Jofwu Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) /u/Topsyt on Reddit posted a great theory today about Cusicesh. And I think one of the comments, by /u/statemint, rounded the theory out really well. You can see the link for the original. Cusicesh Cusicesh is a massive (100 ft tall), strange spren (supposedly) who appears every day in the Kasitor Bay of Iri. He appears at the same time (7:46 am), splashes out illusory waves of water, rapidly flashes various human faces while facing the Origin, and then submerges. He is locally known as "Cusicesh the Protector", and many worship him. Those nearby, who witness Cusicesh's display, feel "drained" according to Axies: Quote Axies felt drained, as if something had been leeched from him. (TWoK Interlude I-5) Dai-gonarthis Dai-gonarthis, also called the Black Fisher, is only mentioned once (quote below). /u/Topsyt notes that his name (and alias) has a strong resemblance to Dagon, a pagan, Canaanite deity associated (traditionally) with fish. This follows the usual naming convention for suspected Unmade (see Moelach/Nergaoul and Moloch/Nergal). Paired with the cryptic introduction of Dai-gonarthis, there is little doubt he is an Unmade. Quote Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it! (TWoK Chapter 67 epigraph) Connection: the sea Note that both Cusicesh and Dai-gonarthis are related to the sea. Cusicesh "resides" in Kasitor Bay and splashes illusory waves of water. Dai-gonarthis is known as the Black Fisher and is perhaps inspired by a god that has connections to the sea. Connection: "draining" people Notice what the person in the Death Rattle above is saying. The speaker feels deep hurt and sorrow then calls to Dai-gonarthis. Next Dai-gonarthis "holds" that sorrow and "consumes" it. Might we say that he has "drained" the speaker's deep emotions? We have strong reason to suspect that the Unmade affect (or, perhaps, infect) the people within a certain area. Nergaoul causes the Thrill while Death Rattles are related to Moelach, and from what Taravangian says we have reason to believe that proximity to these matter. Could it be that Dai-gonarthis is an Unmade who siezes and consumes... emotions?... something from those who are nearby. This is very similar to Axies' experience with Cusicesh, who left feeling "as if something had been leeched from him". Two Interpretations /u/Topsyt argues that Cusicesh is Dai-gonarthis. There are a number of connections between the two, as we have seen. He further argues that Brandon likes to hide things in plain sight, and Cusicesh as an Unmade would be just that. There's also a notable conversation between Shallan and Pattern where Shallan (somewhat mistakenly) relates Cusicesh and Odium. A tease perhaps? /u/statemint takes another approach. The connections between the two are certainly present. But how do you explain Dai-gonarthis's... apparent weakness? Under the original theory, we can only guess. Maybe he has been weakened somehow. Maybe he is biding his time. Maybe he is having more influence than we realize. But perhaps there's an obvious answer. Cusicesh is known as "the Protector". Could it be that he is, indeed, protecting the Iriali from Dai-gonarthis? Could it be that Cusicesh is actually a spren who is holding Dai-gonarthis captive, consequently limiting the range and effect of the Unmade's influence to nearly nothing? Additional Speculation From the Wikipedia page, Dagon was sometimes viewed as a "protector". If Cusicesh is indeed Dai-gonarthis himself, this connection seems fitting. Furthermore, Dagon was also sometimes considered a judge of the dead. Perhaps this is related to the faces that Cusicesh displays? (this fits with either theory, I think) What do you guys think? See any other connections here? Anybody have additional insights on Dagon which might hint at more? If the "draining" feeling is associated with Dai-gonarthis, what do you think is going on there? Edited February 16, 2017 by jofwu 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezrien Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Sounds pretty solid. Maybe it's not weak at all. Maybe this emotional draining is more insidious that it appears. It reminds me of the Lord Ruler and his soothing stations. Maybe Cusicesh is manipulating people's emotions to keep certain spren from appearing -- perhaps Radiant bonding spren. Also, Axies's 'drained' feeling reminds me of the way Kaladin feels during the Weeping, which we now know is the result of stormlight deprivation. Maybe Cusicesh/Dai-Gonarthis is like a giant Larkin. If I were Odium, I'd love to have something like that in my Void army -- a creature that can drain the stormlight from a whole battallion of Radiants. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 41 minutes ago, Belzedar said: Also, Axies's 'drained' feeling reminds me of the way Kaladin feels during the Weeping, which we now know is the result of stormlight deprivation. Maybe Cusicesh/Dai-Gonarthis is like a giant Larkin. If I were Odium, I'd love to have something like that in my Void army -- a creature that can drain the stormlight from a whole battallion of Radiants. I thought that was Kaladin's seasonal affective disorder. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 43 minutes ago, Landis963 said: I thought that was Kaladin's seasonal affective disorder. Thats what I thought as well.. Its called Doucheitis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Landis963 said: I thought that was Kaladin's seasonal affective disorder. WoB is that it is, last i saw. I wonder what @Belzedar 's source is. I like the theory, im surprised ive never thought of this or seen it mentioned. Nice find @jofwu . Edited February 16, 2017 by Blightsong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 It's an interesting theory but I find the connections tenuous. Possible, certainly, but tenuous. I've always felt like the faces, the timeliness, and the whole looking towards the Origin bit are the key identifiers of Cusicesh, not the vague... feeling... of feeling drained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Perhaps Cusicesh is one of the unmade, and some hero long ago measured and recorded Cusicesh coming out of the water and performing its routine at 7:46 am a long time ago, and now it's stuck in this cycle; forever condemned to just the briefest glimpse of what it used to be. Locking an unmade into a relatively harmless moment. What a champ. I'd hate to see what happens when the recording is destroyed... 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccstat Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Interesting parallels, and a neat theory. I'm not really convinced, though. 8 hours ago, jofwu said: Notice what the person in the Death Rattle above is saying. The speaker feels deep hurt and sorrow then calls to Dai-gonarthis. Next Dai-gonarthis "holds" that sorrow and "consumes" it. Might we say that he has "drained" the speaker's deep emotions? This is where my I most disagree with the given interpretation. The "first A then B" timing doesn't make sense to me. In my opinion the death rattle is better read as a tortured plea for Dai-gonarthis to stop hurting the speaker. I suspect that the "Black Fisher" is feeding off of pain and sorrow by inducing those emotions and/or bringing their memory to the surface and "holding" them in place. 8 hours ago, jofwu said: But how do you explain Dai-gonarthis's... apparent weakness? I think I'm confused. What is the indication that Dai-gonarthis is weak? The death rattles happen in an apparently wide area, at least including Kharbranth and the Shattered Plains. If Dai-gonarthis is also influencing people in Iri, as one version of the theory posits, then that range would be incredible. My best guess at rephrasing the idea: "Dai-gonarthis is draining people of (some kind of) energy, therefore it must need that energy, therefore it must be weak." Is that what they are saying? If so, I would strongly disagree. A whitespine may derive sustenance when it eats some of your energy, but that doesn't make it intrinsically weak for needing to feed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezrien Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 2:21 PM, Landis963 said: I thought that was Kaladin's seasonal affective disorder. Huh, just saw the WoB on that. Colour me shocked. I was positive that was foreshadowing his relationship with stormlight. I guess this is the cosmere version of "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 On 17/2/2017 at 3:33 AM, ccstat said: I think I'm confused. What is the indication that Dai-gonarthis is weak? The death rattles happen in an apparently wide area, at least including Kharbranth and the Shattered Plains. If Dai-gonarthis is also influencing people in Iri, as one version of the theory posits, then that range would be incredible. I think you are mixing effects together...Dai.gonerthis isn't the Unmade related to Death Rattle, Moelatch is the Death Rattle's one. Returning to Cusicesh and his possibly "Unmade" status...this would be weird, it's a Spren struck there from years (at least), if He is an Unmade. It would be the easier Unmade to track down, I find strange that Spren's comunity, the Stormfather or the remaining order didn't place it in some kind of "isolation" (if its descruction isn't possible) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciridae Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, Yata said: I think you are mixing effects together...Dai.gonerthis isn't the Unmade related to Death Rattle, Moelatch is the Death Rattle's one. Returning to Cusicesh and his possibly "Unmade" status...this would be weird, it's a Spren struck there from years (at least), if He is an Unmade. It would be the easier Unmade to track down, I find strange that Spren's comunity, the Stormfather or the remaining order didn't place it in some kind of "isolation" (if its descruction isn't possible) If the above theory of measuring, recording and trapping Cusicesh is correct, and I think there is a very good chance it is, then you couldn't simply write down that the spren is somewhere out in the ocean where it can't hurt anyone. If you remember the two ardents recording flamespren, when writing down fake numbers for the measurements nothing happened and the spren wasn't locked. So I assume you would have to use the actual time and place of the appearance, maybe size and other defining characteristics of Cusicesh, to actually trap him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted February 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 9:33 PM, ccstat said: This is where my I most disagree with the given interpretation. The "first A then B" timing doesn't make sense to me. In my opinion the death rattle is better read as a tortured plea for Dai-gonarthis to stop hurting the speaker. I suspect that the "Black Fisher" is feeding off of pain and sorrow by inducing those emotions and/or bringing their memory to the surface and "holding" them in place. You seem to be assuming that the person giving the death rattle is, in that moment, experiencing the effects of Dai-gonarthis. That's not how I read it. Some of the death rattles work that way (e.g. "I'm dying, aren't I? Healer, why do you take my blood?"). But others don't (e.g. "The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me."). So that point does very much depend on how the death rattle is interpreted. On 2/16/2017 at 9:33 PM, ccstat said: I think I'm confused. What is the indication that Dai-gonarthis is weak? This goes back to the previous difference in interpretation. If Dai-gonarthis isn't directly affecting people on the other side of Roshar (currently), then all we can see is the "draining" effect described by Axies. This only affects people who are close by and observing Cusicesh, and it's fairly minor. Of course, the theory doesn't necessarily require that Dai-gonarthis be weak. The "weak" interpretation simply leads to the idea that perhaps he is imprisoned in some sense. It's entirely possible that he's at full strength and the weak affects in Iri can be explained some other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 You know, it's one of those funny things... I was being completely facetious when I wrote that Cusicesh might have been trapped, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. It would be just like Brandon to foreshadow something like that and hang it in front of us at the same time. I guess you could say that the spren of my idea got stuck in my head once i recorded it, but only because it's true lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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