Steeldancer Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) I just got a bunch of books signed, and I got a WoB that hoid DOES have more unkeyed metalminds. It probably hasn't been processed yet, but do with that as you will Edited February 17, 2017 by The Flash 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 That's great! It ands more confirmation to the theory that Hoid wants to grab as much variety in the way of magic as he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 hour ago, The Flash said: I just got a bunch of books signed, and I got a WoB that hoid DOES have more unkeyed metalminds. It probably hasn't been processed yet, but do with that as you will Great work! I can't wait to hear more juicy bits from the signing, each signing is like archeologists finding a new Rosetta Stone! And this I love. Question is which metals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Cool, but would you mind posting about this in the event thread? We prefer that people do that rather in addition to/instead of posting singular threads like this one so that reports do not get lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Classic Hoid. I bet it's F.Chromium, for Fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: I bet it's F.Chromium, for Fortune. Hoid used his Hoidsense long before Southeners tech though. I take it to mean he has more of the southern medallions or he has more of those unsealed copperminds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Oversleep said: Hoid used his Hoidsense long before Southeners tech though. I take it to mean he has more of the southern medallions or he has more of those unsealed copperminds. Do we know that for sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Pagerunner said: Do we know that for sure? It's a reasonable assumption. He has been getting around since, presumably, soon after the Shattering, and Scadrial is a good number of years after it. He is likely to have utilized his Hoidsense to get there during the events of the first Mistborn trilogy (and then back during the second one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 But maybe the ancient Terrismen already know advanced Feruchemy's applications (like unkeyed Metalmind) and we know Hoid had contact with the Ancient Terrismen organization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Argent said: It's a reasonable assumption. He has been getting around since, presumably, soon after the Shattering, and Scadrial is a good number of years after it. He is likely to have utilized his Hoidsense to get there during the events of the first Mistborn trilogy (and then back during the second one). He definitely had his Hoidsense during the events of the first Mistborn trilogy. Quote PALADIN BREWER Why did Hoid not take both beads of lerasium? BRANDON SANDERSON Hoid has an innate ability to know where he needs to be and what he needs to do source That sounds exactly like Hoidsense to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Which is what I was saying - he must've had it prior to Era 1, otherwise he wouldn't have known to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Yeah, but let's make sure we clearly state our assumptions. My point was less about when Hoid had what, but when the medallion technology was discovered. Do we think that Sovereign was the first to come up with it? Or is it possible that he just rediscovered something from early in Scadrial's history? If harmonium is the eponymous Lost Metal, then maybe there are other aspects of the Metallic Arts that have also been lost to time, only slowly being rediscovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: Yeah, but let's make sure we clearly state our assumptions. My point was less about when Hoid had what, but when the medallion technology was discovered. Do we think that Sovereign was the first to come up with it? Or is it possible that he just rediscovered something from early in Scadrial's history? If harmonium is the eponymous Lost Metal, then maybe there are other aspects of the Metallic Arts that have also been lost to time, only slowly being rediscovered. Possibly, except don't forget that the metals required to make the medallions are difficult to make without the right technologies and the north was on the brink of steam technology before TFE-era, so they may not have had the metals required to make it happen. I think in the books somewhere it was said that the ancient Terris didn't know that much about the spiritual metals either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 "The lost metal" is atium--SoS at the governor's party says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, john203 said: "The lost metal" is atium--SoS at the governor's party says so. Too obvious honestly. It's been said so much, I would be disappointed if it turned out to be atium. Besides, WoB is that Harmony removed the pits where atium formed, so it feels unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Argent said: Which is what I was saying - he must've had it prior to Era 1, otherwise he wouldn't have known to get there. I don't think he necessarily had it during Era 1, he wasn't the only worldhopper there who knew big things were going down. That said, we know that Hoid 'now' uses feruchemy (but not necessarily chromium to know where to be: Quote MIKE COCKRUM Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go? BRANDON SANDERSON He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books. Quote QUESTION You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be. BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, and usually without knowing why. QUESTION Is Chromium involved in that? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using Chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes. So firstly I wonder if he's using a lerasium-chromium alloy or something similar in feruchemy rather than just chromium. But secondly, the timing is suspicious - there's a pretty strong argument he was using something magical to know to turn up in Elantris and the Emperor's Soul, and probably Warbreaker, which I think pre-date Era 1? Correct me if I'm wrong. To me that either means he got it from Scadrial way pre-Era 1, or he always had his Hoidsense from a different magical system but now he uses feruchemy instead/in addition. I favor the second option but don't see a good reason it can't be the first. They were all full feruchemists back then and with worldhoppers around, even if chromium or nicrosil were very hard to get back then, a worldhopper like Hoid could have brought it or showed them where to get it. We know Hoid visited the Terris back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 29 minutes ago, Extesian said: I don't think he necessarily had it during Era 1, he wasn't the only worldhopper there who knew big things were going down. That said, we know that Hoid 'now' uses feruchemy (but not necessarily chromium to know where to be: So firstly I wonder if he's using a lerasium-chromium alloy or something similar in feruchemy rather than just chromium. But secondly, the timing is suspicious - there's a pretty strong argument he was using something magical to know to turn up in Elantris and the Emperor's Soul, and probably Warbreaker, which I think pre-date Era 1? Correct me if I'm wrong. To me that either means he got it from Scadrial way pre-Era 1, or he always had his Hoidsense from a different magical system but now he uses feruchemy instead/in addition. I favor the second option but don't see a good reason it can't be the first. They were all full feruchemists back then and with worldhoppers around, even if chromium or nicrosil were very hard to get back then, a worldhopper like Hoid could have brought it or showed them where to get it. We know Hoid visited the Terris back then. Underlying mechanic makes it sound like he has access to the Cosmere mechanic which chromium feruchemy uses to manipulate luck, but not via feruchemy. Similarly to how lightweaving can be obtained by different magic systems, probably by using the same underlying mechanic, which is known on Roshar as the surge of illumination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said: Underlying mechanic makes it sound like he has access to the Cosmere mechanic which chromium feruchemy uses to manipulate luck, but not via feruchemy. Similarly to how lightweaving can be obtained by different magic systems, probably by using the same underlying mechanic, which is known on Roshar as the surge of illumination. Yeah that was always my impression until I noticed the WoB unequivocally saying he uses feruchemy. It doesn't mean he only uses it, and to be fair the WoB is from 2013 so it could have changed or it could be unreliable. But it certainly makes it sound clear he uses feruchemy. I'd like to see any WoBs that undermine it though as I always thought it would be a different magic system with a similar effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 47 minutes ago, Extesian said: Yeah that was always my impression until I noticed the WoB unequivocally saying he uses feruchemy. It doesn't mean he only uses it, and to be fair the WoB is from 2013 so it could have changed or it could be unreliable. But it certainly makes it sound clear he uses feruchemy. I'd like to see any WoBs that undermine it though as I always thought it would be a different magic system with a similar effect. Hmm. No, I think it's not feruchemy. The second WoB sounds like a back track on the first one which said he's using feruchemy. More like, what Brandon meant was that he uses the mechanics of feruchemy. Note that that WoB is paraphrased so it's entirely possible he did say something more along the lines of "he uses the mechanics of feruchemy" and the person just took that too mean he used feruchemy. In any case, both WoB are paraphrased so not as reliable as they could be. However, him not actually using feruchemy makes sense to me since it appears he's been using that power before he went to Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) I'm still convinced that Hoid is using a form of feruchemy or something similar that was around pre-shattering and we're going to find out of all the metallic arts, feruchemy was around before Ruin and Preservation created the planet. Edited February 20, 2017 by The Invested Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 34 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said: I'm still convinced that Hoid is using a form of feruchemy or something similar that was around pre-shattering and we're going to find out of all the metallic arts, feruchemy was around before Ruin and Preservation created the planet. It which case it wouldn't be a form of feruchemy, but more accurately a power which can achieve similar effects. Unless you're saying it operates on similar principles with storing attributes in materials as well, which is possible, but feels unlikely. This doesn't really mean much though because all the powers in the Cosmere use the same underlying mechanics. so duplicate or similar effects are very likely and possible. Really it comes down to how we're defining feruchemy. Personally I explain it as, "The manifestation of investiture resulting from investment from the shards Ruin and Preservation into the world of Scadrial." This manifests as the ability to store physical, cognitive or spiritual attributes within metals. Looking at it further though, the two main parts of the power, storing attributes and storing within metals, result from the intents of Ruin and Preservation, and the nature of Scadrial. Therefore, it wouldn't be very likely for something that similar to feruchemy to exist, and more likely that he's just manipulating one of the underlying mechanics it uses, which are many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I love how you're tearing apart the whole hoid sense thing, but I'm wondering if he could pull off compounding (which I don't think he can, if he needs unkeyed metal minds and he can't exactly BURN those, because then he won't have anything to store in!), and what kind of fun things he could be doing with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Flash said: I love how you're tearing apart the whole hoid sense thing, but I'm wondering if he could pull off compounding (which I don't think he can, if he needs unkeyed metal minds and he can't exactly BURN those, because then he won't have anything to store in!), and what kind of fun things he could be doing with that... He could probably compound them if he has the appropriate allomantic power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Spoolofwhool said: He could probably compound them if he has the appropriate allomantic power. He could. But he is not a fullborn feruchemist, otherwise he wouldn't need unkeyed metalminds. But he probably had a limited number of unkeyed metalminds... unless he has just one to store his identity so he could make more... but did the ancient terrismen even know about that ability? Because they can't make that now without hemalurgy or the bands of mourning. ANYWAY, excuse my musing, unless he has a way to store his identity to make more unkeyed metalminds, he can compound, but only until the metalminds he has are gone. At that point, he can no longer use that feruchemical ability, because he doesn't have that metalmind any more. Unless someone made a new one. Do you see what I mean, sort of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 35 minutes ago, The Flash said: He could. But he is not a fullborn feruchemist, otherwise he wouldn't need unkeyed metalminds. But he probably had a limited number of unkeyed metalminds... unless he has just one to store his identity so he could make more... but did the ancient terrismen even know about that ability? Because they can't make that now without hemalurgy or the bands of mourning. ANYWAY, excuse my musing, unless he has a way to store his identity to make more unkeyed metalminds, he can compound, but only until the metalminds he has are gone. At that point, he can no longer use that feruchemical ability, because he doesn't have that metalmind any more. Unless someone made a new one. Do you see what I mean, sort of? Yes. I know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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