"Kale"adin Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) While rereading Edgedancer, I noticed Darkness said this while talking to one of his sky breakers. Quote “there is a small chance that what comes next will allow the Voidbringers to again make the jump between worlds.” Excerpt From: Sanderson, Brandon. “Arcanum Unbounded: The Cosmere Collection.” Tom Doherty Associates. iBooks Could it be possible that the voidbringers are actually the Odium spren and not the Parshendi? I know it doesn't make a lot of sense but it would be interesting if true. EDIT: My reasoning for this is that as far as we know the parshmen never left Roshar after the most recent desolation, yet Nale talks as if they did. Also, wouldn't Nale recognize the parshmen or were the true voidbringer forms so different from dull form that he couldn't see the similarities. Edited January 23, 2017 by "Kale"adin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Yeah, that's the approach I take, as well. The Odiumspren are basically controlling the Parshendi, and that terminology allows for Thunderclasts to be Odiumspren who have inhabited rock bodies, and possibly chasmfiends could even be in symbiosis with an Odiumspren to be called a Voidbringer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchy Savant Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I was under the impression that what ever the voidspren bond with become a different form of voidbringer. And @Pagerunner I like that chasm fiend thought. In WoK Jasnah and Shallan find a drawing of something that looks like a Chasm fiend that is labeled as Voidbringer. Perhaps that is what Voidbinding is? Forcing certain things to undergo different transformations with the bonding of a void spren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Just now, Itchy Savant said: I was under the impression that what ever the voidspren bond with become a different form of voidbringer. And @Pagerunner I like that chasm fiend thought. In WoK Jasnah and Shallan find a drawing of something that looks like a Chasm fiend that is labeled as Voidbringer. Perhaps that is what Voidbinding is? Forcing certain things to undergo different transformations with the bonding of a void spren? Yeah, that's what prompted my idea. They just dismiss it as 'Voidbringers are the worst. Chasmfiends are the worst. Voidbringers must look like Chasmfiends.' But it could be deeper than that. What we've seen so far with the Parshendi, I don't think bonding Voidspren is a magic system, as defined by an interaction between a Shard and a Planet with an Initiation. All the other magic systems in the cosmere that we've seen need a user; if Voidspren just bond and change, then who is actually using that magic? Is the spren using itself? Rather, I think it's a Realmatic phenomenon. Brandon has made parallels to a situation in Mistborn, where users of a certain magic system (Hemalurgy) would become open to the influence or even full control of Ruin, that magic's Shard. The magic of Hemalurgy isn't opening someone to control - but creating openings for a Shard's control is a side effect. Same thing I think is happening here: the Parshendi naturally bond spren, no magic required. (There were spren before Honor and Cultivation arrived, and there are hints that the Parshendi predate the Shards as well, so before the arrival of the Shards Roshar would have been more like Threnody or First of the Sun, with Realmatic behavior but no formal magic system.) But, when they bond an Odiumspren, it opens them up to Odium's control, in addition to the normal effects of that bond (whatever form they gain). Chasmfiends have natural spren bonds as well. Thunderclasts, I'm not as sure how they would fit into this, since rocks don't naturally bond spren. (I think.) The only info we have on Voidbinding proper, at least that I can recall, is that it lets you see the future, and that there are ten levels of it. (Uh... at the start of the Mistborn series, there are 10 known metals, one of which lets you see the future. I'm sure the parallels are entirely accidental.) So, it implies that Voidbinding is something people use to create prophecies, which doesn't seem similar at all to what's happening to the Parshendi. Although, the Lashings are very different from Soulcasting, and they're all part of the same overall magic system of Surgebinding. So, you never know, they might be part and parcel. But I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchy Savant Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Good point there, I can get behind the Realmatic Phenomenon explanation. And with thunderclasts, I mentioned in another post that all the investiture involved with the High storms may be enough to grant the Crem in the ground a small amount of sapience (like another planet we have seen, granted that other planet is a special case). My thinking is the invested crem is what allows a voidspren to bond with rocks and make a thunderclast. That or perhaps it is a voidbinding surge? Or maybe it is similar to the Nahel bond, but sintead of Blade/Plate its giant evil rocks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kale"adin Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Itchy Savant said: Good point there, I can get behind the Realmatic Phenomenon explanation. And with thunderclasts, I mentioned in another post that all the investiture involved with the High storms may be enough to grant the Crem in the ground a small amount of sapience (like another planet we have seen, granted that other planet is a special case). My thinking is the invested crem is what allows a voidspren to bond with rocks and make a thunderclast. That or perhaps it is a voidbinding surge? Or maybe it is similar to the Nahel bond, but sintead of Blade/Plate its giant evil rocks. I was thinking that the Odium Spren could have been using surges of their own. Maybe the type of spren that creates a thunderclast could be similar to gravitation Spren, or the type of Spren that grants the surge of adhesion. From the Rosharan essay we learn that bonds are what allow things to grow so large, and grant intelligence to animals like the Ryshadium, so perhaps the Odium spren form bonds similar to those. The only difference would be that Odium Soren could also bond inanimate (or perhaps invested) objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchy Savant Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I hope book 3 gives us info on Voidbinding. Does anybody know if all Voidbringers are a result of Void spren or if there is variance like the KR? Are the Hate Spren the Parshendi use the same as Void Spren? Different? A Red Herring perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kale"adin Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Itchy Savant said: Are the Hate Spren the Parshendi use the same as Void Spren? Different? A Red Herring perhaps? I remember someone in WOR mentioning that storm form is one of the weaker voidbringer forms but I can't remember who said it. I believe that each voidbringer form has its own void spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchy Savant Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Thanks for clearing that up! Its actually been a while since i read the Stormlight Archive (excluding Edgedancer) So it is all getting a bit blurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezrien Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I've always assumed that 'Voidbringer' is a very large and diverse category of creatures, and that the Parshendi are just a small part of it. They're acting as the forerunners of the Desolation. Soon, though, hordes of more fantastical void-monsters will start crossing over from Braize. (or maybe Ashyn. Who knows?) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I also wondered if there was some sort of connection between "seeing the future is of the Voidbringers" and what Atium does in the Mistborn series. I know Atium doesn't really let you see the future fully, but it has that general effect when used by an Allomancer. So it's possible that Odium could have a similarity with Ruin when it comes to earning the ability to look into the future. Also, in Arcanum Unbounded, the description of the Roshnaran System says that the locals in this system refer to self-aware Splinters as "spren." If spren are pieces of Splintered Shards, then is it possible that at least one (maybe more) Shards were Splintered in the past to create the spren? I wondered about the possibility of Honor being Splintered when he refers to himself as being dead, and that's where his spren come from. I guess my question is, can spren be created without a Shard being Splintered? Or are spren only the by-products (small pieces) of Splintered Shards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, Andy92 said: I guess my question is, can spren be created without a Shard being Splintered? Or are spren only the by-products (small pieces) of Splintered Shards? Some Spren existed before the Shards got there, courtesy of ambient Investiture from Adonalsium went he created the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Ah okay. I was wondering if Voidspren were created due to the Splintering of another Shard that may or may not be known by name yet. But if that's the case then there could be a few different scenarios for their origins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kale"adin Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 @Andy92 I believe the voidspren are just odium spren sent to Roshar during the desolation as a way to get past the humans, who it has theorized may be unaware "shields" used to protect the shards (Now just Cultivation). I'm pretty sure they are voluntary splinters created by Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Makes sense. I just started wondering when I was reading through Arcanum Unboudned and saw the comment about people on Roshar referring to Splintered Shards as spren. But it makes sense that spren can come from Shards in more than one way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi5 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 I just noticed something with the names if Voidbringer and Voidbinding are the actual names (it has been a while since I read the books and my wife is reading them now so I can't check without messing up her place on the e-reader). The Parshendi could be just the voidbringers and are separate from voidbinding, if we take the name literally as those who bring the void, (void-spren, odium-spren, something else.) Voidbinding could be the void-spren taking over different things and binding them to odium. I think the voidbinding is a lot weaker than the voidbringer idea because we also have surgebinding, but the name of voidbringer just suddenly struck me as a name that has an obvious meaning I just completely overlooked. I assumed voidbringers were the bad guys, but completely missed that they could just be the ones bringing the bad guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djammmer Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 On 1/24/2017 at 9:52 AM, Daishi5 said: I just noticed something with the names if Voidbringer and Voidbinding are the actual names (it has been a while since I read the books and my wife is reading them now so I can't check without messing up her place on the e-reader). The Parshendi could be just the voidbringers and are separate from voidbinding, if we take the name literally as those who bring the void, (void-spren, odium-spren, something else.) Voidbinding could be the void-spren taking over different things and binding them to odium. I think the voidbinding is a lot weaker than the voidbringer idea because we also have surgebinding, but the name of voidbringer just suddenly struck me as a name that has an obvious meaning I just completely overlooked. I assumed voidbringers were the bad guys, but completely missed that they could just be the ones bringing the bad guys. I like this theory. I never thought of voidbring. I guess Lift should be telling Wendell to "voidbind" that... Instead of "voidbring" that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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