Surgebinding - Magic Without Focus

[Yata]

4 minutes ago, Extesian said:

But yeah that was just my thoughts I'm very happy as always to be proven wrong or understand why a system that gives innate investiture would be of one Shard but the kinetic investiture would be of two. I haven't thought it through fully, I was just floating it

Ei man, my words aren't written in the Stone. I could be wrong, I simply took the facts we know to try to find an accetable model.

A lot of things are unclear about Roshar's magic.

PS: is It not relevant but your last post made me think something. Is "Nahel" a proper name (someone's name)?

[+Extesian]

24 minutes ago, Yata said:

Ei man, my words aren't written in the Stone. I could be wrong, I simply took the facts we know to try to find an accetable model.

A lot of things are unclear about Roshar's magic.

PS: is It not relevant but your last post made me think something. Is "Nahel" a proper name (someone's name)?

Ha i know that Yata. I just take the scientific method to these things and like to be proven wrong (or right). That was a call to everyone to support or dispute. I'm curious to see if that idea has relevance is all. I see arguments both ways.

[BeskarKomrk]

On 3/14/2017 at 10:40 PM, Spoolofwhool said:

Based on the description of the mechanics surrounding the filter, I feel very strongly that it's describing the focus, as the mechanisms surrounding foci has been described very similarly. Note that how the power goes through the focus is how the Cosmere mechanics are manipulated in a manifestation of investiture. 

I actually interpreted this pretty much the opposite way. It sounds to me like he's discussing different ways that Shards could provide access to the fundamental forces while producing the same effect, rather than different effects within the system of one (or two) Shards. Honor accesses gravity through bonds, meaning that you manipulate gravity in Honor's system by bonding with an object or a direction. Another Shard with a different system could access the same force, gravity, through a different mechanism (perhaps altering local gravity so that it affects you and objects around you in a small radius, as a theoretical example). That doesn't have anything to do with foci; it's about the differences between separate magic systems.

[cometaryorbit]

On 3/16/2017 at 0:09 PM, BeskarKomrk said:

That doesn't have anything to do with foci; it's about the differences between separate magic systems.

That's my understanding of it too. Kind of like Iron/Steel Allomancy on Scadrial and Sand Mastery on Taldain; they are broadly similar powers ('telekinesis limited to a specific material') but the details are different. Or how the Aviar powers on First of the Sun are generally similar to Copper and Electrum Allomancy.

 

EDIT: IMO Surgebinding could be argued to be strictly of Honor, or of both Honor and Cultivation. I think the original Surgebinding, with the Honorblades, was Honor-only: the Blades were pieces of Honor's power and the Investiture used came directly from Honor. But the Nahel-bonding spren are of both, and Stormlight IIRC has a significant Cultivation component.

Edited March 22, 2017 by cometaryorbit

[Yitzi2]

I'm going with it being the spren.  Yes, they are a form of Investiture...but often so is metal.  (Atium certainly is, and the facts that shardblades have to be metal and that metal "glows" to Vin-as-Preservation like souls do strongly suggests that there's a significant connection in general.)