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Oathbringer Update #7


Araz

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Brandon just posted his seventh update over on the stormlight subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/5zidxz/oathbringer_spoilers_stormlight_three_update_7/

 

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All,

Back with another update. It's been a few months, and I have worked through the third draft of Oathbringer. Original draft didn't have a few of the interludes, so I added those in this revision, as well as incorporating feedback from my team and the team at Tor Books. Earlier today, I wrote the epigraphs and the Wit monologue, then polished off the ketek. 

The current length is 514,000 words--so around 100k longer than Words of Radiance. Whew! That's big enough that we're not sure if we can bind it in paperback. (We can manage it in hardcover without too much trouble, though we might have to do some old term paper tricks such as expanding the margins.) The book won't be split in the hardcover US release, or in the ebook, but there's a possibility the US paperback might be split into two volumes released at the same time. (As has been common in the UK for all the books in the series.)

We'll see what happens. Next revision, 4.0, is to incorporate Beta Reader comments and to make some tweaks I've been thinking about. This should be the fastest of the drafts, as I don't need to make any big structural changes or write many new scenes. 

5.0 (the final draft) will be a polish and trim. Publication date is still scheduled for this November. The US cover came in just recently, so expect a reveal on that soon. Michael did a fantastic job. 

As a warning: I'm not going to be able to monitor this thread very well, as I'm off to Europe. (I'll be in Poland, Germany, and Bulgaria--details on the events section of my website.) So be warned in advance that I probably can't post many replies to your questions here.

I'm still making my way through my recent AMA on /r/fantasy, though, so you can pop over to that and read what I've had to say recently. 

As always, thanks for your patience. Beta read responses to the book are strong, so I think you'll be pleased with the result come this fall. 

 

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Does anyone know offhand how much Brandon had trimmed in past SA drafts? His comments about the projected size even after several more revisions have my eyes bugging out (in a good way). Eight months and the Everstorm comes...

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3 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Does anyone know offhand how much Brandon had trimmed in past SA drafts? His comments about the projected size even after several more revisions have my eyes bugging out (in a good way). Eight months and the Everstorm comes...

He said, in a previous update, he might trim down some of the "fluff" within Part 2 as he wasn't sure about it. I think he was waiting for the comments from the beta read and since I have no idea how the beta readers reacted to it, then well, I don't know what the status is on Part 2. I guess it all depends on how sensitive and/or interested into side stories and/or prolonged interludes within the main narrative the chosen group readers is. After all, we all have our personal tastes and I have seen very invested readers alternatively like/dislike given parts of the story and not always the same.

That's one of the weakness of a beta read: while authors chose people based on a series of criteria, the sample isn't guaranteed to be entirely representative of the major group of casual readers. In Brandon's cases, he chose beta readers based on their involvement within the community and, more importantly, based on recommendations from his already existing group of beta readers. Just like everything, the process probably isn't entirely transparent and it is likely a few given biases have been used.

Hence, no way of knowing if he'll trim it or not, but if trimming he does, I suspect it'll be within the fourth draft.

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2 hours ago, Weltall said:

Does anyone know offhand how much Brandon had trimmed in past SA drafts? His comments about the projected size even after several more revisions have my eyes bugging out (in a good way). Eight months and the Everstorm comes...

If I recall correctly he cuts 10-15% in the final revision, consistently. 

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32 minutes ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

I don't care how long it is, I will love it. I might love it more if it is longer.

Well... Someone had a valid comment to make about the length on Reddit. To make it sort, the guy is worried about SA books betting bigger and bigger. He fears Brandon might end up running out of new ideas to fill-in the remaining 7 books (I do not share his fear). He also feels too long books, such as the latest Harry Potter, are often made long by the incorporation of useless bouts.

I am personally lying within the bigger, the better group, but there it is true if Brandon tries to squeeze in too many story arcs, the main narrative might lose focus. I am personally worried about Part 2, but then again, I am worried about it because Brandon is worried about it, so he made me worried about it :ph34r:

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10 hours ago, Araz said:

Brandon just posted his seventh update over on the stormlight subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/5zidxz/oathbringer_spoilers_stormlight_three_update_7/

(I'll be in Poland, Germany, and Bulgaria--details on the events section of my website.)

Ha!

Where is this "events" section !?

PS: found it :P

Edited by restless
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I think the interludes are the longest pieces of the books for me. Some of them feel more important than others (like interludes from Szeth and Eshonai in previous books). Most of the interludes are meant to give the reader a glimpse into other parts of Roshar I suppose, but my main issue has usually been that the interludes are full of brand new names of people and cities that I end up forgetting about once I get back into the main acts of the book. 

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1 hour ago, maxal said:

Well... Someone had a valid comment to make about the length on Reddit. To make it sort, the guy is worried about SA books betting bigger and bigger. He fears Brandon might end up running out of new ideas to fill-in the remaining 7 books (I do not share his fear). He also feels too long books, such as the latest Harry Potter, are often made long by the incorporation of useless bouts.

I am personally lying within the bigger, the better group, but there it is true if Brandon tries to squeeze in too many story arcs, the main narrative might lose focus. I am personally worried about Part 2, but then again, I am worried about it because Brandon is worried about it, so he made me worried about it :ph34r:

I can't say I really share any of those fears. I think Brandon has the overall arc of Stormlight in his mind pretty well. He's not discovery writing the thing. At least not the major plot arcs and characters. And while long books CAN be filled with useless bouts, Stormlight has had none of that whatsoever. Some people complain about slow parts in Stormlight... As a WoT fan... I will never understand this. Stormlight is a roller coaster all the way through for me. If this book, or some other, starts to have sections that feel bland and pointless then let's talk. Until then, he has my trust.

However, again as a WoT fan, my number one fear is that Brandon won't be able to finish this series before being unable to (morbid as that may be). He's got a long road ahead just for Stormlight, nevermind Dragonsteel and Mistborn. I'm increasingly worried that he's planning more things than he has time for. So I am slightly worried about increasing word counts. Each word in "this" book is one word that could be put towards the "next" book. Four Oathbringers is five WoRs. A piece of me definitely hopes that the word counts max out with Oathbringer; not because I'm afraid the content will suffer, but because a small piece of me is worried he won't be able to see the whole thing through at this pace.

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4 minutes ago, jofwu said:

I can't say I really share any of those fears. I think Brandon has the overall arc of Stormlight in his mind pretty well. He's not discovery writing the thing. At least not the major plot arcs and characters. And while long books CAN be filled with useless bouts, Stormlight has had none of that whatsoever. Some people complain about slow parts in Stormlight... As a WoT fan... I will never understand this. Stormlight is a roller coaster all the way through for me. If this book, or some other, starts to have sections that feel bland and pointless then let's talk. Until then, he has my trust.

However, again as a WoT fan, my number one fear is that Brandon won't be able to finish this series before being unable to (morbid as that may be). He's got a long road ahead just for Stormlight, nevermind Dragonsteel and Mistborn. I'm increasingly worried that he's planning more things than he has time for. So I am slightly worried about increasing word counts. Each word in "this" book is one word that could be put towards the "next" book. Four Oathbringers is five WoRs. A piece of me definitely hopes that the word counts max out with Oathbringer; not because I'm afraid the content will suffer, but because a small piece of me is worried he won't be able to see the whole thing through at this pace.

I'll admit I am slightly worried about the introduction of so many additional viewpoint characters. It seems a direct violation of Brandon's initial intentions which were to keep the story focused. I have a rather high tolerances for useless bouts, in general, but SA has a much different pacing due to the interludes which, in all honesty, aren't my favorite chapters. I am fine reading them, I even enjoy them, for the most part, but I prefer when they remain short. For instance, I didn't like the Rysn one all too much because I felt it was too long. I got bored with it half-way through, but then again, there is also the fact I just didn't find her story and/or her character engaging. If I find a character engaging, I'll read through endless boring bouts, but if I don't... or if I find some other character much more interesting and if this character ends up being the one with no page time.... Then I'll rant endlessly about why does this "boring" character gets to have so many "useless" chapters when this "more interesting" character doesn't. These are thoughts which could seriously ruin my experience in SA3 and since I seriously feel it will happen, for me as a reader, then my worries increase. It also doesn't help when the author himself states he has several "useless" chapters featuring "minor and/ or new" characters. Maybe it will be great, maybe I will love it, but right now, I can't help but carrying an edge of worry.

This being said, my greatest fear is the delay in between the books will keep on getting bigger and bigger. I personally feel 4 years is a too long delay in between tomes within the same series. Obviously, more delays mean the possibility the series might not be finish will increase. I am not overly worried about SA, but I do wonder if all planned series will actually happen. 

 

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I love the books and I love the length but in all honesty, if they get much longer its going to be ridiculous. I know Brandon is all about experimenting with the art form and tropes and etc. but I'm not real sure he should be experimenting with the definition of a book. WoR is much longer than WoK. OB is much longer than WoR. It can't go on increasing. 

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52 minutes ago, maxal said:

This being said, my greatest fear is the delay in between the books will keep on getting bigger and bigger. I personally feel 4 years is a too long delay in between tomes within the same series. Obviously, more delays mean the possibility the series might not be finish will increase. I am not overly worried about SA, but I do wonder if all planned series will actually happen. 

To be fair, though, the gap between 1 and 2 was four years, while the gap between 2 and 3 is looking to be only three -- so it does appear to be shrinking. If that trend keeps up, and Brandon manages to find the most efficient balance of his time, we should be good. It's still pretty early in his career; he could easily fall into a workable routine and shave that gap down to two years by the time the back five roll around.

Edited by Slowswift
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9 minutes ago, Slowswift said:

To be fair, though, the gap between 1 and 2 was four years, while the gap between 2 and 3 is looking to be only three -- so it does appear to be shrinking. If that trend keeps up, and Brandon manages to find the most efficient balance of his time, we should be good. It's still pretty early in his career; he could easily fall into a workable routine and shave that gap down to two years by the time the back five roll around.

The gap in between 2 and 3 will be 3 years and 10 months, so almost 4 years: three years would be if the book had been released last month. I honestly doubt the gap will shrink... It might not increase, as I fear it will, but I doubt it will shrink. It took Brandon one year and a half to just write it, it needs one year of editing, so unless Brandon drops all other projects he has, I just don't see him increasing the pace. 

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Just now, maxal said:

The gap in between 2 and 3 will be 3 years and 10 months, so almost 4 years: three years would be if the book had been released last month. I honestly doubt the gap will shrink... It might not increase, as I fear it will, but I doubt it will shrink. It took Brandon one year and a half to just write it, it needs one year of editing, so unless Brandon drops all other projects he has, I just don't see him increasing the pace. 

Fair. But still, consistency has to be better than "who knows", right? 

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Just now, Slowswift said:

Fair. But still, consistency has to be better than "who knows", right? 

Sure, but Brandon sometimes sounds a bit optimistic at times. Despite having lived through the experience of having to take one extra year to finish the book, he still plans SA4 in 2019... We all know it isn't going to happen.

I would personally prefer if the books were smaller, but released at a faster pace, but YMMV.

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I wonder if Brandon would let other quality authors work on parts of the Cosmere that are not quite as central, like White Sand or some of his unpublished works (Dark One, Silence Divine, etc). There was an interesting post over on Reddit, trying to predict how long it would take to finish the Cosmere, and if Brandon would last long enough to do it. There is a decent chance he won't have enough time to finish it. 

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14 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

I wonder if Brandon would let other quality authors work on parts of the Cosmere that are not quite as central, like White Sand or some of his unpublished works (Dark One, Silence Divine, etc). There was an interesting post over on Reddit, trying to predict how long it would take to finish the Cosmere, and if Brandon would last long enough to do it. There is a decent chance he won't have enough time to finish it. 

I would be ok if it was like how Alexander Dumas operated. He has people that wrote stories based on his outline and then reviewed it adding his own flourishes here and there. At least thats how it went iirc. I do think it's a little morbid to talk about how to complete a series if a author dies. Especially when Brandon has been very good to his fans. No judgment, just my 2 cents.

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No worries, Ammanas

This thought was partly born of wanting to see some of the more obscure unpublished works, and partly a desire to see how a JIm Butcher Cosmere novel would be.

Or a Rothfuss Cosmere novel. 

or..... etc. 

And yes, just as long as they worked closely with Brandon.

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13 hours ago, maxal said:

Sure, but Brandon sometimes sounds a bit optimistic at times. Despite having lived through the experience of having to take one extra year to finish the book, he still plans SA4 in 2019... We all know it isn't going to happen.

I would personally prefer if the books were smaller, but released at a faster pace, but YMMV.

He does have the Szeth flashbacks written, so if Stones Unhallowed is next then that helps a lot probably. It all really boils down to how many other things he tries to juggle. If he finishes writing Lost Metal and any other planned books this year (pretty reasonable, I'd guess) Then he has all of 2018 to write book 4 and all of 2019 to polish it and release at the end of the year. An early 2020 book 4 release seems very possible.

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10 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

I wonder if Brandon would let other quality authors work on parts of the Cosmere that are not quite as central, like White Sand or some of his unpublished works (Dark One, Silence Divine, etc). There was an interesting post over on Reddit, trying to predict how long it would take to finish the Cosmere, and if Brandon would last long enough to do it. There is a decent chance he won't have enough time to finish it. 

I've also done some predictions over here. I built in plenty of slippage room, and it looks to me like he'll be able to finish between ages 70 and 76. As long as he doesn't have any problems with illness, he should be fine. And a serious illness could strike at any time, so I try not to worry about that when it comes to authors aging.

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Too many viewpoint characters is a definite negative in my mind. It is why I abandoned ASOIAF at book 2 and why I can't reread WoT even though when I was younger I probably reread the first 5 books 6 times.

If he keeps his core characters without much expansion I am ok with more word count per character, but if he is reducing word count per character and increasing characters I fear for later books. Hearing him speak in Houston during the WoR book tour, he seemed to be actively trying to avoid character bloat. I hope he is not reconsidering for the sake of plot or world-building. I want a characterization first author, we have enough world-building focused authors already.

Edited by dionysus
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