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The secret of the radiants


Steeldancer

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This may just be me, but the fact that Jasnah trusts the accuracy of something critical of the Radiants in a post Heirocracy world as valid information definitely means something.

As Spool said, "firing" sounds deliberate. But on the other hand, I feel that if it were critical of the Radiants, it would be less likely to be changed during the Heirocracy, since they would want to deal with all positive texts first yes?

Thirdly, Oathgate taxes had to be an established thing for the "altered fact" idea to hold any merit. After all, the best lies are believable ones. Accounting records seem less likely to be tampered with, and those would be likely to show tariffs, especially if Kings visited Urithiru via Oathgate

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1 minute ago, The One Who Connects said:

As Spool said, "firing" sounds deliberate. But on the other hand, I feel that if it were critical of the Radiants, it would be less likely to be changed during the Heirocracy, since they would want to deal with all positive texts first yes?

Possibly other parts of the book were undesirable which is why it was burnt. One page out of an autobiography. Although, the tone does sound like the writer has some issues with the Radiants. 

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5 hours ago, Jaconis said:

It was unanimous among a given order, which especially among the two I mentioned above I have difficulty believing this is the reason. 

Which personal autobiography? Can you point me to the quote? Regardless, the subject of the book doesn't really matter; nearly everything was modified during the Hierocracy. 

 

I thought of that. This is an admittedly weak counter argument, but we know that it was the sight of Kaladin surgebinding that caused the Parshendi to accept stormform. Perhaps this is what Mr T was trying to avoid? Again, it's weak, but it's the best I got at the moment. 

The rest of your post makes good arguments; looking mostly through Kaladin at all this makes it easy to forget that the other orders don't prioritize the same things, and that what's "right", even by these virtuous knights, isn't always easy to define. 

An argument against the point that this was the spren's request; in his vision, Dalinar feels an immense sense of betrayal as he walks amongst the abandoned shards. This may be the Stormfather uncontrollably projecting his thoughts on the matter, but I got the sense it came from the spren themselves. If so, I think it unlikely the spren were behind this. 

I should point out, I don't actually think we have enough information to know one way or another what the reason for the Recreance was, and the above were just the ideas I found most plausible. 

You make some good points, but we really don't know if it was unanimous amongst any order.

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I find it hard, very hard, to believe that any normal person would willingly sacrifice their closest companions, persons they love dearly, for anything. Radiants and spren share a very powerful bond that is not only manifest in their abilities, but also emotions and companionship. I cannot believe anything other that they were influenced by something nefarious to make a terrible decision. Perhaps one of the Heralds (Ishar?) was very slightly corrupted by Odium during their tenure in Braize, causing a domino effect.

Edited by Rob Lucci
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2 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

I find it hard, very hard, to believe that any normal person would willingly sacrifice their closest companions, persons they love dearly, for anything. Radiants and spren share a very powerful bond that is not only manifest in their abilities, but also emotions and companionship. I cannot believe anything other that they were influenced by something nefarious to make a terrible decision. Perhaps one of the Heralds (Ishar?) was very slightly corrupted by Odium during their tenure in Braize, causing a domino effect.

I kind of find it very easy believe that in a terrible situation a normal person could be convinced to do something just as crazy and terrible. Groups of people are even worse.

I'm also not sure that I want it to be just some deception that influenced their actions. I think I would much prefer it to be some horrible truth which is just as true in the present as it was in the past and that the current group of Radiants must overcome. That would also explain to me why Taravangian believes he can bring them down with this great secret once again.

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To be fair, I was being kind of bad with my comparison. Radiants are not normal people. Supposedly they're much stronger both mentally and physically.

I'm very skeptical, though. A "big secret" that destroys the Radiants just doesn't seem like a big challenge, imo. A secret can be ignored. Unless it's something like forcing the Radiants to go against their Oaths, or forcing a choice for them? I dunno. I just don't buy this secret thing.

Edited by Rob Lucci
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I'm not so sure about that mentally part. I suppose it may be true of a full Radiant but becoming a Radiant apparently requires you to be broken in some way. Taking all of the oaths may somewhat heal that but (just judging from Kaladin and Shallan,) I don't think most are ever going to really get over the things that broke them.

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5 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

To be fair, I was being kind of bad with my comparison. Radiants are not normal people. Supposedly they're much stronger both mentally and physically.

I'm very skeptical, though. A "big secret" that destroys the Radiants just doesn't seem like a big challenge, imo. A secret can be ignored. Unless it's something like forcing the Radiants to go against their Oaths, or forcing a choice for them? I dunno. I just don't buy this secret thing.

Quote

"Hold the secret that broke the Knights Radiant. You may need it to destroy the new orders when they return."

-The Diagram

Taravangian seems to think that the secret is real and goes on to imply that he can choose to use it to break the Knights Radiant. Or not.  It's something he wants to keep in his back pocket to use if necessary.  Bear in mind though that he seems like he would prefer to just murder the proto-radiants before they get organized rather than rely on using the secret.  Some points to consider:

  • People on Roshar don't seem to have much knowledge of Odium.  There's speculation that he is referenced in some of their Religious rhetoric, but only loosely.  Because of this, I'm skeptical that the secret would be anything along the lines of: "Odium can mind-control KR," or "Odium's power will be increased by the existence of KR"
  • The secret probably wouldn't lead to the KR downfall if it was left unrevealed since the KR existed for at least a few thousand years before they learned the secret and promptly disbanded
  • It would be pretty disappointing if it turned out Odium could directly influence the Heralds' or KR's thoughts/actions, as this has already been explored greatly on Scadrial, and is a big plot point with the Parshendi already.  Sanderson has a good record for creativity, so I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt here for now.
  • It may very well be too late for the secret to be useful to Taravangian, as the Voidbringers have already returned.  Breaking the KR might not align with his ultimate plans of saving a seed of humanity anymore, we just don't really know.
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I personally have always thought the secret couldn't be a "hidden truth" as I honestly can't think of one "classical truth" which would lead in Radiants commonly, spontaneously and instantaneously break down their oaths. These three elements make me seriously doubt the secret could be a mere truth such as "Radiants are the ones causing the Desolation" which while hard to swallow wouldn't lead in the mass effect we have seen. There would always be those who'd disagree with any mass decision and those poor fellows, in Dalinar's flashback, did look traumatized and shaken. It didn't seem as if they wanted to break down their oath. 

There is also the fact no former Radiants saw fit to try to revive his bond.... Surely, if they purposefully broke down their oaths of the own accord, there would have been those who'd regret, who'd try to take it back. It seems impossible for over 1000 Radiants to just all agree this is the right decision. I just don't buy it.

My thoughts are thus the secret is a way, a mechanical way, to literally break down the oaths of the Radiants, against their will. Not in the sense of Odium succeeding in controlling them, more in the sense of a built-in escape path of the Nahel bond which allow the right person with the right information to just shatter it into nothingness or something along those lines.

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But how do you mechanically break the oaths of thousands of Radiants? And wouldn't they seemingly immediately lose access to their powers like Kaladin when he was going to break his oaths?

It seemed to me that laying down their swords and armor was the act that truly broke their oaths. That was when the life drained from their swords and armor, not before.

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Any of you ever consider that they all might have just shaken their heads and said to themselves humanity doesn't deserve my sacrifice.  Look at how the people of this world act. The very first thing the non-radiants did after picking up the shards was turn them on there fellow men. Not just any men either it was there comrades in arms they used the shards on.

 

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I´d like to point out that when Kaladin started to walk away from the Windrunner´s oaths, he started to lose abilities progressively, as Syl started to behave more and more like a windspren.

If the radiants were becoming corrupt, wouldn't they lose their abilities progressively too?

In the Recreance vision, the Radiants are wearing their shards and can summon their shardblades. It seems to me that they decided to abandon their oaths in that moment. Once they "froze" their shards, they did´t care to keep on living, so that (along with the fact that they betrayed their best friends) suggest the secret was something huge, and they could´t find a better solution.

I also believe they left their shards so humanity wouldn't be defenseless against the voidbringers, maybe without realizing the shard would end up corrupting man.

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35 minutes ago, Awesomness said:

I´d like to point out that when Kaladin started to walk away from the Windrunner´s oaths, he started to lose abilities progressively, as Syl started to behave more and more like a windspren.

If the radiants were becoming corrupt, wouldn't they lose their abilities progressively too?

Yes, if they were doing so in a way that betrays their oaths. I'm sure their of ways to do so. An example I can think of off the top of my head is Skybreakers becoming total law followers like Nale is coupled with the introduction of unsavory laws. Upholding those corrupt laws would be them being corrupt while still maintaining their oaths.

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My own suspicion is that Brandon's written himself into a corner with this one.  I'd really like it not to be the case, but the honest truth is that I can't come up with any reasonable way to completely and satisfactorily explain the Recreance.  In my experience, ten friends can't agree unanimously on where to go for dinner; trying to get a hundred times as many people to unanimously agree to abandon their oaths and betray their beloved companions to an eternity of torment seems utterly impossible.  Even if you adopt the theory that the spren are going around murdering potential Radiants' families and whatnot (the explanation that I think Brandon is going with), it still doesn't hold water, IMHO.

The one theory that I think does kind of work is that the Radiants being on Roshar somehow allows Odium to build up force, which he will then use to break free, splinter Cultivation, and destroy everyone.  If you're all doomed just by existing, you might as well break your oaths and give everyone else a chance, slim though it may be.  But honestly, I'm having a hard time imagining unanimity even given such terrible options.  I suppose you could get there with the idea that there was a schism among the Radiants, that the majority agreed that abandoning their oaths was necessary, that said majority hunted down and killed those Radiants that didn't agree (much like Nalan is doing presently), and that therefore the unanimity we see in Honor's vision is an artificial product of killing everyone who disagreed.

But I don't see how the Radiants would successfully hide such a decision from their spren.  I suppose the "betrayal" Dalinar senses could be a betrayal-of-oaths, and not a betrayal-of-spren.  But why would Tavargian assume that such a secret could be used to break the KR again, if the modern-day variety don't even know that Cultivation exists?  The theory almost works, but it doesn't quite hang together.

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8 hours ago, galendo said:

My own suspicion is that Brandon's written himself into a corner with this one.

I don't disagree with most of your logic, but I have to take exception to this point.  Brandon knew before he started what the Recreance was going to be, I'm sure, and he'll probably either have us completely blindsided or saying "Duh, I should have figured that out".  Have confidence in the man. :P

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On 1/28/2017 at 5:41 PM, maxal said:

I personally have always thought the secret couldn't be a "hidden truth" as I honestly can't think of one "classical truth" which would lead in Radiants commonly, spontaneously and instantaneously break down their oaths. These three elements make me seriously doubt the secret could be a mere truth such as "Radiants are the ones causing the Desolation" which while hard to swallow wouldn't lead in the mass effect we have seen. There would always be those who'd disagree with any mass decision and those poor fellows, in Dalinar's flashback, did look traumatized and shaken. It didn't seem as if they wanted to break down their oath. 

I think this is a fantastic point, and it's supported by that relevant line from the Diagram.

If Taravangian wants to stop the Radiants from forming, then why not just reveal the secret now? Like, why wait for them to form and then say, "Aha, here's the secret! Now you will all be crushed and have a Recreance again." If the secret is just some kind of really discouraging 'knowledge' then he could reveal it now and stop the Radiants from forming in the first place.

I mean, perhaps he's just not sure if he wants to ruin the Radiants. So he wants to keep the secret in his back pocket just in case he decides that destroying them needs to be done.

But feels more likely to me that the secret is more powerful than some piece of knowledge that just makes the Radiants decide to give up.

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@galendo

We can't say for an absolute fact that a significant number of Radiants didn't die with their Oaths intact during the Recreance...However, I believe we have statements from both Syl and the Stormfather that an overwhelming majority of the spren bonded to Radiants during the time of the Recreance were killed.  WoB has it that when a Radiant dies with their Oaths intact, in general, their spren will suffer some emotional trauma and lose the extra connection to the physical realm it gains from the Nahel bond, but it will be free to bond another person if it wants to.  For your proposal that "a significant number of Radiants may have chosen to opt out of the Recreance and been hunted down and killed" to be more plausible, I would add the condition that their spren must have been hunted down and killed as well.

To the best of my knowledge, the question, "can a shardblade be used to kill a spren?" has been met with RAFO at every turn.  It's been confirmed that Nightblood could kill a spren though, so they definitely aren't immortal.

@maxal

I like your arguments for why the secret to destroying the Radiants isn't likely to be some kind of hidden truth.  The following explanation occurred to me as I was reading your post:

What if the secret to destroying the Radiants is to maneuver them into a situation where no matter what they do they'll end up breaking their oaths?  Similar to what happened to Kaladin.  This opens up the possibilities that 1) the Recreance could have been an accident, and 2) the reason one order of the KR stayed intact could be because their particular oaths allow them the wiggle room to perform the mental gymnastics needed to resolve the moral conflict they were confronted with.

Consider the following hypothetical example:  A province at the edge of one kingdom's territory rises up and declares independence because its people feel they aren't being paid enough by their Kingdom for the grain they supply to other regions (IE: they're making a push for free-market capitalism instead of the oppressive Feudal system seen across Roshar).  Its parent kingdom, motivated by a desire for peace, stability, economic interests, and concern for the welfare of all of its citizens, sends troops in to put down the uprising and petitions the Knights Radiant for assistance.

The Knights Radiant are thus faced with the following choices:

  • Agree to the parent Kingdom's request and help them end the rebellion quickly, thus saving more lives than if the war was allowed to play out slowly.
    • This would in turn result in the Radiants having to kill more-or-less innocent and defenseless farmers or, at the very least, assist in their continued oppression
  • Help the farmers who are, realistically, probably being taken advantage of and oppressed by their government.
    • Thereby creating a competing Kingdom, possibly leading to future conflicts, and causing a widespread increase in grain prices, potentially resulting in widespread famine and general instability.
  • Refuse to participate in the conflict at all
    • Resulting in death and chaos as, after a needlessly long conflict, one side inevitably gains an advantage over the other and wins
  • Attempt to mediate the situation to come up with a compromise
    • A Feudal Kingdom like those we've seen on Roshar would probably be very resistant to the idea of making any concessions in this type of rebellion scenario, as they would most likely believe it would encourage other regions to make demands of their central government and thus weaken their authority, leading to even more rebellions and conflicts.
    • If negotiations broke down the Radiants would then have to pick between one of the first three options

Not a perfect theory perhaps; it might still be impossibly difficult to trap so many Radiants into a conflict they couldn't resolve without breaking their oaths...Thoughts anyone?

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17 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I don't disagree with most of your logic, but I have to take exception to this point.  Brandon knew before he started what the Recreance was going to be, I'm sure, and he'll probably either have us completely blindsided or saying "Duh, I should have figured that out".  Have confidence in the man. :P

Well, I'm certainly hoping that's what happens.  I know Brandon knows what the Recreance is, I'm just not convinced that he's reached a conclusion that I'll find convincing when it's revealed.  For instance, in Mistborn, some of the "mysteries" I thought were handled rather badly.  To whit, in rough order that they irk me,

Spoiler

1) The big secret to keeping the atium out of Ruin's hands was to burn it all up?  What?  That doesn't make any sense.  Since atium takes 300 years to reform, and the Lord Ruler knew that Ruin's potential return was coming up soon, why didn't he, his Inquisitors, or his mistborn just go on an atium-burning binge?  Sorry Ruin, no atium for you.  Come back in another two centuries.

2) I'm supposed to believe that "only things written in metal are safe", but at the same time I'm supposed to believe that memories stored in metal aren't safe?  That's some cognitive dissonance right there.  And to make matters worse, I'm supposed to believe it on the testimony of some Terrisman with an impeccable memory, who noticed that the memories he was retrieving from his copperminds didn't match the ones he put in.  But by the rules of the magic, you're supposed to forget any memories you store in your copperminds, which makes such recognition impossible.

3) The Deepness.  Like, this was made out to be some huge mystery, some terrible force that ruined the land, and the answer was...the mists?  Like, what?  I'm supposed to believe that no one ever wrote something equating the two, like "These terrible mists that are covering the land, which some are now calling the Deepness...."  That's just not the sort of thing that should become a great mystery in the first place, and I felt somewhat cheated by the revelation/resolution.

4) There are some others, like the fact that those struck down by Preservation for one day became mistings, while those struck down for sixteen days became...atium mistings?  I dunno, seems weird.  They should have been mistborn, IMHO.  Would have worked just as well in the story.  But that's just a single decision I'd have done differently, not the resolution of a huge mystery I find unsatisfying.

Or, if you haven't read the Mistborn trilogy, one mystery in Way of Kings that I was rather disappointed with the revelation was the secret behind Dalinar's visions: that he wasn't actually conversing with Honor, just getting talked at by an unhearing, unresponding recording.  But I've mistaken an answering machine for an actual person picking up the phone before, and started to have a conversation with the machine; and let me tell you that it takes about five seconds or less to realize your mistake.  Like literally less than five seconds.  Same thing's happened when I'm on the phone and the other person mutes me accidentally.  Then it takes maybe ten seconds.  And yet I'm supposed to believe that Dalinar doesn't figure it out after several sessions of several minutes of conversation?  It just isn't reasonable or realistic.

So I'm sure there's an explanation for the Recreance.  I'm just not convinced it can possibly be one that I find satisfying.

14 hours ago, hwiles said:

What if the secret to destroying the Radiants is to maneuver them into a situation where no matter what they do they'll end up breaking their oaths?  Similar to what happened to Kaladin.  This opens up the possibilities that 1) the Recreance could have been an accident, and 2) the reason one order of the KR stayed intact could be because their particular oaths allow them the wiggle room to perform the mental gymnastics needed to resolve the moral conflict they were confronted with.

It seems like that would be a really hard thing to do, though.  For instance, how are you going to maneuver every Windrunner to break his/her sworn word?  The only oath they will 100% have in common is the "life before death" one, so it would have to be a conflict with that oath.  (As a corollary, though, if you can get it to work somehow, it would work for every Order, since they all share that one.)  But with the example you cited, I'm pretty sure the Windrunners at least would be fine with options 1, 2, or 4 without causing any sort of oath-conflict at all.  Note that Syl is perfectly fine with fighting Parshendi, and if she can do that, she should also be fine with fighting the farmers or the soldiers.  That's my thoughts on the matter, at least.

It's also worth noting that when Kaladin gets into oath-trouble, he loses his powers bit by bit, whereas when we saw the Recreance, one minute the Windrunners are flying around no problem and the next they've all gone dun.  It doesn't really mimic what we've seen with accidental oathbreaking.

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5 hours ago, galendo said:

one mystery in Way of Kings that I was rather disappointed with the revelation was the secret behind Dalinar's visions: that he wasn't actually conversing with Honor, just getting talked at by an unhearing, unresponding recording.  But I've mistaken an answering machine for an actual person picking up the phone before, and started to have a conversation with the machine; and let me tell you that it takes about five seconds or less to realize your mistake.  Like literally less than five seconds.  Same thing's happened when I'm on the phone and the other person mutes me accidentally.  Then it takes maybe ten seconds.  And yet I'm supposed to believe that Dalinar doesn't figure it out after several sessions of several minutes of conversation?  It just isn't reasonable or realistic.

I would argue with this, for three reasons.

  • You are aware of the existence of answering machines. Dalinar is not; moreover, Dalinar has no knowledge of computer games, videos, chatbots, or anything similar. He literally lacks the mental framework necessary to quickly pick up on something like this.
  • Honor has the capacity to see the future to some extent, and has engineered the entire scene. He knows what kind of person he picked up; he can reasonably predict what questions his candidate will ask of the Honorbot. As such, his monologue will fit Dalinar more than an answering machines will fit you.
  • Dalinar, especially later on, feels the need to believe that he's actually talking with some higher entity; he needs to know that he's not crazy and that the Almighty approves of his actions. As such, he might be subconsciously overlooking small details that don't fit in, which could clue another person that they're dealing with an Honorbot.

Anyway, back to the topic - I agree that it's unlikely that "the secret" is some bit of knowledge, or some situation which might be engineered. Personally, I find it more likely that the secret is something that will force the Radiants to break their oaths, not because they will learn it and go "oh, hell no!", but because they will be physically (magically?) compelled to do so. Their behaviour in Dalinar's vision of the Recreance is, in my opinion, far too uniform for this to be something... natural, for lack of a better word.

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This is an interesting deathrattle from WoK Chapter 2: Honor is Dead.

Quote

'Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone?'

— A lighteyed woman in her third decade, five seconds before death

 

If this is one of the Lost Radiants, then we have reason to believe that the KR did not willingly set down their bonds. "Shard of my soul" is an interesting metaphor. I believe this refers to their bonded spren. Could this mean that the secret is a way for somebody to forcibly take away the spren of a Radiant, even temporarily?

Edited by Rob Lucci
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Ok, so since I agree that the secret is probably something that forced the Radiants to give up their bonds, instead of making them choose it, the scary thought just occurred to me: who else knows it? Did Taravangian include it in the Diagram? If so, does Graves know it? Anyone else who has recieved all or part of the Diagram? We know there are even differing opinions within those that are following it, and to believe none of them would share something like that with someone else at some point seems naive. Perhaps Odium wanted to make sure someone knew it, though I don't think he was behind the Diagram itself, even indirectly.

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13 hours ago, galendo said:

Well, I'm certainly hoping that's what happens.  I know Brandon knows what the Recreance is, I'm just not convinced that he's reached a conclusion that I'll find convincing when it's revealed.  For instance, in Mistborn, some of the "mysteries" I thought were handled rather badly.  To whit, in rough order that they irk me,

  Reveal hidden contents

1) The big secret to keeping the atium out of Ruin's hands was to burn it all up?  What?  That doesn't make any sense.  Since atium takes 300 years to reform, and the Lord Ruler knew that Ruin's potential return was coming up soon, why didn't he, his Inquisitors, or his mistborn just go on an atium-burning binge?  Sorry Ruin, no atium for you.  Come back in another two centuries.

2) I'm supposed to believe that "only things written in metal are safe", but at the same time I'm supposed to believe that memories stored in metal aren't safe?  That's some cognitive dissonance right there.  And to make matters worse, I'm supposed to believe it on the testimony of some Terrisman with an impeccable memory, who noticed that the memories he was retrieving from his copperminds didn't match the ones he put in.  But by the rules of the magic, you're supposed to forget any memories you store in your copperminds, which makes such recognition impossible.

3) The Deepness.  Like, this was made out to be some huge mystery, some terrible force that ruined the land, and the answer was...the mists?  Like, what?  I'm supposed to believe that no one ever wrote something equating the two, like "These terrible mists that are covering the land, which some are now calling the Deepness...."  That's just not the sort of thing that should become a great mystery in the first place, and I felt somewhat cheated by the revelation/resolution.

4) There are some others, like the fact that those struck down by Preservation for one day became mistings, while those struck down for sixteen days became...atium mistings?  I dunno, seems weird.  They should have been mistborn, IMHO.  Would have worked just as well in the story.  But that's just a single decision I'd have done differently, not the resolution of a huge mystery I find unsatisfying.

I think you've either misread or are misremembering for the 2nd point.

What actually happened is almost entirely the opposite of what you're describing - He noticed the discrepancies because the memories other people were retrieving from their copperminds were different to the memories he had kept in his head. The entire trick relied on people forgetting their memories when they stored them, but by virtue of not needing to use copperminds, he was immune. 

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1 hour ago, Tarion said:

I think you've either misread or are misremembering for the 2nd point.

What actually happened is almost entirely the opposite of what you're describing - He noticed the discrepancies because the memories other people were retrieving from their copperminds were different to the memories he had kept in his head. The entire trick relied on people forgetting their memories when they stored them, but by virtue of not needing to use copperminds, he was immune. 

@galendo, the other important fact there is that Feruchemy as a magic system is of both Preservation and Ruin, meaning Ruin has a direct "line in" so to speak, as the memories were stored. He could alter them because of that, so the metal was meaningless at that point.

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17 hours ago, galendo said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

1) The big secret to keeping the atium out of Ruin's hands was to burn it all up?  What?  That doesn't make any sense.  Since atium takes 300 years to reform, and the Lord Ruler knew that Ruin's potential return was coming up soon, why didn't he, his Inquisitors, or his mistborn just go on an atium-burning binge?  Sorry Ruin, no atium for you.  Come back in another two centuries.

2) I'm supposed to believe that "only things written in metal are safe", but at the same time I'm supposed to believe that memories stored in metal aren't safe?  That's some cognitive dissonance right there.  And to make matters worse, I'm supposed to believe it on the testimony of some Terrisman with an impeccable memory, who noticed that the memories he was retrieving from his copperminds didn't match the ones he put in.  But by the rules of the magic, you're supposed to forget any memories you store in your copperminds, which makes such recognition impossible.

3) The Deepness.  Like, this was made out to be some huge mystery, some terrible force that ruined the land, and the answer was...the mists?  Like, what?  I'm supposed to believe that no one ever wrote something equating the two, like "These terrible mists that are covering the land, which some are now calling the Deepness...."  That's just not the sort of thing that should become a great mystery in the first place, and I felt somewhat cheated by the revelation/resolution.

4) There are some others, like the fact that those struck down by Preservation for one day became mistings, while those struck down for sixteen days became...atium mistings?  I dunno, seems weird.  They should have been mistborn, IMHO.  Would have worked just as well in the story.  But that's just a single decision I'd have done differently, not the resolution of a huge mystery I find unsatisfying.

 

Mistborn spoilers everywhere.

Spoiler

1. Burning atium doesn't prevent it from being reformed in 300 years, destroying the crystals in the Pits of Hathsin, the place where Ruin's power leaked out did. You could argue that TLR could've still taken that step, but the atium was in fact serving an important purpose for him; giving him a direct line of control over the economy of the Final Empire. Losing it would've meant the possibility of chaos, something which would've added more unpredictable risks than if he had just played it safe and waited for the Well to refill so he could fix things again.

2. As Jondesu said, the memories were being stored using Ruin's power. No surprise he could touch them. Also, there's a huge difference between storing investiture in metal which is how the copperminds function, and physically writing it in metal, in addition to the reason why he couldn't read the physical metal, which they detail. It was literally glowing for him, he couldn't see the physical metal. Also, Kwaan wasn't a feruchemist, he just had a good memory naturally.

3. TLR hid the actual knowledge. If people knew it was just mist, then he would've seen less impressive as the one who defeated the Deepness. Yes, feels underwhelming, at the same time, makes sense. Really maintained the line of how many falsehoods TLR had created over the years.

4. Honestly, would've felt boring if we had created 300 new mistborns after all the build-up that they were so rare. Seer mistings make more sense too, since they probably would've been easier to snap into, as less spiritual would've needed to have been changed.

 

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