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Movie Adaption of the Way of Kings


Nashan’Elin

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Based on the similar thread about adapting Mistborn: TFE to a movie, I ask: if you were in charge of turning the Stormlight Archive into a movie, how would you go about doing it? What would receive more screentime? What, more importantly, would you have to get rid of?

Spoiler

Personally, I think most of Shallan's story would have to go. The focus of the first book is Kaladin, so the movie would be mostly Kaladin as well. Even the flashbacks, except for the most important ones (Tien's death, the Cenn one) would have to be removed/combined/summarized. The interludes, as well, would have to go. Except for the prologue and the last Szeth interlude. 

I would put focus on the worldbuilding, as it is harder to get that across in a movie than a book.

But that's just my thoughts. What are yours?

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1 hour ago, The Flash said:

I have always thought it would be better as a mini series. 

2 hours ago, MoS03 said:

I would never cram a story like this into a movie... In fact, I'd see it as a great crime to try to cram a story like this onto  a screen. It deserves the nuance and scale that a 1k+ page novel provides. 

I agree with both these points, but considering the recent announcements about DMG and Mistborn, I suspect the most likely scenario is a one-movie-per-book Cinematic Cosmere. So adapting WoK into one movie is worth talking about.

I think @Nashan'Elin has the right idea, cutting out the interludes, Shallan, and most of the flashbacks. If the movie is successful, the interludes can be produced as side-projects, like Edgedancer. (Or even a multimedia Expanded Cosmere, with tie-in comics and an animated series!) Shallan's story can start in WoR.  And we can probably do without the whole Lirin-Roshone odyssey. The story of Amaram's despicable backstabbery should get the message across just fine.

And Kaladin's whole Bridge 4 story might have to be compressed a little, to make room for Dalinar. I think it would be a mistake to under-emphasize Dalinar in all this. (And not just because he's my favourite character.) Of the three main characters in WoK, Dalinar is the least... myopic. He's much more in touch with the epic story that's about to unfold. Through the visions, and his quest to unite Alethkar, he's concerned with Roshar's future, and with its past. The other two, by no fault of their own, are too busy with their own lives to worry about the fate of the world. (at least until WoR.) In other words, Kaladin's story is Kaladin's story -- but Dalinar's story is the Stormlight Archive.

(And now I'm imagining Stormlight: The Animated Series.) 

Edited by Belzedar
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Couldn't do it justice in a movie based  on the time needed.  And I disagree strongly with the idea of a Animated series,  I am like most of the readers of these wonderful books an adult, and have no desire what so ever to watch cartoons.  I think the best bet would be  a tv series if it was done by Netflix or HBO and enough money put into the budget in order to get the special effects right. Anyway that is my two cents.

Edited by Humpty
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While I do agree a TV series works better for books of this length, I think you could still make a decent movie of the book in 2-3 hours. You just have to watch it with the understanding that the movie isn't meant to retell the entire story in the book, it's just meant to bring the story to life. 

I agree a lot with the first post. You'd have to cut out basically every interlude. I would reference Shallan by name and maybe even show her character a little just so the audience recognizes her in WoR. But you can get around telling the story of Shallan trying to steal the Soulcaster and save a lot of time. The movie would probably summarize her part in WoK as "this is Jasnah's ward, she'll have a role later." 

I would start the movie with the prologue to show Gavilar's assassination, then I'd jump into the scene where Kaladin is facing down a Shardbearer on the battlefield. Advance his time as a slave quickly to where he's being moved to Bridge 4. A lot of the movie should focus on Kaladin and Bridge Four. Show a few bridge runs, show Dalinar, Adolin, and Sadeas fighting on the chasms, give Dalinar's visions some screen time, introduce the audience to Stormlight, etc. Then you end the movie with the infamous scene at The Tower. 

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I like that plot, @Andy92, but I would throw in one or two Szeth interludes to show what's happening to him, at points where time jumps forward in the main plot. Probably the interlude where he gets sent by the small-time drug lord and picked up by Taravangian's man, then the one where he attacks the Veden king. That then leaves the Scene with him and Taravangian as a post-credits moment, that can have the opposite impact as in the books when Shallan meets him in WoK part two: Shallan (which blurs into WoR, ending with her killing Tyn and entering the Shattered Plains. And maybe having included other interludes that didn't make it into WoK part one?).

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This movie will never happen unless they have a lead female character: they greatly increased Arwen and Eowyn's roles within LoTR simply because they felt the movies needed stronger female characters. They created Tauriel for the Hobbit movies as the original material lacked a female character.

You just don't make a fantasy movie, in the 21st century without including at least one major female character.

In this spirit, cutting out Shallan's story arc is about the worst decision ever. I personally feel the opposite should be done: increase her and Jasnah's role into the story by borrowing the early story arcs of WoR. Condensed the event-less parts of their story and move it fast forward towards the most interesting ones. I would personally have Shallan's story end with the shipwreck in order to create a cliffhanger. We also need to be introduced to Taravangian which happens through Jasnah.

This being said, in order to make more room into the movie, I would cut down Kaladin's bridge 4 scenes. Yes, this is his book, but once they make movies, it won't be "Kaladin's movie", it will be "Stormlight Archive's first movie". Hence it won't exclusively focus on the one character: it will go larger. A lot of Kaladin's story arc in WoK is about him wandering around, thinking to himself and chatting with Bridge 4: these would need to be condensed to a few key relevant scenes. The flashbacks would probably have to go, but maybe there are ways to keep part of them.

Szeth would be this mysterious dangerous assassin, but he wouldn't have a focus or anything. 

Dalinar's story arc would need to happen, but we would see Kaladin's story arc interact with his much quicker. Adolin, as a character, would probably have to go (as much as it saddens me, but at least I would avoid seeing him being cast) or remain in the background unless the producers end up really liking his character in the books and decide to do the opposite. It happens scenarists will push forward minor characters such as Theon in GoT.

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11 hours ago, Humpty said:

Couldn't do it justice in a movie based  on the time needed.  And I disagree strongly with the idea of a Animated series,  I am like most of the readers of these wonderful books an adult, and have no desire what so ever to watch cartoons.  I think the best bet would be  a tv series if it was done by Netflix or HBO and enough money put into the budget in order to get the special effects right. Anyway that is my two cents.

Just because it is animated doesn't make it a childish cartoon. There are plenty of great animated series, which can be enjoyed by adults and kids alike (Star Wars Rebels). 

The problem with an animated series, however, is that it could be hard to market. Either you turn it into a show targeted at kids, but still with some darker content. I am not fond of this idea (it is one of the bad things with stuff like Clone Wars). 

The other thing you can do is target it at adults, but I think that a lot of adults doesn't want to watch animated, because they think it's for kids.

Making an anime of it could be possible though, and that market is not that small. It could be a hit in Japan or China. 

Personally, I would prefer a Game of Thrones style TV-adaption, because I like seeing real actors running around. A cinematic movie would be hard to do though.

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I just don't think you have to spend a lot of time on Shallan trying to steal the Soulcaster. That whole situation ends up resolving itself because Shallan is just so persistent. But you do raise a valid point about needing a female lead. You don't see much of that in the Kaladin and Dalinar parts of the book. 

I'm not saying Shallan should be eliminated from the movie, but her story takes a huge break in WoK. You don't even read about her much in the middle acts of the book. She should have a part in the movie, I'm just not a fan of making her screen time a 50/50 split with what's going on at the Shattered Plains. 

I think they should probably stay away from a lot of Kaladin's flashback scenes for the sake of time. I would like to see them do something at The Tower similar to how the book tells the story of Tien's death at that moment. I'm imagining a scene where Kaladin basically sees his life flash before his eyes. The audience would see short images of Kaladin holding Tien's body on the battlefield, Amaram ordering the execution of Kaladin's soldiers, and Kaladin being thrown into a slave wagon. When he snaps out of the vision, he infuses himself with Stormlight and charges the Parshendi army. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

Just because it is animated doesn't make it a childish cartoon. There are plenty of great animated series, which can be enjoyed by adults and kids alike (Star Wars Rebels). 

The problem with an animated series, however, is that it could be hard to market. Either you turn it into a show targeted at kids, but still with some darker content. I am not fond of this idea (it is one of the bad things with stuff like Clone Wars). 

The other thing you can do is target it at adults, but I think that a lot of adults doesn't want to watch animated, because they think it's for kids.

Making an anime of it could be possible though, and that market is not that small. It could be a hit in Japan or China. 

Personally, I would prefer a Game of Thrones style TV-adaption, because I like seeing real actors running around. A cinematic movie would be hard to do though.

Star Wars Rebel is aimed at children and is being aired on children oriented networks which does not mean adults cannot watch/enjoy it, but it does mean this product is not geared towards a mature audience.

I am personally against any adaptation which would be solely geared towards the Asian market. 

I too would prefer a GoT style TV adaptation.

 

 

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1 hour ago, maxal said:

Star Wars Rebel is aimed at children and is being aired on children oriented networks which does not mean adults cannot watch/enjoy it, but it does mean this product is not geared towards a mature audience.

I am personally against any adaptation which would be solely geared towards the Asian market. 

I too would prefer a GoT style TV adaptation.

 

 

True, about Rebels. If you look at Clone Wars however, that had some more adult-themed stuff (Boba as a child almost being forced to shoot a captive in the head, for example). But my point was to show that things aimed at kids can appeal to adults as well, and be enjoyable in their eyes.

An anime would not be geared solely towards an asian market. There are animes which have done well in the west as well. But I see your point, and I am not very keen on an anime either. Dont like the style very much. 

Im 100% with you on GoT-style TV-show.

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What if we drop Kharbranth, and bring Shallan and Jasnah right to the Shattered Plains? The crux of Jasnah's research turns out to be the parshmen-voidbringers theory, so maybe she's set up her research base in the Kholin warcamp, trying to get as close as possible to the Parshendi. And Shallan's her artsy apprentice, who seems to be hiding something. 

You could actually keep the soulcaster plot more-or-less intact (albeit much compressed). But by moving it to the Plains, and interweaving it with the other storylines, you'd make it much more fun. It'll feel like it's just part of the story, rather than some unrelated side-story, set 500 miles away. Jasnah's atheism could play against Dalinar's whole "God is talking to me" thing. 

You'd lose Taravangian, but that's a small price to pay for redeeming a main character. I'm sure we can work him in somewhere else.

20 hours ago, Humpty said:

I think the best bet would be  a tv series if it was done by Netflix or HBO and enough money put into the budget in order to get the special effects right.

9 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

Personally, I would prefer a Game of Thrones style TV-adaption,

9 hours ago, maxal said:

I too would prefer a GoT style TV adaptation.

7 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

Im 100% with you on GoT-style TV-show.

Yes, I think most of us can agree that a TV drama is the best way to faithfully adapt the story. And it's no surprise that everyone's jumping to Game of Thrones as the model. But as @Humpty points out, it would take a ton of money. The CGI alone would put it well beyond GoTGoT has a gargantuan budget, and they still have to skimp on CGI. They save the flashy monsters for the season finales, and keep the dragons hidden more often than not. But that kind of computer-generated conservatism won't fly on Roshar.

Every time someone summons a sharblade, that's CGI. Shardplate? Probably CGI. Spheres full of stormlight? CGI. Highstorms. Chasmfiends, axehounds, whitespines, skyeels, Dalinar's giant bridges, Parshendi chasm-jumpers, rockbuds, grass that moves, every storming cremling on the whole storming planet, and chulls. Somebody please, think of the chulls!

(That being said, I would love to see chulls as giant practical animatronics, and Parshendi as Westmore-style make-up effects. But I wouldn't bet on it.)

And then, to top it all off, there are spren everywhere. Sure, Syl can be an actress with some (fancy, and therefore expensive) compositing, but every other spren will have to be CG. And you can't do Roshar without the spren. Just wouldn't be right.

This is not Game of Thrones. It's more like Star Wars.  

And so, with that said, I think there are only two ways to get the imagery of the books to work on screen: A three-hour movie with a budget of $250 million, or an animated series. 

Much as I love the art style of those Star Wars cartoons (and the Genndy Tartakovsky micro-series that inspired them), I agree that it's a little too cartoonish for Stormlight. For a better stylistic touchstone, I'd recommend Legend of Korra. The art's beautiful, and the proportions are realistic enough that even stick-in-the-mud "grown-ups" should be able to watch it without compromising their adult dignity. It's western animation, with a hefty does of anime influence -- which strikes me as a good match for Brandon's sensibilities, and for Stormlight in particular. The harmonious blending of East and West.

And here's the best benefit of animation. The characters could be designed exactly as Brandon imagines them -- right down to their skin tones and epicanthic folds. Ergo, we would sidestep the otherwise inevitable whitewashing controversy.

Edited by Belzedar
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Well, the Szeth prologue is a great opening on screen. I think. If done properly.

However, the budget. Stormlight TV series would need a ton of money. And a movie? A storm-TON of money as well. I don't want to see a Stormlight movie if it ends up looking like the Conan the Barbarian movies.

Edited by Rob Lucci
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12 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

I don't think anyone would go to a theater to see a 5 hour movie...I know enough casual fans who complain about the length of LOTR. 

Considers people who binge watch the original 8 harry potter movies in one day... But yea not all people like long movies. The fact is that LoTR and Stormlight are big books. It is natural for them to be big movies.

1 hour ago, SnopyDogy said:

Why settle for a three hour move? Why not go for the 5 hour epic with an intermission?

With 5 hours you could fit in a lot more story.

Well, Return of the King is nearly 4 hours according to the DVD tin, so there is some precedent for long theater movies. Do you think they could make it work in 4 hours?

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The 4 hour version of Return of the King wasn't the theatrical release. That's the extended cut edition. The theatrical release was still long though.

The main problem is that one Stormlight book has the same page count roughly as LOTR in its entirety. You could easily make a trilogy of movies out of one Stormlight book. I'm kind of a fan of making two movies for each book (similar to how Harry Potter did one book like that, Hunger Games did one).

You have to decide whether you want multiple movies per book or if you just want each movie to summarize the main parts of the book in one sitting. You're just not going to see theaters accept 4-5 hour movies. 2-3 is what you'll get. 

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I think we have to realize a Way of Kings movie wouldn't precisely follow the Way of Kings book in an exact manner. Books and scenarios are two very different products and what may take hundred of pages to come to life in a book may be mere minutes in a movie or not required at all.

LoTR books may be shorter than one SA book, but a lot more happens during this shorter time span. I absolutely adore WoK, but I have to admit it's overall arching story arc isn't as extensive as one LoTR overarching story might be. Basically, WoK is about one slave managing to free his fellow slaves through a dice of pure luck while developing super-natural powers we aren't entirely sure of. In the background, you have the political story arc happening where a kingdom needs to unite to face the massive event which is the Desolation. The problem is nobody actually believes it is happening. In comparison, LoTr featured on little hobbits needing to bring the ring out of the Shire and into Rivendell while being pursued by the black riders. Once they reached Rivendell, we are only half-way to the end as they still need to form the fellowship, after a long council, and make their way to Mordor which implies them getting lost on the mountains, then in the Moria only to fall into the Lothlorien and the for them to ultimately split up. Quite frankly, there might be less pages in the Fellowship of the Ring then there are to WoK, but a lot more is happening. The difference is Tolkien didn't do into character's introspection: he only wrote what was happening while WoK spends a LOT of time wandering into Kaladin/Dalinar/Shallan's minds. In a movie, all of those scenes would be removed and/or condensed into one or two key scenes which means most of the action could potentially fit within a 2h-2h30 movie.

Going longer, for a first movie of an non-established franchise with no media buzz with a majorly foreign cast, would be pure suicide. No way any studios would be this bold, hence a shorter movie focusing on the key elements and probably taking many short-cuts into the story seems more reasonable. It won't be a retelling of the book, it will be an adaptation, but as long as we all agree about what it is, then they might pull out something decent, might,

22 hours ago, Belzedar said:

Much as I love the art style of those Star Wars cartoons (and the Genndy Tartakovsky micro-series that inspired them), I agree that it's a little too cartoonish for Stormlight. For a better stylistic touchstone, I'd recommend Legend of Korra. The art's beautiful, and the proportions are realistic enough that even stick-in-the-mud "grown-ups" should be able to watch it without compromising their adult dignity. It's western animation, with a hefty does of anime influence -- which strikes me as a good match for Brandon's sensibilities, and for Stormlight in particular. The harmonious blending of East and West.

And here's the best benefit of animation. The characters could be designed exactly as Brandon imagines them -- right down to their skin tones and epicanthic folds. Ergo, we would sidestep the otherwise inevitable whitewashing controversy.

See, to me this is one of the problems. Several grown-ups are still using standard television services meaning they are paying for cable TV which means, unless they have children, they won't purposefully subscribe to the Cartoon Network. Even they do have it, they are likely not watching it. Also, among those who aren't subscribing to the standard cable TV, those who are relying on Netflix and/or illegal streaming to they get their favorite shows, aren't likely to even be aware of SA the animated series. It might be great, it might be amazing, but if it is animated it likely won't get to the targeted public because the targeted public will never even know it even exists. Even if they did, most of them won't even watch it because it is animated. 

This is the problem and it also is one Brandon himself have acknowledged: the market for adult-oriented animated TV series is extremely limited within the Western world. Legend of Korra might have an Internet buzz, but in all honesty, if I start quizzing my work colleagues on it, you can be sure 99% of them have never even heard of it. I only heard of it because I am an Internet dweller which, trust me, most people within my age range aren't. So even if you agree I am an old toothless dinosaur, well the truth is, I am not that old. I am old here, on the Internet, but in real-life, nope, not so much. 

All this to say, it isn't they wouldn't be able to craft a decent worth to watch adult-oriented product, the problem is they have literally no means to market it to their audience combined to the fact their audience isn't looking for this kind of entertainment product to begin with. There might have been adults who enjoyed the Legend of Korra or any similar products, but they remain a minority and this minority isn't large enough to warrant any studio to take the risk to invest so much money into. 

Hence, live-actions remains, to me at least, the most viable option and while I agree the budget would be enormous, today, I still think it might be acceptable tomorrow, tomorrow being in 5 or 10 years.

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Lots of good points here so far.

Everyone seems stuck on the idea that it has to be one movie. Hollywood turned The Hobbit into three movies. Stormlight books can definitely be broken up into two movies each. I don't see why they wouldn't be. One movie per book risks stripping too much of what makes them good, and there's definitely enough engaging content in each book to fill two movies. That gives us a good 5 hours (plus or minus) to work with.

Movie 1:

Quote

Act 1 (~45 minutes)

1. Begin with the Szeth prologue. Great action, strong hook, a tease of the magic, and it sets the immediate context of the war against the Parshendi.

2. Then we jump to a few quick flashes of Kaladin in battle, maybe catch a glimpse of the shardbearer. And then we're in the slave wagon, Kaladin having been dreaming or reminiscing. Just a quick scene in the wagons, which establishes that Kaladin is a warrior turned slave. A glimpse of Syl. Then the next moment we're cresting a hill and there's the Shattered Plains.

3. We skip down to Sadeas's camp. Kaladin has just been sold as a bridgeman. We find out what that means when the horns go off.

4. Shallan arrives in Kharbranth. Quick scene at the docks, establishing who she is and why she's there. Then we jump to her arrival in the Conclave, where she meets Jasnah and sees her use the soulcaster. Jasnah turns her down.

5. Go to Dalinar and company on the chasmfiend hunt. Establish the state of Alethi politics and Dalinar's visions. Wrap up with the chasmfiend fight.

6. Back to Kaladin. He's in a dark place. Goes to kill himself, but Syl stops him. He talks to Gaz and we see him trying to start leading Bridge 4.

7. Shallan. Details of this scene can go different ways, but the end result is Shallan meets Kabsal and gets accepted by Jasnah.

8. Draw from Balat's interlude: we get a very brief glance of him with his axehound outside the Davar manor. He gets called inside by his fiance. We see the spanreed. As the pen writes, we realize Shallan intends to steal the soulcaster.

Act 2 (~1 hour 20 minutes)

9. Szeth gets passed on.

10. Kaladin training, talking with Syl. Another bridge run where he can show his stuff. Afterwards he's trying to work with Rock and Teft.

11. Dalinar and Adolin look into the "assassination attempt". Asks Elhokar to end the war, then to make him Highprince of War.

12. Shallan in their apartments. Jasnah leaves and Shallan does something to work out how to steal the soulcaster. She discovers Jasnah's notes and wonders what the woman is researching. Kabsal arrives to say hello and cuts her short.

13. Kaladin has collected knobweed sap with the help of Rock and Teft. We see them talking as they collect the sap at night.

14. Dalinar has a vision.

15. Shallan in the Pallanaeum trying to work out what Jasnah is researching. When she returns Taravangian is there. She sketches him with the cryptics.

16. Kaladin flashback? (involving his family?) Kaladin wakes and goes on shopping trip. Interaction with Syl. Bridge run horns.

17. Dalinar. The feast where Sadeas is named Highprince of Information. Meet Navani.

18. Shallan and Jasnah have their outing. Shallan steals the soulcaster.

19. Bridge run. Kaladin is getting more respect. When they return, Rock whips up a stew. Bridge 4 belongs to Kaladin.

20. Gallery of Maps scene. Dalinar and Adolin argue.

21. Kaladin flashback? (Involving Laral and the surgeon vs. warrior question?) Kaladin interacting with Bridge 4.

22. Dalinar digging latrines, thinking. Spanreed from Jasnah, where Shallan sketches the chasmfiend "voidbringer".

Act 3 (25 minutes)

23. Shallan is leaving the next day, but still curious what Jasnah is up to. They talk about it briefly. Shallan draws Kabsal, sees the cryptics again, and freaks out. Runs to her room, soulcasts, cuts herself, and passes out.

24. Bridge 4 tries side carry on a bridge run. This is a climactic action scene. Kaladin gets blamed and beat.

25. Shallan wakes. Interacts with Jasnah and Kabsal. Gets poisoned. Jasnah discovers soulcaster. Shallan passes out.

26. Kaladin wakes to find himself strung up for the highstorm. Stormwall hits and he fights with Syl to hang on.

27. Szeth gets recruited to assassinate people.

28. Dalinar announces he will abdicate.

29. Shallan wakes in the hospital and gets chewed out by Jasnah. Maybe she does a sketch and there's cryptics in it, so that her story ends on a creepy note rather than a "well sucks to be her" note.

30. Bridge 4 comes out after the highstorm and Kaladin is alive. End with Teft muttering something about Radiants returned.

Roll credits. Total time: 2 hours 30 minutes

Movie 2:

Quote

Don't have time to be as detailed, but the main story arcs are...

Kaladin: Bridge 4 ends up in the chasms. They decide early on to train under Kaladin and escape. Clear hints along the way that Kaladin is gaining powers that he doesn't understand. Finale with saving Dalinar.

Shallan: Early on she figures out Jasnah's secret, proves she is a surgebinder, and convinces Jasnah to take her back on. She recovers and they head for the Shattered Plains. Shallan begins to test her powers and study Pattern. In the finale, the ship is attacked, Jasnah is murdered, and Shallan sinks the ship.

Dalinar: Has a vision early on and Navani realizes he's speaking Dawnchant, which delays the abdication. They begin doing joint assualts. Things are looking up. End with Sadeas's betrayal, and the rest of the TWoK finale. The final vision is the last major scene.

Szeth: Early on (beginning?) we see him assassinate the king of Jah Keved. Towards the end we see him come to Kharbranth and get the Taravangian reveal.

Notes:

1. Skip the Prelude. The key points of information gathered there can come from other discussions and Dalinar's visions.

2. Scrap MOST of the interludes and flashbacks. Szeth is the notable exception.

3. Sprinkle short glimpses of battle with Parshendi before/after Dalinar and

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1 hour ago, jofwu said:

1. Skip the Prelude. The key points of information gathered there can come from other discussions and Dalinar's visions.

They could also do that as a small teaser scene, somewhat like "The Night of the Doctor" mini-episode did for the Doctor Who 50th Anniversary Special.

1 hour ago, jofwu said:

2. Scrap MOST of the interludes and flashbacks. Szeth is the notable exception.

I think I-1 could stay, if only for the Demoux & Galladon cameo. Granted, it wouldn't have as much impact if Mistborn/Elantris haven't been made at the time so... up for debate I guess?

Point 3 seems like it got cut off, but if you mean more Dalinar vision story and less mindless battle scenes, then i agree with you

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4 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Point 3 seems like it got cut off, but if you mean more Dalinar vision story and less mindless battle scenes, then i agree with you

Ah, whoops. Basically yes. Should read:

3. Sprinkle short glimpses of battle with Parshendi before/after Dalinar and during bridge runs.

Basically, just battle scenes sprinkled in wherever it fits alongside the primary narratives.

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