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Movie Adaption of the Way of Kings


Nashan’Elin

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Although I still believe that a TV series would be best (Some subplots just need the room to breathe) I have come around to the idea that live-action would be possible, if not immediately feasible.  Why do I think this?  Meet Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets:

A few caveats out of the way: Yes, it's based off a graphic novel, which does much of the visual design work for them.  Yes, it's only one graphic novel as opposed to an entire (unfinished) book series.  However, where Valerian goes macro, Stormlight can go micro with the spren and the glowing spheres.  If they can bring a city of a thousand planets to the big screen, they can certainly bring a planet of a thousand Splinters to the small screen.  

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IMO, Sanderson's books would work best as serialized anime shows.

For Way of Kings, the problem with doing a live-action cgi fare is that properly representing the world would be jarring for new audiences.  Roshar's wildlife is incredibly alien, but a different kind of alien than other successful films.  Plus glowing people in live-action looks dumb.

Also, an anime medium would allow much more visual freedom for the artists.  One major way I could see this pay off is in how they depict shardbearers.  With Anime, they would be able to easily draw and frame the scene to make the shardplate more resplendent than the rest of the frame, while Hollywood would probably be more inclined to make it darker (see Shredder from TMNT).

I just got up, and I'm really tired, so sorry if my explanation sucks.  I'll try to put more here later.

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I don't think it could be adapted to movies very easily. I just don't think current movie equipment could do the series justice perhaps an Anime would be better, the fight scenes and Roshar would look exceptionally cool: something like avatar but with 10 seasons :D

Edited by AerionBFII
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I used to love Valerian as a child... It indeed is a prime example of how a highly fantasist world can be adapted to the big screen. 

40 minutes ago, Patrick Star said:

IMO, Sanderson's books would work best as serialized anime shows.

For Way of Kings, the problem with doing a live-action cgi fare is that properly representing the world would be jarring for new audiences.  Roshar's wildlife is incredibly alien, but a different kind of alien than other successful films.  Plus glowing people in live-action looks dumb.

Also, an anime medium would allow much more visual freedom for the artists.  One major way I could see this pay off is in how they depict shardbearers.  With Anime, they would be able to easily draw and frame the scene to make the shardplate more resplendent than the rest of the frame, while Hollywood would probably be more inclined to make it darker (see Shredder from TMNT).

I just got up, and I'm really tired, so sorry if my explanation sucks.  I'll try to put more here later.

I disagree with Anime because it is a niche market having little potential of a massive break-through onto the Western market. Brandon Sanderson himself has commented on a few occasions on the possibility of turning SA into an Anime and he was rather clear: there is no market for it, all of those having tried to make one have failed. 

Your average North-American adult will no rush to the movie theater to watch an Anime nor will they actively tune in to watch an Anime series. Market for animated features, be them television and/or movies, is almost exclusively geared towards children. Brandon himself agrees turning SA into an animated feature would turn the story into one oriented towards kids. 

I think we all do not want SA to be mellowed down to befit the Saturday morning 9Am slot.

Rosharian wildlife is fine, it would do great on the big screen, but I am incredibly worried about the casting. As unpopular as it may be, I do not agree with an exclusively Asian cast.

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48 minutes ago, maxal said:

Brandon himself agrees turning SA into an animated feature would turn the story into one oriented towards kids. 

I think we all do not want SA to be mellowed down to befit the Saturday morning 9Am slot.

Anime's not inherently a kid-oriented genre.  Ever heard of Berserk?  Fullmetal Alchemist?  Hunter x Hunter?  Cowboy Bebop?  I can keep listing them off.  It's just a production medium, doing an adaptation in anime doesn't mean it's going to be less mature.

And while I imagine the wildlife COULD be done well in live-action, I have zero faith that it WILL be done well.  Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't see any major studios faithfully adapting the source material.  Valerian's not really a good comparison because of how different the source material is.

As for the market, that's a bit iffy, and definitely the main hurdle as far as an animated adaptation would go.  But the maturity of the show is in no way a valid concern.  If anything, it might actually be more of a concern for live-action films.  Gotta secure that PG-13 rating (see: Total Recall, Robocop, etc)

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1 hour ago, Patrick Star said:

Anime's not inherently a kid-oriented genre.  Ever heard of Berserk?  Fullmetal Alchemist?  Hunter x Hunter?  Cowboy Bebop?  I can keep listing them off.  It's just a production medium, doing an adaptation in anime doesn't mean it's going to be less mature.

And while I imagine the wildlife COULD be done well in live-action, I have zero faith that it WILL be done well.  Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't see any major studios faithfully adapting the source material.  Valerian's not really a good comparison because of how different the source material is.

As for the market, that's a bit iffy, and definitely the main hurdle as far as an animated adaptation would go.  But the maturity of the show is in no way a valid concern.  If anything, it might actually be more of a concern for live-action films.  Gotta secure that PG-13 rating (see: Total Recall, Robocop, etc)

None of these have a significant enough public in North-America to commandeer one of the most desired time slot, hence Brandon's comment.

Well, I think we all are pessimistic with some aspects of the realization. I do not share your personal fear for how they would manage to depict the wildlife, but I have a personal fear the casting will not work at all with the Western public. I personally cannot envision Asian actors harboring blond and/or red hair together with lighteyes in any way which won't make them look like Korean pop-stars. So I guess, we both have our own personal sources of concern.

Valerian presents a highly imaginative world completed with foreign flora: portraying this world strikes to me as a similar size endeavor as portraying Roshar. Obviously, comparisons stop right here: Valerian is a comic book and, as a result, scenarist have way more leniency as to how they plot their story. They aren't bond by one single book and one given plot line they need to condense into a 2-3h feature movie which we all agree on is going to be difficult, no matter which compromises end up being made.

SA does not need the PG-13 rating to be successful: the market is greater for older audiences movies and making it more dark, more grim would alternatively make him look more serious. This is how you get those hard to get to grown-up audience: by giving them an adult-oriented entertainment they will book the babysitter to go see. These days, you need to offer more than just a decent story arc to secure both commercial and critical success: you need to turn your movie into a must-see experience. Visually speaking, SA has all the right elements, casting-wise, it will be a very hard sell and I am afraid compromises wouldn't work either.

 

Edited by maxal
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While anime isn't exclusively for kids, the majority of American adults don't get that or just aren't interested. So while I think SA anime is the best approach, I think it's the least likely because economics. 

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1 hour ago, Patrick Star said:

Anime's not inherently a kid-oriented genre.  Ever heard of Berserk?  Fullmetal Alchemist?  Hunter x Hunter?  Cowboy Bebop?  I can keep listing them off.  It's just a production medium, doing an adaptation in anime doesn't mean it's going to be less mature.

And while I imagine the wildlife COULD be done well in live-action, I have zero faith that it WILL be done well.  Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't see any major studios faithfully adapting the source material.  Valerian's not really a good comparison because of how different the source material is.

As for the market, that's a bit iffy, and definitely the main hurdle as far as an animated adaptation would go.  But the maturity of the show is in no way a valid concern.  If anything, it might actually be more of a concern for live-action films.  Gotta secure that PG-13 rating (see: Total Recall, Robocop, etc)

Maxal already said it, but there's basically no way an anime show or movie could get a mainstream adult following in the Western world.  In Japan and other Asian countries, sure, but that limits the market, and there, they're already saturated with huge numbers of anime shows of all varieties.  If Brandon wants to make any headway in the US, Canada, anywhere in Europe, it needs to be live-action, basically.

I would love to see someone with the same philosophies that contributed to the latest Star Wars films take the helm here.  Practical effects mixed with the right amount of CGI.  Rockbuds, the actual ground, all of that stuff, should be props, really there on the set with the actors.  Spren need to be CGI and added in, with ones like Syl that the characters are interacting with filled in with a prop on the set while they're acting, so that it seems natural.  If a studio is willing to put in even a slightly higher-than-average budget, with the right director, producer, and props team, I think it could be really amazing.  I suspect they would stick decently well to the source material for the appearance of that kind of stuff, simply because it really does make their job easier.

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1 hour ago, Jondesu said:

Maxal already said it, but there's basically no way an anime show or movie could get a mainstream adult following in the Western world.  In Japan and other Asian countries, sure, but that limits the market, and there, they're already saturated with huge numbers of anime shows of all varieties.  If Brandon wants to make any headway in the US, Canada, anywhere in Europe, it needs to be live-action, basically.

I would love to see someone with the same philosophies that contributed to the latest Star Wars films take the helm here.  Practical effects mixed with the right amount of CGI.  Rockbuds, the actual ground, all of that stuff, should be props, really there on the set with the actors.  Spren need to be CGI and added in, with ones like Syl that the characters are interacting with filled in with a prop on the set while they're acting, so that it seems natural.  If a studio is willing to put in even a slightly higher-than-average budget, with the right director, producer, and props team, I think it could be really amazing.  I suspect they would stick decently well to the source material for the appearance of that kind of stuff, simply because it really does make their job easier.

I think the Chasmfiend scenes should at least be partially animatronic, a la the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park.  But yes, the spren should be entirely CGI, as should everything to do with the highstorms (with the exception, of course, of the riddens, which can be simulated with a rain machine).  

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Just now, Landis963 said:

I think the Chasmfiend scenes should at least be partially animatronic, a la the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park.  But yes, the spren should be entirely CGI, as should everything to do with the highstorms (with the exception, of course, of the riddens, which can be simulated with a rain machine).  

I could see the chasmfiend as partially either animatronic or even just someone in a costume using some perspective techniques, and then of course CGI to make the limbs and facial features work properly.  There's no way the movement that's described could be done entirely with animatronics, even in miniature, but there would have to be something real for the actors to interact with (especially for something like Dalinar catching the claw, which should be done entirely with real props, perhaps enhanced slightly with CGI) to make it believable.

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Budget concerns seem to be one of the big hurdles. I wouldn't be too miffed if they chose to have effects be observed as they would be in world. For example, Pattern would be mostly visible, Wyndle would only show as a slight, dark dust trail that Lift kept talking at, and Syl would be completely invisible until she decided to show herself. It would be really satisfying to jump in surprise and melt in awe at the same time as Teft when he/we are finally introduced to Syl. That way, you could even cut the effects of Stormlight back to what your average non-surgebinder would see, and reserve your budget for truly unique first person experiences like Shallan's trip to Shadesmar, etc.

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I just watched a new Q&A/readings from I beluve Boston on YouTube last night and said when asked about the Animated Series for one of his books. Saracen stated he would love that but the interest is not there for an adult animated series. He went on to say that he would be interested in a stranger's things type show on Netflix for one of his books series. 

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4 hours ago, Darkness said:

Budget concerns seem to be one of the big hurdles. I wouldn't be too miffed if they chose to have effects be observed as they would be in world. For example, Pattern would be mostly visible, Wyndle would only show as a slight, dark dust trail that Lift kept talking at, and Syl would be completely invisible until she decided to show herself. It would be really satisfying to jump in surprise and melt in awe at the same time as Teft when he/we are finally introduced to Syl. That way, you could even cut the effects of Stormlight back to what your average non-surgebinder would see, and reserve your budget for truly unique first person experiences like Shallan's trip to Shadesmar, etc.

I agree in part, but with Syl, we can't just not see her until that scene since otherwise it'll seem that Kaladin is completely crazy, and there are a lot of scenes you have to see her in before she reveals herself to anyone else.  That said, having some scenes where an observer can't see Syl but we know she's there is definitely important to set the expectation that she's invisible to others unless she chooses.

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22 hours ago, Patrick Star said:

As for the market, that's a bit iffy, and definitely the main hurdle as far as an animated adaptation would go.  But the maturity of the show is in no way a valid concern.  If anything, it might actually be more of a concern for live-action films.  Gotta secure that PG-13 rating (see: Total Recall, Robocop, etc)

PG-13 would not be hard to do. LotR, Hobbit and Star Wars are all PG-13 or lower I believe (I live in Sweden so I am not completely sure).  They are all good movies, and they do not suffer that much from the age limit.

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20 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

PG-13 would not be hard to do. LotR, Hobbit and Star Wars are all PG-13 or lower I believe (I live in Sweden so I am not completely sure).  They are all good movies, and they do not suffer that much from the age limit.

Yeah. There's essentially no language (since all curses are in-world phrases, and generally tame regardless) or nudity (at least none that's in any way necessary).

Can't speak for the rest of the world, but without those obstacles you can squeeze in a LOT of violence before getting an R rating in America. And the fact that it's mostly fantasy violence helps as well. The most violent scenes involve Shardbearers mowing people down... using a magical sword that just burns out people's eyes and doesn't draw blood. I suppose if we followed a few bridge runs up close then it would be R-worthy... That gets pretty brutal. But its hardly necessary to show every person being gruesomely shot down and tramped.

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4 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

He went on to say that he would be interested in a stranger's things type show on Netflix for one of his books series. 

I think Netflix seems like the best route if they do a TV series instead of films. Sanderson fans would sign up for Netflix just to watch it, and potentially millions of other current subscribers might check it out since it wouldn't cost any extra.

I was reading through a recent Sanderson AMA he did on reddit, and someone asked about the state of the Cosmere movies. He said that even though a SA movie has been in the works by DMG longer, Mistborn isn't too far from passing it in the planning phases because it has a smaller scope of work that needs done in comparison.

A lot of video game companies have been doing the whole fantasy thing well recently too. The Witcher (which actually was a book series) was very well done. Elder Scrolls and Dark Souls are a couple other great series that do a good job at telling stories in a video game environment. I think both SA and Mistborn would work well in that setting.

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9 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I agree in part, but with Syl, we can't just not see her until that scene since otherwise it'll seem that Kaladin is completely crazy, and there are a lot of scenes you have to see her in before she reveals herself to anyone else.  That said, having some scenes where an observer can't see Syl but we know she's there is definitely important to set the expectation that she's invisible to others unless she chooses.

definitely agree. She would still be visible in world as a wind spren during the slave wagon scene, and maybe during battles they could have a little ribbon of wind or something.

of course, kaladin does seem a little crazy to some people since he's basically talking to a wind spren in their minds.

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I have just stumbled on this article. I think it summarizes pretty much my thoughts and my fears: 

http://gongsters.com/t/Entertainment/s/44d4ded9-84da-4427-9ad7-22b8c9b3c5e8

To be successful, SA will have to give the viewers enthralling character arcs, they will have to find way to make viewers care about those characters. If it is just CGI and special effects, then it will likely flop: it won't work unless they turn it into a highly character oriented movie. It will need a strong cast and good arcs inspired by the book. Kaladin will probably need to mop and whine much less and Shallan will need to tone down a bit, all doable, but it needs producers who believe in the product and who agree a special effect flick isn't going to be enough.

In other words, it can't be a movie about a world, it needs to be a movie about people within this world.

Edit: If anyone is interested, here is the Reddit thread where I picked it up. Reading the commentaries was fun. https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/5wijkp/why_do_so_many_fantasy_movies_flop_try_being/

Edited by maxal
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11 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

PG-13 would not be hard to do. LotR, Hobbit and Star Wars are all PG-13 or lower I believe (I live in Sweden so I am not completely sure).  They are all good movies, and they do not suffer that much from the age limit.

As far as PG-13, I'm mostly concerned about the scenes of Kaladin in Amaram's army and running bridges.  Those should be completely and utterly brutal, like Hacksaw Ridge level horror.  Otherwise, I don't think the stakes over that part of the story would be sufficiently high, especially due to Kaladin's PTSD.  The hypothetical movie should put us in his shoes, and to do that, it's gotta be horrific, and I don't know if that could be done in a PG-13 film.

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I think the biggest potential mistake would be what robbed Ender's Game (the movie) of its real emotional punch - you didn't get to really see Ender suffer or struggle. Yes, it was alluded to, and they spend a few minutes showing it. But a few minutes and an attempt or two at battle school was all we saw. 

In contrast, look at Inigo Montoya (The Princess Bride). You see him fail like 9-10 times. You know he really wants his goal and when he finally achieves it, it is even better than when Wesley succeeds at rescuing Buttercup. 

Ender's Game would have been better if they had spent more time showing Ender really struggling, failing and trying again, until his success is as sweet as Inigo saying his line, "you killed my father... prepare to die".

Shallow emotional development is the rule in Hollywood, not the exception, when it comes to SF/F and action. 

Ok, so what does this have to do with The Way of Kings? A lot of its emotional poignancy comes from Kaladin's struggle. He gets beaten down, suffers, fails, starved, beaten some more, and then enters Bridge 4, where it only gets worse. You can't skimp here, or you will just yawn when he succeeds at the end. 

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I think I'm part of the unpopular minority here but I can't help but think that the best way to approach the entire series as a whole is to stagger it via live-television, but when I say stagger I don't just mean divide it into cohesive parts. Brandon's storytelling is perfect by itself but we're at the stage where we don't even know who the true powerplayers in the entire story are.

I mean sure we have Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, etc. But everything is still so ambiguous. For this to work, the show may need to diverge (I mean, not plotwise of course) in a chronological sense with a clear understanding of what's going where and who's doing what with plenty of intermissions in between. I know I should have better examples handy but at the moment all I can think of is Quentin Tarantino's anachronistic style to movie-making (but not to that extent).

Prerequisites would be more than just two books to base on because really we don't know enough of anything yet.

Also CGI isn't really that much of an issue, I do agree with whoever said that casting is a really big issue. There is so much at stake with character portrayal here that I constantly end up feeling guilty for harboring massive expectations on anybody who dares try out for the roles.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Staccato said:

 

I think I'm part of the unpopular minority here but I can't help but think that the best way to approach the entire series as a whole is to stagger it via live-television, but when I say stagger I don't just mean divide it into cohesive parts. Brandon's storytelling is perfect by itself but we're at the stage where we don't even know who the true powerplayers in the entire story are.

 

That gave me an idea.  If Netflix or Amazon would pick this up and give it the proper budget and treatment, they could handle it like Marvel's Defenders.  That is, have a series about Kaladin, a series about Shallan, a series about Dalinar, and maybe one other, and then bring them all together when it's time.  They shouldn't be spread out too much, or could even all drop at the same time, but would be handled separately up until the storylines merge at the Shattered Plains, but they would all be part of the same overall narrative.  That has worked really well with Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist, and I'm eagerly awaiting The Defenders (though I confess I actually haven't watched Luke Cage at all and haven't finished Jessica Jones or season 2 of Daredevil).

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22 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

I think the biggest potential mistake would be what robbed Ender's Game (the movie) of its real emotional punch - you didn't get to really see Ender suffer or struggle. Yes, it was alluded to, and they spend a few minutes showing it. But a few minutes and an attempt or two at battle school was all we saw. 

In contrast, look at Inigo Montoya (The Princess Bride). You see him fail like 9-10 times. You know he really wants his goal and when he finally achieves it, it is even better than when Wesley succeeds at rescuing Buttercup. 

Ender's Game would have been better if they had spent more time showing Ender really struggling, failing and trying again, until his success is as sweet as Inigo saying his line, "you killed my father... prepare to die".

Shallow emotional development is the rule in Hollywood, not the exception, when it comes to SF/F and action. 

Ok, so what does this have to do with The Way of Kings? A lot of its emotional poignancy comes from Kaladin's struggle. He gets beaten down, suffers, fails, starved, beaten some more, and then enters Bridge 4, where it only gets worse. You can't skimp here, or you will just yawn when he succeeds at the end. 

In order to create a successful movie, I do agree emphasis will need to be made onto characters as opposed to world-building. The movie will need to succeed in having the viewers care for the characters and their faith, they will need to develop an emotional attachment for them and it won't happen if the plot is too deluded, trying to broach too many aspects of the story/Cosmere.

I do agree with the thread I put in link in my latest post, successful fantasy movies have all focus on simply story arcs and strong charismatic casting. Casting has always been one of my major source of worry as I fear they will prioritize ethnicity over acting capacities/talents. I'd rather the movie taking liberties when it comes to the casting then being forced to watch inexperienced non-fluent in English actors simply because they "look the part". The chosen actors will also need to be able to create a link with the audience: they don't need to be "bankable", but they need reach to the audience. For me, this should be the first casting priority, but I fear it won't be.

As for the story arc, I have given it some more thoughts and I have come to the conclusion the movie has more chances of being successful if it focuses on on setting as opposed to focusing on various ones. In other words, in order to reduce the CGI, the viewers confusion and to spend more time having them caring about the movie than finding it pretty, I think all of the story should be restrained to the Shattered Plains. They are awesome on their on, they would definitely make an amazing movie: nothing more is needed in terms of world-building. So yes, I would drop Karbranth because I fear it would scatter the story too heavily: movies need to have a tighter plot than books. You can't have one scene in one place, the other in other places, following two characters having no link in between them whatsoever. Movies follow their lead protagonists, period.

I thus suggest to move Shallan's story arc to... the Shattered Plains. Yep, you heard me. I would have Shallan meet up with Jasnah onto the Shattered Plains which means they wouldn't be isolated, they would interact with the remaining of the cast within the first movie. Jasnah can still die, but exit the ship wreck, the trek with the slavers and Tyn. I would however make it so Shallan still happens to "walk by" Kaladin, have them meet in the first movie, have them verbally spar in the first movie and have them perhaps start to perhaps think about perhaps feelings... Movies need romance, we can't wait for the second movie to play out the love triangle. Thus, Shallan would end up being engaged to Adolin within the first movie, so we would get the love triangle early on. How it plays out, well it depends on book 3, but the idea is to move re-mix the story arcs to make the movie more engaging.

Another change I would make is having Kaladin be a soldier, under Amaram, on the Shattered Plains and not on some distant border defense. I would have him kill the Shardbearer, on screen, in real-time (as opposed as through a flashback) and I would have him be demoted to bridge runner. This way, the viewers can care more for Kaladin's character is they see him going through all the phases as opposed to not really knowing what he is doing here. I would remove the wagon trek and selling: Kaladin is a Sadeas's soldier, when he "screws up", he is demoted within his existing army.

Exit thus the flashbacks, they aren't really needed, it is easy to have the character tell us their backstory: we don't need to see it.

I would have the movie start at the signing of the alliance with the Parshendi, the party, drunken Dalinar, the Parshendis, so the viewers would know what the heck is happening. Then, Szeth kills the king, Dalinar is hunch over his brother's dead body while Jasnahj reads the words he left. Six years later, you understand right away why they are on the Shattered Plains and why they are fighting.

I would remove the girth saddle story arc and most of Elhokar's character: we don't really need them in a movie. Six years later, Dalinar would not be the same man, he would have vision and from now on his story arc should remain about the same as in the book. I'd play Adolin more strongly as the "rebellious son" and I would contrast his "golden haired, blue eyed, paler skinned" to Kaladin's "darker everything" which would only cement the love triangle. Renarin would have a very superficial role within the first movie, but he would still get his Shards at the end.

A movie needs a good conclusion, so I'd have it end with Kaladin earning his freedom.

All interludes would be removed. 

Thoughts?

Edit:

A few additional precision on my scenario idea... Kaladin wouldn't spend the entire movie being a slave as he does in the book. Slaves have no agencies, no future and watching a hopeless main protagonist probably won't engage most viewers, not unless they get to feel the injustice surrounding Kaladin's predicament. Hence, as they did with the Gladiator movie, I would have Kaladin be a squad-leader within the first part of the movie. I would show him in all of his splendor and his former glory: the youngest squad-leader who spends his pay to "buy" young soldiers . Rumors have it they remind him of someone... Rumors have it his brother died on one of the runs... A few rumors here and there and you get the large lines of Kaladin's backstory: maybe he has one memory or two, simple things: him and his father learning the art of healing, his brother laughing, short, sweet.

Kaladin is Sadeas's soldier, so we see him on the Plateau run, with his men. We see him trying to craft the best strategies to avoid his men dying. Sometimes, we see one of those creatures, spren hovering around him. We have people mention sprens here and there, maybe someone mentions there are a lot of winsprens around.

We see his men from times to times, not much, but enough to feel devastated when they are slaughtered. 

In this scenario, Kaladin kills the Shardbearer and watches his men being killed, then he is put to slavery, at about mid-movie or shortly before. The interaction with Syl starts when he is a slave which coincide with Jasnah/Shallan's research actually explaining to us what is happening.

Shallan meets up Kaladin when he is a soldier, by happenstance, as it happens in the book. They cross paths a few times. We could have her merge with Tarah's character, so we get there is perhaps a thing between them, but then Kaladin becomes a slave and Shallan is later engaged to Adolin. We don't see the Shallan/Adolin dating in the first movie... more on that later.

So to keep on going, in this version of WoK, Dalinar and Sadeas are friends. It isn't enough being told they used to friends, we have to see them being friends on the screen in order to make the betrayal more powerful, more emotive, more enraging: in order to engage the viewers into the events, to make them care. Of course, in the prelude (the first 10 minutes in Kholinar), we see Sadeas do the decoy. He's on the good guys side even if slightly mean and dismissive. 

Dalinar and Sadeas do joint assaults from the start: this way you have Kaladin play a role within the Plateau fights prior to becoming a bridge runner. You get to show Dalinar/Adolin in action before Kaladin kills the Shardbearer so the viewer get to have an idea of what he accomplished.

Dalinar is torn, he wants to end the war, Sadeas wants to keep at it and there's the visions. The element of conflict is Adolin, the mouthy son who sounds non-supportive: I'd have him be the spoiled brat, have the viewers see him as the spoiled brat, have him confront Sadeas, lash out, have people thing he is wrong. His character works better when you pin him into one archetype only to see him subvert it by turning out to be the nice kid who was right all along. I would play the father/son conflict early in the movie, so it collapses better in the following movies, still depending on where they both go.

In the background, Jasnah and Shallan uncover some truths, the Desolation is looming, we get most of the lore through them. I am unsure on how to implement Shallan's backstory, but right before she is assassinated, Jasnah signs off the engagement of Shallan towards Adolin whom we have seen courting various women in the story. Have the viewers hate him perhaps but still wonder... didn't he save this girl?

All this to say, I meant to play with the viewers emotions: have them hate Sadeas/Amaram for Kaladin being made a slave, be puzzled as to whether or not Dalinar is a nice guy. Have them scream at injustice, have them be shocked for real when Sadeas betrays Dalinar and have them cheer when Kaladin saves him. Play with their expectations, built it up, but do not make it a few uncorrelated snap-shots, have characters interact even if they don't really in the first book, change this for the movie.

Re-Thoughts?

Edited by maxal
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15 hours ago, maxal said:

As for the story arc, I have given it some more thoughts and I have come to the conclusion the movie has more chances of being successful if it focuses on on setting as opposed to focusing on various ones. In other words, in order to reduce the CGI, the viewers confusion and to spend more time having them caring about the movie than finding it pretty, I think all of the story should be restrained to the Shattered Plains. They are awesome on their on, they would definitely make an amazing movie: nothing more is needed in terms of world-building. So yes, I would drop Karbranth because I fear it would scatter the story too heavily: movies need to have a tighter plot than books. You can't have one scene in one place, the other in other places, following two characters having no link in between them whatsoever. Movies follow their lead protagonists, period.

I thus suggest to move Shallan's story arc to... the Shattered Plains. Yep, you heard me. I would have Shallan meet up with Jasnah onto the Shattered Plains which means they wouldn't be isolated, they would interact with the remaining of the cast within the first movie. Jasnah can still die, but exit the ship wreck, the trek with the slavers and Tyn. I would however make it so Shallan still happens to "walk by" Kaladin, have them meet in the first movie, have them verbally spar in the first movie and have them perhaps start to perhaps think about perhaps feelings... Movies need romance, we can't wait for the second movie to play out the love triangle. Thus, Shallan would end up being engaged to Adolin within the first movie, so we would get the love triangle early on. How it plays out, well it depends on book 3, but the idea is to move re-mix the story arcs to make the movie more engaging.

I agree on the problems you see, but would almost argue for the opposite treatment: WoK + WoR in 3 movies!

I think it is important to see the conflict riddling Alethka for the wider world building, so I would keep the fighting outside of the shattered plains, but move it to after the assassination and the Greatshell hunt, which run straight into each other. That way we get the disjunction between the anguish after Gavilars death and the complacency on the Shattered plains 6 years later, and also get the demonstration of Shards at their best before seeing Kaladin beat the Shardbearer (which, yes, would happen all in one sequence). Most of the time in the slave wagons can then be skipped, rather having a shot of Kaladin in the wagons reaching the shattered plains should be enough. From there we kind of agree, in terms of Sadeas, Dalinar and Adolin, and the general story progression.

I think that Shallan's story should also happen more or less as is, but in a SECOND movie, released just after the second and going right up to the shattered plains thus providing a full arc from sheltered youth to independent young woman, providing some closure on Jasnah via Tyn and cutting into what needs to be covered in WoR. You could even use the original title planned for WoR, it being more appropriate here: The Book of Endless Pages. I would say realease it a little after WoK, because then you can have Kaladin's appearance, making sense after his being made a bodyguard on screen at the end of WoK.

WoR can then proceed as per the book, largely, as the third film after a normal gap between sequels.

I would say this probably wouldn't happen, as it means more movies... But we all saw what happened with the Hobbit...

Edited by Krandacth
Stupid autocorrect...
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