"Unite Them" --Stormlight Spoilers--

[Felt]

So i've been thinking about Dalinar's message, "Unite Them".... This could be about the Alethi, but it could also be much more... For example Unite them Shards? Unite the people of the Cosmere... Unite the Heralds... Unite the KR...

Thoughts?

[Gizmosowner]

It could mean anything but I think the most common interpretation is to unite the KR. Bondsmiths I'm pretty sure always acted as the leaders of the KR so I think it would make sense that the first bondsmith since the recreance would have to reunite the new fledgling orders of KR. Tho I think Falinar with have trouble with everyone's favorite assasin.

[Pagerunner]

Have you read the Oathbringer blurb yet?

[+Extesian]

It could mean unite the sapient races of Roshar, unite the Parshendi, the humans and the Aimians.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Extesian

[maxal]

I am within the "Unite them means unite the Knights Radiants and not Alethkar and/or the world" bandwagon. As far as I can tell, Radiants acting on their own, tend to behave badly: they have too many individual flaws. I feel the individual orders were made to complement each and when acting their own, they are weak: they are only strong when acting together which might be the cause of the negative feeling towards the Radiants. They have shown themselves to be extremely self-centered, selfish even. For instances, Dalinar is terribly rigid, he isn't allowing compromises (which are needed for true unity) and he isn't listening to what other people might have to say: it is his way or no way at all. 

I say, Bondsmiths need Edgedancers to counter balance themselves just as Edgedancers needs Windrunners to take their own words more seriously, but Windrunners need Lightweavers in order to stop taking everything at face value and so on.

 

[Felt]

1 hour ago, Pagerunner said:

Have you read the Oathbringer blurb yet?

Not yet but thanks for the link  

 "And Dalinar realizes that his holy mission to unite his homeland of Alethkar was too narrow in scope"  Thats exactly my point... And I think Brandon is going to expand on that scope a lot in coming Stormlight books, maybe even to the extent of uniting the Cosmere, but he, we will know for sure somewhere around 2050  

[king of nowhere]

I think you are reading too narrowly on the oath. It is not a statement of intention on a specific political situation, but rather a way of life. It means that whenever you face a choice, you must try to bring people together rather than dividing them. From helping nations getting along to persuading riotous kids to make peace with each other, you want to strive to unite people.

[cultivationspren]

I think that the most interesting potential meaning of this idea is to unite the heralds.  The heralds broke apart after the last desolation, and each has been following their own path since.  The only way to defeat the desolation will be to unite not only the radiants, but the heralds.  This is somewhat alluded to in Edgedancer, but in WOR as well.  

The Heralds, like the knights radiant are broken people.  They are all special in that they have unique gifts or abilities, but alone they are either destructive or misguided - Jezrian is jaded, Nale is narrow-minded, Talenel has been driven crazy (with the other heralds knowing that his penchant for self-sacrifice may single-handedly prevent the desolations, Ash goes around destroying art, and Ishar seems bent on using Nale to kill off surge binders in a misguided attempt to disrupt the desolation.  

Normally, Ishar would be the person who keeps the Heralds pointed in the right direction, the recreance has changed things.  By breaking their oaths, they have become lost.  Since Honor is dead, he is unable to unite the Heralds, and Cultivation seems to be MIA.  In addition, cultivation seems scholarly to the point that, like Wyndle, she may be more interesting in create a garden of fancy chairs than uniting the Heralds against the desolation.

[Tesh]

I think it means the high princes. All I have to say at the moment.

Major WoR spoiler

Spoiler

Though they will have to find a replacement for Sadeas.

 

[Stormrunner1730]

On 3/5/2017 at 7:41 PM, Extesian said:

It could mean unite the sapient races of Roshar, unite the Parshendi, the humans and the Aimians.

I would generally agree with this.  I think he's referring to the sapient races of Roshar not under odium's influence.  In the context of the first two books, I think it references uniting Alethkar and the Radiants.  But ultimately I think it will mean uniting Roshar against Odium.

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Tesh said:

I think it means the high princes. All I have to say at the moment.

Major WoR spoiler

  Reveal hidden contents

Though they will have to find a replacement for Sadeas.

 

We are likely going to see a run for power within the Sadeas and the Roion's princedoms. I wouldn't be surprised if Amaram and Jakamav were to win their respective princedoms. 

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, maxal said:

We are likely going to see a run for power within the Sadeas and the Roion's princedoms. I wouldn't be surprised if Amaram and Jakamav were to win their respective princedoms. 

Ugh. "Highprince Amaram" 

That makes me angry just thinking about it. 

[Tesh]

41 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Ugh. "Highprince Amaram" 

That makes me angry just thinking about it. 

NOOOOOOOO! (I actually named my alarm clock Amaram. I hate them both a lot). But that would be baaaaad.

[Nathrangking]

He's too busy running away to make a "run" for the position. Besides the thought would send half of the sanderfans into a rage that would make a horde of Koloss jealous.

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Ugh. "Highprince Amaram" 

That makes me angry just thinking about it. 

Which is exactly why it is such a great plot idea. We need someone to hate more fully. Also here is what Brandon had to say on Highprinces, recently, on Reddit.

Quote

 

QUESTION

Not sure if this is entering RAFO territory, but are highprince candidates (that is, people who can be elevated to highprince status if the post is empty) only people from the 3^rd dahn? Or can a 4^th dahn also be elevated to highprince, for example?

BRANDON

Highprince is a tricky one, as the definition of "highprince" is a person who can convince others to call him by the title. I guess that's the same for all of them, but as highprinces tend to be near the top of the pecking order, it's more about military than anything else.

Gavilar was 4th dahn before becoming highprince, for example. His branch of the Kholin family wasn't considered a prime contender for the highprince throne--until he took it for himself.

QUESTION

His branch of the Kholin family? Does this imply there are other branches of the Kholin family? Meaning, there are other Kholins elsewhere?

BRANDON

Well, not as many as there once were...

 

 

Thus it is who becomes the next Highprince merely is the one guy able to convince enough others to refer to him as "Highprince" by either killing the competition (as I suspect Gavilar did) or by winning away their support. Someone like Amaram, who is highly popular, well-thought of and likely has strong support among Sadeas's other high ranked brightlord could definitely make a go for it.

Jakamav being the leader of the Roion army prior to loosing his Shards to Adolin would also be a strong candidate. If he can get enough support, he too could win it away.

26 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

He's too busy running away to make a "run" for the position. Besides the thought would send half of the sanderfans into a rage that would make a horde of Koloss jealous.

Why not? This is actually a rather interesting plot point. Amaram has nowhere to run away to, but if he becomes Highprince, then he is protected. He gets away with it: Dalinar will not prosecute him if he is Highprince. I wouldn't be surprised to see him pop back upon learning Sadeas has been killed. And then, who do you think he'll try to take it out on?

Adolin. Dalinar tried to harm him, so how best to cripple Dalinar than by harming Adolin? He could even ally himself to Ialai and get even more support. I say, it is a very interesting plot idea.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by maxal

[Nathrangking]

Ordinarily I would agree however his position as a son of honor may just keep him too tied up to do anything. I also don't think that he will be out for revenge against Dalinar based on all that we have seen from him I don't think that that is in his nature especially when he thought that what he was doing was for the greater good. In harming Dalinar his position would be significantly weakened and his ability to effect change will be damaged severely.

[Calderis]

@maxal I wasn't trying to disagree at all. 

For almost all the reasons you stated. 

He seems to genuinely regret losing Dalinar's friendship, so I don't know that he'll really be out for revenge, but we'll see. 

The main point though, is that he's a Son of Honor. When Gavilar died, they lost their position to influence change at the head of the Nation. A Highprince is as close as they can get without somehow getting Elhokar in, so they're going to seize the opportunity. 

[maxal]

11 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@maxal I wasn't trying to disagree at all. 

For almost all the reasons you stated. 

He seems to genuinely regret losing Dalinar's friendship, so I don't know that he'll really be out for revenge, but we'll see. 

The main point though, is that he's a Son of Honor. When Gavilar died, they lost their position to influence change at the head of the Nation. A Highprince is as close as they can get without somehow getting Elhokar in, so they're going to seize the opportunity. 

Neither was I, but I was looking for an excuse to post this Reddit conversation Brandon had this week. It was great! We learned getting to be named Highprince merely means you got the most support, it isn't really about your rank, though the highest ranked often end up getting it. We also learned Gavilar wasn't a contender, sitting at the 4th dahn... We also learned there were other branches of the Kholin family and well, not so much anymore. 

Back to Amaram, this confirms he could definitely be a contender, shall he wish too. I would say his friendship with Dalinar ended up when Dalinar promised to trial him for the murder of Kaladin's squad. To Amaram, having Dalinar side with a darkeye is probably a short-scaled tragedy, so I would say former friendship should not matter anymore.

I do agree Sons of Honor are likely to push for Amaram to win the princedom, even if it means eliminating the competition. However since we never heard of anyone else high ranked within the Sadeas's princedom besides Amaram, it seems likely he'll have little opposition.

[Contessa]

I don't have any real opinions about who will end up Highprince, but I do strongly believe that, should Amaram make a push for the Princedom, Dalinar would do his best to get in the way. 

[king of nowhere]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:26 PM, maxal said:

Why not? This is actually a rather interesting plot point. Amaram has nowhere to run away to, but if he becomes Highprince, then he is protected. He gets away with it: Dalinar will not prosecute him if he is Highprince. I wouldn't be surprised to see him pop back upon learning Sadeas has been killed. And then, who do you think he'll try to take it out on?

Adolin. Dalinar tried to harm him, so how best to cripple Dalinar than by harming Adolin? He could even ally himself to Ialai and get even more support. I say, it is a very interesting plot idea.

I don't know. Actually, it will be pretty interesting to see what amaram (and the sons of honor) will do. Their goal was to push for a desolation so that people would be united. Well, they did achieve part 1. Now comes part 2, "unite them".

And attacking dalinar would really go against all it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if now the sons of honor actually wanted to ally with dalinar and the radiants, much to the incredulity of the latter. I can definitely see amaram try to convince dalinar that all his actions so far made sense. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

Wasn't the goal of the Sons of Honor to bring back the Heralds? I'm not sure the radiants or uniting others was their goal. Unity was Gavilar's aim, who had some deep connections to the Sons, but not directly the organization's aims. At least that is not the impression received from Amaram. I could see Amaram making a play for highprince, but his main aim will probably have something to do with Taln (or whoever he is), whom he picked up at the end of WoR. However, I definetely feel that Amaram's role is far from over. Why? Hoid. It is rare for Hoid to single out individials that he doesn't like, and he made it a point to say that Amaram was much, much worse than Sadeas would ever be.

[Calderis]

42 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Wasn't the goal of the Sons of Honor to bring back the Heralds? I'm not sure the radiants or uniting others was their goal. Unity was Gavilar's aim, who had some deep connections to the Sons, but not directly the organization's aims. At least that is not the impression received from Amaram. I could see Amaram making a play for highprince, but his main aim will probably have something to do with Taln (or whoever he is), whom he picked up at the end of WoR. However, I definetely feel that Amaram's role is far from over. Why? Hoid. It is rare for Hoid to single out individials that he doesn't like, and he made it a point to say that Amaram was much, much worse than Sadeas would ever be.

My understanding was that the Sons goal was to bring about a Desolation in order to return the Heralds and in doing, restore Vorinism to its former power. 

We know Gavilar was one of them. His goal to unite would have been served well by a religious movement, as unity in belief us a strong binding force. 

I strongly believe that Amaram will make a play for Highprince. Changing the social structure to restore the Devotaries to power will require support from the upper level of the current system. 

[maxal]

6 hours ago, Contessa said:

I don't have any real opinions about who will end up Highprince, but I do strongly believe that, should Amaram make a push for the Princedom, Dalinar would do his best to get in the way. 

Dalinar has no jurisdiction into whom becomes the next Highprince for the Sadeas's princedom. What he thinks is irrelevant, it has no impact. He isn't the one making the decision.

6 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I don't know. Actually, it will be pretty interesting to see what amaram (and the sons of honor) will do. Their goal was to push for a desolation so that people would be united. Well, they did achieve part 1. Now comes part 2, "unite them".

And attacking dalinar would really go against all it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if now the sons of honor actually wanted to ally with dalinar and the radiants, much to the incredulity of the latter. I can definitely see amaram try to convince dalinar that all his actions so far made sense. 

Or try to manipulate Adolin into over-throwing his father on the pretense he has gone crazy... I really don't see enemy factions nor trying to use Adolin against Dalinar, one way or another.

[Contessa]

11 hours ago, maxal said:

Dalinar has no jurisdiction into whom becomes the next Highprince for the Sadeas's princedom. What he thinks is irrelevant, it has no impact. He isn't the one making the decision.

As a Radiant, I'm thinking Dalinar will gain even more influence, and possibly be able to keep some people from standing with Amaram. I know he doesn't have the power to keep Amaram from becoming a Highprince, but he might be able to take some of his support. 

[Calderis]

14 minutes ago, Contessa said:

As a Radiant, I'm thinking Dalinar will gain even more influence, and possibly be able to keep some people from standing with Amaram. I know he doesn't have the power to keep Amaram from becoming a Highprince, but he might be able to take some of his support. 

Considering the prominence of Vorinism, I think it far more likely that being a Radiant is going to reduce Dalinar's influence. 

The belief that the Radiants are traitors, and their re-emergence at the exact moment of the return of the Voidbringers everyone thought defeated isn't going to be seen as coincidence.