn't hate it either. The second book started to really strain plausibility, and by the third book, I was done. I couldn't believe it any more. Everything happening was just too improbable. By any stretch of the imagination, they should have lost at some point, or at least had more of them die. Jason only survived by sheer luck and because his opponents were too honorable to just finish him. The duel with billiard balls? Um, no. That should never have been a thing. Through the whole thing, I was just thinking 'why doesn't the evil king just zap them?' He is certainly powerful enough to do it, he just doesn't bother.

Dragonwatch (and Fablehaven, for that matter) were much better. The characters were in real trouble, and were powerful and clever enough to get out of it. There was luck involved, but it wasn't constant sheer luck. Dragonwatch made large strides in character development that I never really saw in Beyonders. I was very concerned that it would be bad, but I was very pleasantly surprised. There will definitely be a sequel, I just don't know how many. I would have like Dragonwatch better if it had been 50-100 pages longer, but it was okay as is. The end was really awesome, but required one improbability that I didn't like, though it made the story have more potential side plots in the future, which is good.

[Sunbird]

First, a disclaimer: I've bought a copy of Dragonwatch but have not read it yet.

@Captains Domon Here's what I've heard Brandon Mull say about Dragonwatch at signings/panels: It will be a five-book series, just like the original run of Fablehaven, that will read like Fablehaven books 6-10 because it's still about Kendra and Seth and there's not a huge time gap between the events at the end of Keys to the Demon Prison and the start of Dragonwatch. He has also said that the events of all 5 books of Dragonwatch will probably span about a year of in-story time.

On 3/18/2017 at 9:01 PM, Djarskublar said:

... I didn't even finish the Beyonders stuff. It was crap.

1 hour ago, Djarskublar said:

And how could you like Beyonders?

This is not a good attitude to have if you want to make friends. Sure, debate the pros and cons of any given book/series, but don't act like you have any right to put someone down for liking something that you don't. I enjoyed Beyonders immensely, and one of the big reasons for that is one of the reasons you keep dissing it--the improbability of the heroes succeeding. It's fun to see characters I care about accomplish a good thing that's nearly impossible. It sounds to me like you're chafing at the fact that Brandon Mull aims his books toward middle-grade readers and is therefore sort of required to have a mostly happy ending and a lot less required to write a "gritty" story to make it "realistic."

[Darkness Ascendant]

BEYONDERS WAAS AMAAAZINGG

[Djarskublar]

I was legitimately asking for @Captains Domon's opinion. Though I guess it did come off petulant.

To answer your point, @Sunbird, I have no issue with middle-grade books in general, though the quality standards for them tend to be lower. I read Alcatraz, after all, and loved it. The story doesn't need to be gritty, it just needs to have a base level of believablity, which Beyonders did not have for me. There is a difference between a middle-grade story and a story where the villain's actions make no sense when considered from their perspective, or even outside it.

A good example of a decent middle-grade book would be Slathbog's Gold. While I would criticize it for making the MC too powerful, I wouldn't voice that very loudly. The villains are still really tough, so there is a sense of danger. Plus, the side characters could actually die, so that adds to the tension. The characters have a good chemistry with each other, and interesting life philosophies. Beyond that, the book avoids my most hated issue, where the characters are really powerful, and then rarely use their power because it would break the plot otherwise. Examples of that would be Harry Potter or Leven Thumps. Slathbog's Gold felt almost like a D&D game with very high level characters.

My issue with Beyonders is that until the girl learns magic (in the third book, mind), both of the MCs are ridiculously underpowered. They are literally just two kids. No magic sword, no special powers, nothing to make them worth the food they consume in that world. And yet, they are a thorn in the side of the villain for so long. And even with all this, they never really have anything go wrong for them. The only thing I really felt that they truly accomplished for themselves was the guy beating the vizier or whatever in the puzzle game to get one of the syllables. Beyond that, they were shoehorned in, lucked out, or someone else did all the real work to get pretty much everything else done. There were also a couple instances where their normal life skills came in handy, but were nothing unique, like the ability to run across the boiling mud-lake. The MCs could have not been present and the story could have been basically the same for the first two books if that one musician guy had started the quest instead of them.

Beyond that, the MCs were sooo cookie-cutter. They had no character quirks. They didn't even have much moral dilemma beyond 'do I have to be the one to do this?' for about 5 seconds per book. There was not really any 'holy crap I might die, this might not be worth it' or 'hey this villain does have at least a tiny moral gray area, so is it really for the best to get rid of him? There is law and order after all.' They were, in a word, boring. The threat of not being able to go home was their only motivator beyond altruism, and that somehow pushed them forward past everything they knew.

With Fablehaven, on the other hand, the characters are interesting. Seth is a total goofball, and Kendra is basically his other half. The characters have depth that I just didn't see in Beyonders. Beyond that (pun intended), the characters have power and protections, and they use them to their advantage. They rarely luck their way out of anything, and mostly get through things with cleverness and good use of their resources. The Beyonders just run away all the time and let other people do all the fighting. They were literally just vehicles to get prophecies rolling and getting the resistance off its collective butt. It was highly disappointing.

I feel I have thoroughly made my case. I would like to see a similar reply on why Beyonders was good from someone who liked it. BUT! This thread isn't about Beyonders, it's about Dragonwatch, and holy cow, it will definitely be worth a re-read or two, which is very rare for me. I even re-read the climax scene again right after finishing the book because it was just that good.

Dragonwatch spoilers:

Spoiler

The whole deal with them becoming caretakers was awesome. Seth really stepped up to the challenge for the most part, and what he didn't Kendra did. Neither of them got much use out of their Fairykind/Shadow Walker powers, but they did come into play somewhat. They basically fast-talked their way through 2/3 of the book, which was clearly mostly setup for the sequels. They definitely jumped from one place and conflict to another very quickly, and resolved most of them very fast too, which I didn't like very much, but was probably necessitated by the publisher. I wish it was a fair bit longer. I am reaaally interested in the Fair Folk now. Seth is totally going to shake things up with them in the future, which I am looking forward to. The finale had me almost in tears laughing at how Seth resolved the problem. The only part of it I didn't like was how convenient it was that the Fairy King was there to let him through. The rest of it was well foreshadowed and believable.

 

[Sunbird]

@Djarskublar See, I have no problem with the post you just made in reply to mine because you presented an argument without attacking the person on the other side of the debate. The point I was trying to make was just that it's not okay to talk down to people whose book tastes are different than yours. I realize now that you weren't intending to do that, so I'm content to agree to disagree on whether Beyonders was a good series or not. As you said, this thread is about Dragonwatch, not Beyonders.

Unfortunately I won't really have much else to contribute to the discussion here until I actually finish reading Dragonwatch, so I might just bow out until I have finished it. XD

[Djarskublar]

12 hours ago, Sunbird said:

@Djarskublar See, I have no problem with the post you just made in reply to mine because you presented an argument without attacking the person on the other side of the debate. The point I was trying to make was just that it's not okay to talk down to people whose book tastes are different than yours. I realize now that you weren't intending to do that, so I'm content to agree to disagree on whether Beyonders was a good series or not. As you said, this thread is about Dragonwatch, not Beyonders.

Unfortunately I won't really have much else to contribute to the discussion here until I actually finish reading Dragonwatch, so I might just bow out until I have finished it. XD

See, I don't really see where you are coming from. The one sentence asking why they liked it was somewhat attacking, but the rest was me detailing what I thought of the books. I made no mention of the other person at all. I disagreed with their taste and told them why. I am pretty vocal about this sort of thing, so if it came across as a personal attack, I apologize, but looking at it a day later, I still see no reason for it to be seen as such. If anything, they called me out by asking how I dared dislike Beyonders. I told them.

 

Besides that, has anybody else finished this yet? Did you like it?

[Modal Seoul]

Sorry. It's just that I love Beyonders. I'm about half way through Dragonwatch right now. It's pretty sweet.

[KnightRadiant]

I've finished Dragonwatch. I bought it four days before the official release date. (I'll avoid the topic of Beyonders. Maybe some other time ).

My thoughts: it was very believable, like you said. I resonate with Kendra very strongly because I'm also a fifteen year-old girl (almost. One more month), but I also sympathize with Seth. He's like the super adventurous side of me. I think that having Tess and Knox added into the story rounded the whole Fablehaven world out. I mean, they all have other family, and sometimes that family visits (like Kendra and Seth in the first book). Tess spoilers:

Spoiler

Also, Tess' ability to sort of see and hear the fairies without milk is super cool. I'm really looking forward to what Brandon M. does with it.

As before mentioned, it was super fast-paced and little short. But hey, it's the start of a new series. We can give him a little credit.  

I got to meet Brandon at one of his tour stops in Utah. We chatted a little (the line was super short) and he found out that I'd already finished the book. He was so excited it made my heart all warm. He had been a little reserved and courteous before, but when he heard I'd finished it he exploded. "You finished it?! What did you think? Was it good, was it solid??". Makes me happy that authors are so excited about their work . This was my first time meeting an author in person at a signing, so yeah. 
I'm definitely looking forward to reading more in Dragonwatch.

[Koldun]

I really liked Beyonders. It was good fantasy, the characters were interesting, and the plot was pretty good. Does anyone want to start a Beyonders thread? OOH Five Kingdoms is pretty good too!

Edited March 22, 2017 by Koldun

[Steeldancer]

I love Brandon mull. And right now I'm betting that by the end of the series, 

Spoiler

We find out what the underking is, we meet the giant queen, we fight Ronodin. Also I loved how that annoying kid ran through all the dragons. Absolutely fantastic. And why weren't any of the reading horses reading the way of kings? Heresy, I say!

 

[Sunbird]

I'm baaaaaack!

I started reading Dragonwatch yesterday, finished it tonight, and have had a stupid happy grin on my face all day because it feels so good to be reading about Kendra and Seth again after so long since Keys to the Demon Prison.

I gotta say, I absolutely looooved the Tiny Hero, especially knowing what I do after I heard Brandon explain the origin of the character idea at Fan-X back around the time this thread was originally posted. I don't really have time for a long, in-depth post about it right now, but basically Calvin is named after one of Brandon's kids and the scene in the labyrinth is based on a game he likes to play with them.

[Glacialis]

So... I finished the 2nd Dragonwatch book today and I have been looking for someplace to discuss this book with other people who finished the book besides Facebook where I feel bad for leaving potential spoilers.

Overall, I really like the story elements and some of concepts that have expanded the world of Fablehaven, at the same time, these books have felt like a rush job compared to The Fablehaven series, with little explanation for some of the “rules” introduced in that series.

Spoiler

For example, where is the explanation that was given to Knox and Tess for why her Grandma and Grandpa Larson aren’t dead, much less Kendra, who was also believed dead by the outside world since book 4 of Fablehaven.  

Even a throwaway comment like “they came out of hiding after being forced to take on new identities, would be better than no explanation at all for how Knox and Tess know Kendra and her grandparents aren’t dead.

I have loved all of Brandon Mull’s books, some more than others.   The Beyonders series is still my favorite with The original Fablehaven as a close 2nd.  Five kingdoms started out really well, the last two books were not as strong as the first 3, again in my opinion they felt rushed. As if Brandon was ready to move onto his next project, but felt he had to finish Five Kingdoms first.  However I did feel like he closed out the last book of the 5 kingdoms really well and for the first time he really closed out a story.

don’t get me wrong, I am really excited to see where Brandon Takes Dragonwatch,

Spoiler

Especially with Seth’s mind being erased and him finally getting an opportunity to be trained as a Shadow Charmer.  That was one twist I didn’t see coming.

The Dark unicorn is turning into one my favorite Brandon Mull villains.

I just hope he slows down the pace a little and take time to close the loopholes and get back to his best writing.

[Wyndlerunner]

Is Dragonwatch any good? I gave up on Brandon Mull after realizing that while individual books in his series are quite good, I've been unsatisfied with every series ending of his that I've read. 

So basically what I'm asking is, would Dragonwatch rinse out the bad taste in my mouth from the Fablehaven series?

[gugly88]

On 10/30/2018 at 5:35 PM, Wyndlerunner said:

Is Dragonwatch any good? I gave up on Brandon Mull after realizing that while individual books in his series are quite good, I've been unsatisfied with every series ending of his that I've read. 

So basically what I'm asking is, would Dragonwatch rinse out the bad taste in my mouth from the Fablehaven series?

I found it pretty good its the sequel to fablehaven and we get to see kendra and seth come back so thats something

[Ilajean]

Has anyone compared Fablehaven to the anime Radiant. I know both an can't help but feel many similarities just curious if anyone else has felt same. I was thinking maybe Radiant creators were fans of Fablehaven?? And yes they are kinda totally different too but in character sense many are similar??? Just curious not hating either love both just felt like many same creativity !!

[SzethTheHonorblade]

So now that the forth book has come out and the fifth one is in 5 days can i spoil the forth one?

[Frustration]

Just finished the whole series

Spoiler

Book one was alright nothing overly special

Book two started out the best of any of them, Chapter 7 was the best I have read in any series, and chapter 14 was good to. Then chapter 22 came along and ruined everything, "oh yeah, all the decisions you made didn't mean anything"

Book three was decent

Book four was fun, finally got to see another Dragon temple.

Book five was excelent, my one thing is it got rid of the "dark isn't evil" that was going on in Fablehaven

 

[doomslug3721]

So... DragonWatch... I really liked it,... but I still don't know how to feel about the last book

Ronodin (dark unicorn)

Spoiler

Ronodin was one of my Favorite villains of all time. He was an absolute chariasmaniac (magnificent bastard). But then Mull gave him a sad and pitiable background. Going along with the rhetoric that all bad guys need to be misunderstood and is really a good person, no really, they are a good person they just had a tragic backstory.

Once you hear his background his character kind of falls apart. Why in the world did he keep going down the dark path? Why didn't he try to fix his mistake? It makes him look like he INNOCENTLY hurt all of fairydom and then LEFT. The picture it paints doesn't match up with who he is now, and it's confusing as heck. Then, when it is finally time to get his butt whooped, we don't get to see it, he just runs off stage with a giant demon chasing him.

Seth

Spoiler

Seth is my favorite character in both series, fablehaven and dragonwatch. In this book he gets a bit overpowered,(we can all agree the series is suffering from power creep right) and he uses it... And that's a lot of dead people piling up Seth. You sure you don't want to stop killing? No? Okay then.

I get that he just got his memories back, but I mean 5 sentient creatures dead in 3 chapters? There is just a lot of killing, I'm pretty sure that by the end of the book he has directly or indirectly caused more deaths then there are chapters in the book. He eventually comes to question all the killing, but it feels a bit late for me.  I also didn't really like how he got rid of his dark powers effectively losing the 'dark isn't evil' thing. (see the post above) Also I have a question about that, it says that he can still talk to the undead, but what about other dark languages? Can he still speak those?

Other than that he is really quite cool and humorous like always. (during a duel with a giant he says" just warning you, I can fly, and BOTH of my swords have names" it's great) You can also tell he has matured a bit.

Kendra

Spoiler

My main problem with Kendra in the last book is her power. She has been fairyKind seance the end of the first book, she has had powers clearly stated for most of that time, Dark-vision, the ability to command fairy's in the name of the queen, and the ability to see magical creatures. It feels as if her new powers are a bit shoe-horned in. And the fact that she goes to rescue someone without any plan at all, that feels like something Seth would do, not Kendra.

Other things

Spoiler

1.    So the translocator gets brought back in this book, but I think Mull forgot about the 3 person rule. I would have been fine if they said that a wizard had worked on it and had fixed that quirk. Instead the author just forgot about one of the biggest limitations of 'The Keys To The Demon Prison'. Not to happy about that. 

2.    The end battle is a bit much for me as well. They are in a kingdom that 'without the dragon slayers 10 dragons could take this kingdom, with them 30 could probably do it'. The army they are facing has over 2,000 dragons, even when Celebrent dies all the dragons would have to is focus their might on the keep. Some people might point out the 7 armies probably about the same size as the kingdom's. If every army had 50 dragons focus on it, that would leave 1,650 dragons to attack everything else.(including the kingdom) Even with the extra 7 armies the kingdom should have been very very dead, instead the dragons seemed content to invade the kingdom then let the fight come to them.

Now none of this is to say that I hated the last book, on the contrary I thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact I only noticed a few of these while reading the book. (#2 of other things I only realized while writing this) I really love the books and look forward to reading more of his books.

[Frustration]

16 hours ago, doomslug3721 said:

So... DragonWatch... I really liked it,... but I still don't know how to feel about the last book

Ronodin (dark unicorn)

  Hide contents

Ronodin was one of my Favorite villains of all time. He was an absolute chariasmaniac (magnificent bastard). But then Mull gave him a sad and pitiable background. Going along with the rhetoric that all bad guys need to be misunderstood and is really a good person, no really, they are a good person they just had a tragic backstory.

Once you hear his background his character kind of falls apart. Why in the world did he keep going down the dark path? Why didn't he try to fix his mistake? It makes him look like he INNOCENTLY hurt all of fairydom and then LEFT. The picture it paints doesn't match up with who he is now, and it's confusing as heck. Then, when it is finally time to get his butt whooped, we don't get to see it, he just runs off stage with a giant demon chasing him.

 

Solid agree. I read that part and felt quite let down.

16 hours ago, doomslug3721 said:

Seth

  Hide contents

Seth is my favorite character in both series, fablehaven and dragonwatch. In this book he gets a bit overpowered,(we can all agree the series is suffering from power creep right) and he uses it... And that's a lot of dead people piling up Seth. You sure you don't want to stop killing? No? Okay then.

I get that he just got his memories back, but I mean 5 sentient creatures dead in 3 chapters? There is just a lot of killing, I'm pretty sure that by the end of the book he has directly or indirectly caused more deaths then there are chapters in the book. He eventually comes to question all the killing, but it feels a bit late for me.  I also didn't really like how he got rid of his dark powers effectively losing the 'dark isn't evil' thing. (see the post above) Also I have a question about that, it says that he can still talk to the undead, but what about other dark languages? Can he still speak those?

Other than that he is really quite cool and humorous like always. (during a duel with a giant he says" just warning you, I can fly, and BOTH of my swords have names" it's great) You can also tell he has matured a bit.

 

Spoiler

Honestly I really enjoyed him being overpowered. Though I will agree the loss of "Dark isn't evil" makes me sad. It was such a nice dinamic allowing Seth to be good and dark allowed dark creatures the ability to choose evil. Though demons becoming demons kind of helps but not a lot.

 

16 hours ago, doomslug3721 said:

Other things

  Hide contents

1.    So the translocator gets brought back in this book, but I think Mull forgot about the 3 person rule. I would have been fine if they said that a wizard had worked on it and had fixed that quirk. Instead the author just forgot about one of the biggest limitations of 'The Keys To The Demon Prison'. Not to happy about that. 

2.    The end battle is a bit much for me as well. They are in a kingdom that 'without the dragon slayers 10 dragons could take this kingdom, with them 30 could probably do it'. The army they are facing has over 2,000 dragons, even when Celebrent dies all the dragons would have to is focus their might on the keep. Some people might point out the 7 armies probably about the same size as the kingdom's. If every army had 50 dragons focus on it, that would leave 1,650 dragons to attack everything else.(including the kingdom) Even with the extra 7 armies the kingdom should have been very very dead, instead the dragons seemed content to invade the kingdom then let the fight come to them.

Now none of this is to say that I hated the last book, on the contrary I thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact I only noticed a few of these while reading the book. (#2 of other things I only realized while writing this) I really love the books and look forward to reading more of his books.

Spoiler

1. Yeah the more than three people with the Translocator really made me double take. Though it's not the only thing forgoten since Fablehaven, Mendigo was fixed at the end of "Keys to the Demon Prison." but in the first Dragonwatch he's been fixed for the first time.
2. I thought that it was more Thronis making it impossible for them to fly that forced them to give up. But you definatly have a point Dragons lost a lot of their threat.