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36 minutes ago, skaa said:

I vaguely remember a WoB regarding whether or not you can use the metalminds of someone whose Feruchemical ability you stole via Hemalurgy, but it doesn't seem to be in Theoryland. Does anyone remember where it is (if it really does exist and I'm not just misremembering things)?

You are not misremembering, I remember this WoB although I am also having trouble finding it. I believe that he said that there would be more needed to access the metalmind (which we can now assume involves Identity manipulation), but that it would be sensed differently than trying just trying to use a metalmind of another Feruchemist almost like familiar but still foreign.

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Q: If a Ferring creates a metalmind and then loses his power (for example through Hemalurgy), could he still use his previous-made metalmind ?
 
A: No, he could not. And, unfortunately, the person who stole a bit of his soul would probably be keyed with enough Identity to use his metalmind. :( (This is uncertain, though, based on how much of the soul got ripped off, and how much the spike has decayed.)

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5 hours ago, skaa said:

I vaguely remember a WoB regarding whether or not you can use the metalminds of someone whose Feruchemical ability you stole via Hemalurgy, but it doesn't seem to be in Theoryland. Does anyone remember where it is (if it really does exist and I'm not just misremembering things)?

It looks like @Pagerunner found the WoB in question, but as a fun fact here's some more WoBs on Hemalurgic shenanigans that I re-found while searching myself.

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/47091-the-circle-of-infinite-power-has-been-closed/

 

Edited by Kurkistan
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Thanks, @Pagerunner!

@Kurkistan, I think it's interesting that Brandon uses Identity to explain how a Hemalurgist could access his victim's metalminds, while he uses Connection to explain a Gold Compounder's ability to burn his metalminds for Health even when his Feruchemical gold is removed. I wonder if a sufficiently knowledgeable Twinborn Connector could do a Connection-based hack to burn any metal/metalmind (or, more likely, just other Connector's duraluminminds).

Edited by skaa
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31 minutes ago, skaa said:

I think it's interesting that Brandon uses Identity to explain how a Hemalurgist could access his victim's metalminds, while he uses Connection to explain a Gold Compounder's ability to burn his metalminds for Health even when his Feruchemical gold is removed.

Well, Identity is a Spiritual Attribute yes? And the Spiritual Realm seems to be full of connections. 

Is it too much to assume that your Identity, the "who you are" trait, is comprised entirely of connections? Your interactions with people and events can fundamentally change who you are as a person in real life, so I can see your past connections to people and events shaping your Identity in the Cosmere.

And an H-Spike steals a bit of your soul, a bit of "who you are", when it steals your power, and grafts it onto someone else. 

Disclaimer: This is personal head-canon, and should not be taken as absolute fact at this time.

As for Metalminds, they consider themselves as "Belonging to You." By grafting that spike in, I may be considered "you" enough to use them, but you are still considered "you" enough to compound them.

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My take on that @skaa and @The One Who Connects is that makes sense as you need Connection to use a magic system but Identity to use your own stored magic. I gather (and I'm happy to be corrected in this realmatically) is that Identity is the sum of your connections but Connection (in this context) is Connection to the relevant Shard. (For example I'm assuming Feruchemist twins have the same Connection necessary to user Allomancy but could not use each others metalminds as their identity, while being the same originally, has changed through Connections built up during life).

So yeah a person who's spiked out another's ability could not use that second person's metalmind as they didn't steal the person's identity, just the connection necessary to use the magic. A person who's had their ability spiked out and somehow survived however still has the Identity to use their own metalmind but does not have the necessary Connection any more to exploit the magic.

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10 minutes ago, Extesian said:

So yeah a person who's spiked out another's ability could not use that second person's metalmind as they didn't steal the person's identity, just the connection necessary to use the magic.

Pagerunner's WoB says that they might have stolen enough Identity to use the second person's Metalminds though..

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13 minutes ago, Extesian said:

So yeah a person who's spiked out another's ability could not use that second person's metalmind as they didn't steal the person's identity, just the connection necessary to use the magic. A person who's had their ability spiked out and somehow survived however still has the Identity to use their own metalmind but does not have the necessary Connection any more to exploit the magic.

That's actually the opposite of what the WoBs say. The one Pagerunner quoted above explicitly said that the Hemalurgist would probably be able to use the victim's metalmind. The WoB in Kurk's thread that I was referring to above explicitly uses Connection to explain how the Gold Compounder could still burn his metalminds after his Feruchemical gold is removed.

Edit: ninja'd

Edited by skaa
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Ah thanks both of you, I read too quickly! Though would the bit about perhaps having stolen enough of the person's identity not mesh with that idea of Identity being made up of connections? That in deliberately spiking out the connection that gives the magic using ability (innate investiture I guess) it basically tears off enough of the other connections that they sufficiently match the connection stored in the metalmind? 

Ha, but yes, one of my less helpful inputs :)

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I see it that Identity is kind of like your soul's DNA (yeah, I know sDNA is something different, that's just analogy). When you rip off parts of the soul with Hemalurgy (for example you spike out some Feruchemical ability) the spike will contain that ability primed with Identity of the donor.

So when you try to use donor's metalmind, you can. When donor tries to burn his metalmind, he also can do it because his Identity as whole matches the one ingrained in metalmind.

The question we need to ask is: If you are a Full Feruchemist and you spike a Full Feruchemist and he survives, could you use his metalminds other than the ones related to the spiked ability?

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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, 8bitBob said:

I'm looking for a WoB that I think was pretty recent. It basically said that Shardplate would stand up pretty well against bullets. I swear it exists, but for the life of me I cannot find it.

Here though not so new. But it's from Reddit, Pagerunner's compilation, so feels new to me as well. 

Quote

"Plate would resist a bullet well"

 

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Looking up for WoB about what happens with the Shard after Vessel is no longer there.

I found one:

Quote

Dor, which is an amalgamation of Dominion and Devotion, has been pressed together and stuffed into the Cognitive Realm by Odium who didnt want it to gain sentience, as Investiture will do if it is left alone. It will either seek someone to be its Vessel or it will gain sentience.

source

But I'm fairly sure that Brandon also mentioned it could Splinter. Perhaps it was about Ruin and Preservation left after Vin suicide-killed Ati?

Edited by Oversleep
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49 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Looking up for WoB about what happens with the Shard after Vessel is no longer there.

I found one:

But I'm fairly sure that Brandon also mentioned it could Splinter. Perhaps it was about Ruin and Preservation left after Vin suicide-killed Ati?

This is quite interesting, I've been sure of that for a long time but I've done quite a large search and..nothing. I've probably missed something because there are constant references from Sharders to this being WoB fact, even from several years back. I can find a lot of WoBs saying that the investiture will seek a holder or gain sentience. But not a single one saying that it will self-splinter. I'll keep hunting but this has me quite curious now, if it's just an old one I can't find, or if it's an example of Sharders being sure of something and repeating it for years. I should note that I certainly think, realmatically, that it would self-splinter. The closest I can find is this.

Quote

sufficientlyadvanced

It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?

Brandon Sanderson ()

It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.

Phantine

Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though.

Brandon Sanderson

Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...

Windrunner17

This is an awesome answer!

If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

Thanks!

Brandon Sanderson

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The Seons and the Skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial.

The main reason I can think he would link Kelsier with the Seons and Skaze, and spren with Roshar, must be to say the Preservation would have automatically splintered without Kelsier picking it up. But that's the closest I can find. Hopefully someone can trump me. I feel...uncomfortable having basic realmatic theory unconfirmed.

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On 13.03.2017 at 0:24 AM, Kurkistan said:

That sounds incorrect.

Okay, two pages back there was a doc linked. It doesn't seem to be on theoryland.

Quote

Questioner: With spikes, would you be able to actually transfer Breaths when they get to the other planets?

Brandon: So, spikes rip off pieces of the soul, and so Breaths are not going to be part of the soul.  You could maybe get a divine Breath, but I haven’t really decided on regular Breaths, they’re kind of stuck there in the Physical Realm, which is not something the spikes are dealing with.  Divine Breath potentially, because that’s like something that’s actually melding on to your soul

 

Edited by Oversleep
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Hi, I came across this particular post from another thread: 


He mentioned of a transcript being available (or being made soon). Any idea if it's available? If so, please do link it.
Thanks. :)

Edited by Cloak
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WoB was about comparing Nightblood to Shardblade. There was something about light smoke going up (Stormlight) in opposition to NIghtblood smoke and that Shardblades are unnaturaly light while Nightblood is unnaturale heavy.

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3 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

I was looking for a WoB that said that at the time of secret history Kelsier was basically a person-spren. Does anybody else remember seeing it? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Thanks

This one

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1182#3

Quote

QUESTION

So if I’m a Surgebinder and I have my own Cognitive entity with me, can I go off-world with that and [have] everything continue to work in exactly the same way? Because we’ve seen Cognitive entities that--

BRANDON SANDERSON

So...taking a Cognitive entity off-world is hard. So, Surgebinding, if you can find out how to make it happen, remember, the Investiture is keyed to Connection. This is why Kelsier is--Oh, sorry, spoilers! When a certain somebody [laughter] getting off Scadrial, because he basically was a spren by that point so…[laughter] So, yeah Surgebinding would work off planet, but you’d have to get the spren off first. It’s hard to do. Well, Cosmere-wide it’s not hard hard...You could learn how.

TAGS

spren ,  worldhopping ,  surgebinding

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looking for a WoB re: the number of possible metals there are. I seem to recall this coming recently, but can't find on theoryland and my reddit-fu is extremely lacking. I want to say Brandon talks about the possibilities being in the hundreds, due to all the god metals coming into play with alloys and alloys combining between god metals.

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