Andy92 Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 23 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Once we are going down that route, why a Kandra? Wouldn't a Mistwraith be preferable? I guess my idea behind the theory was that it would take a more experienced kandra to create an accurate lookalike of Kelsier's original body. Since Wax saw the scars on Kelsier's arms, it seems to be pretty well detailed. But you raise a good point. I'm not 100% sure how Kelsier could've inhabited the body while a kandra was currently using it...seems like it could potentially be possible, but that part of a bit iffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchy Savant Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 That's why he makes a good point with mistwraith. The flexibility of their anatomy plus kel's identiry/spiritual view should be enough to make an exact look alike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 I could see it working...would also explain how he's stayed alive for so many years in the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Itchy Savant said: That's why he makes a good point with mistwraith. The flexibility of their anatomy plus kel's identiry/spiritual view should be enough to make an exact look alike She. I'm a girl... I actually think Kell's long life is due to his soul knowing he died at 38. Dead people don't age. So his soul 'knows' he can't possibly be aging and therefore he doesn't age. Sort of the reverse of TLR... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theuntaintedchild Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 13 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Once we are going down that route, why a Kandra? Wouldn't a Mistwraith be preferable? Even better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 12 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: I actually think Kell's long life is due to his soul knowing he died at 38. Dead people don't age. So his soul 'knows' he can't possibly be aging and therefore he doesn't age. This is a pretty neat loophole if it actually works. Have an upvote. If we are going the "Blessing of Kelsier" route (gah, that name...) Kandra are essentially immortal as well, so double protection 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchy Savant Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 @Kingsdaughter613 Sorry! How did I not get that with the name and yeah that's a pretty nifty theory! @The One Who Connects is the survivors blessing any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) On 26/1/2017 at 5:26 AM, Kingsdaughter613 said: I actually think Kell's long life is due to his soul knowing he died at 38. Dead people don't age. So his soul 'knows' he can't possibly be aging and therefore he doesn't age. Sort of the reverse of TLR... yeah, I think it the same reason a Vessel's corpse doesn't turn into dust. Their Souls know they were no more Humans. I wrote a theory about this kind of Immortality in the context of Hoid, Returned and Inquisitor Edited January 27, 2017 by Yata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 I'll have to check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprtstr14 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 One question I have since it's pretty wells stated Kelsier is alive. Why would Kelsier leave the bands at the temple? Since Kelsier is alive, wouldn't those be very useful to have in whatever shenanigans he's pulling currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 If he did create them then he has all the powers and thus does not need them. He would probably have his own metalminds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 17 hours ago, sprtstr14 said: One question I have since it's pretty wells stated Kelsier is alive. Why would Kelsier leave the bands at the temple? Since Kelsier is alive, wouldn't those be very useful to have in whatever shenanigans he's pulling currently? My guess is for similar reasons to why he engineered his own death, in a very public fashion, in Final Empire. To give people something to work towards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan_rd Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 1/25/2017 at 6:24 PM, Itchy Savant said: Well I guess that's what I meant, the blessing would turn him into a Kanda, but because it's an identity blessing it would just staple Kell into an effectively immortal body As far as I know Mistwraith's didn't survive the Catecande (of course I could be wrong) and have not been mentioned in Alloy of Law series. I have wondered why the Lord Ruler didn't make himself a Kandra when he Ascended, thus eliminating the need to be dependent on Atium to store youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan_rd Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 2/13/2017 at 3:32 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said: If he did create them then he has all the powers and thus does not need them. He would probably have his own metalminds though. I am very curious what Sanderson is gonna do with Kelsier. Immortality caused all the Heralds to go crazy in one way or another, add Kel's laundry list of Powers and things would get boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Sheridan_rd said: As far as I know Mistwraith's didn't survive the Catecande (of course I could be wrong) and have not been mentioned in Alloy of Law series. I have wondered why the Lord Ruler didn't make himself a Kandra when he Ascended, thus eliminating the need to be dependent on Atium to store youth. Actually, they have been mentioned in The Bands of Mourning, chapter 12: Quote Together they approached the glowing building: a small, thatched structure that had a few weathered mistwraith statues sticking up from its mossy yard. The statues—made in the form of skeletons with skin pulled tight across the skulls—were traditionally thought to ward away the real things, as mistwraiths could be very territorial. Marashi suspected the creatures could tell the difference between real and stone members of their species—but of course, scientists claimed that the mistwraiths hadn't even survived the Catacendre in the first place. So the question was probably moot. This would suggest that you're correct in saying that they didn't survive. Of course, the scientists could be wrong, so who knows: they are at the very least, however, exceedingly rare. As for the Lord Ruler not making himself into a Kandra: I'm guessing that it's to do with him not wanting Ruin or any strong Allomancer (of which there would have been more than a few in the early days of the Final Empire) to be able to take control of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan_rd Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 I didn't think of that. Though a strong Copper Cloud would probably protect him from other Alcomancers, but I see why he wouldn't risk Ruin having a chance to control him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan_rd Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 And I suspect the Mistwraith's are gone because otherwise Harmony could have "blessed" new Kandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 30 minutes ago, Sheridan_rd said: I didn't think of that. Though a strong Copper Cloud would probably protect him from other Alcomancers, but I see why he wouldn't risk Ruin having a chance to control him. I didn't consider a Coppercloud: I'm not sure whether a Kandra using one would protect them from being controlled or not, to the best of my knowledge it's never been tested. I can see why it might protect him, though. The problem with this from the Lord Ruler's perspective would, of course, be that he'd have to be using a Coppercloud 100% of the time, and this would preclude him from ever Soothing or Rioting anyone. And then what if one of those early Allomancers were to discover duralumin, then they could potentially breach the Coppercloud. Another reason that the Lord Ruler might not have wanted to become a Kandra that's just occurred to me: he made every Feruchemist in existence (aside from himself of course) into a mistwraith or Kandra, and none of them retained their Feruchemical powers. He might have been able to find a way around this, of course, but it's possible that he couldn't have made himself into a Kandra and remained a Feruchemist. 27 minutes ago, Sheridan_rd said: And I suspect the Mistwraith's are gone because otherwise Harmony could have "blessed" new Kandra I don't think he could have: in order to make new Kandra you need Haemalurgic spikes, and I don't think that there's any way around creating new spikes that would avoid the stabby approach. During Brandon's Shadows of Self tour, I got the opportunity to ask him directly why they couldn't create new Kandra by spiking mistwraith with the spikes for dead Kandra. His response was that the main reason for this was mostly cultural: in other words, the Kandra don't like interacting with other Kandra's spikes. He did not say that they couldn't do this because there's no longer any mistwraith, or that there would be no need to do that because Harmony could just create new spikes out of thin air. Of course, since The Bands of Mourning contained that passage, the evidence now does indeed point to the mistwraith having gone extinct, but I like the idea that there could be some hidden away somewhere. By the way, please try not to double post. If there's something that you'd like to add after you've already posted, there is an edit button on your post which you can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan_rd Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, BlackYeti said: I don't think he could have: in order to make new Kandra you need Haemalurgic spikes, and I don't think that there's any way around creating new spikes that would avoid the stabby approach. During Brandon's Shadows of Self tour, I got the opportunity to ask him directly why they couldn't create new Kandra by spiking mistwraith with the spikes for dead Kandra. His response was that the main reason for this was mostly cultural: in other words, the Kandra don't like interacting with other Kandra's spikes. He did not say that they couldn't do this because there's no longer any mistwraith, or that there would be no need to do that because Harmony could just create new spikes out of thin air. Not out of thin air, the spikes would be made in the usual fashion. Harmony is half Ruin after all, and change is part of that intent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Sheridan_rd said: Not out of thin air, the spikes would be made in the usual fashion. Harmony is half Ruin after all, and change is part of that intent Yet Harmony and the Kandra seem to be opposed to the use of Haemalurgy (or at least the creation of new spikes): just look at how they consider Spooks book. I was under the impression that they weren't creating new blessings because doing so would involve killing people. Quote AGATE (15 OCTOBER 2008) I can guess two possible options for the Kandra. 1. God Sazed endowed the gift of presence on the now mistwraiths. 2. Some of the Kandra survived in the cave with the Terrisman and people of the city, along with the small mistwraiths, these are re-born with the spikes they pulled out during the resolution. I can imagine too that some Kandra on assignment may have hidden in the shelters with the rest of humanity. BRANDON SANDERSON (15 OCTOBER 2008) The Kandra. Yes, they live. The people were smart enough, eventually, to replace their spikes. (And there were a couple who were on assignment who made it to storage caches.) However, there will likely never be any more of them, since Hemalurgy is required to make them. They are now some of the few people who can communicate directly with Sazed, who—like Ruin—can whisper to people most easily when they are connected to him via spikes. With some speculation, you can probably guess what kind of roles the Kandra will end up playing in future books. KAIMIPONO On a broader level, is hemalurgy officially dead, then? Or is it still extant in some Ruin-free (but still messy) form? (If it's gone, is there any imbalance since Preservation's magic power is kept and Ruin's isn't?) BRANDON SANDERSON Is Hemalurgy dead? No, not at all. It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it. It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works. 3 Brandon says here that it is the requirement of Haemalurgy that is the reason there won't be any more Kandra. Implying that if more people knew how to create the blessings there might be more of them. Naturally, Harmony must know how to create them, which implies that he would be unwilling to do so. That WoB is, however, very old at this point, so it might not be that reliable. Nevertheless, I don't think it's something that Harmony would do. Edited February 28, 2017 by BlackYeti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostlander Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, BlackYeti said: Brandon says here that it is the requirement of Haemalurgy that is the reason there won't be any more Kandra. Implying that if more people knew how to create the blessings there might be more of them. Naturally, Harmony must know how to create them, which implies that he would be unwilling to do so. That WoB is, however, very old at this point, so it might not be that reliable. Nevertheless, I don't think it's something that Harmony would do Would Trell? If I were Trell, I'd find any remaining Mistwraiths and start spiking away. It seems too convenient to have the scientists say that the Mistwraiths were gone... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan_rd Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 7 hours ago, Frostlander said: Would Trell? If I were Trell, I'd find any remaining Mistwraiths and start spiking away. It seems too convenient to have the scientists say that the Mistwraiths were gone... Hmmm, the red eyed "creature" (probably Kandra) at end of Bands of Mourning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Edwarn's thoughts make it seem like the red-eyed whatsis are possessing the bodies they appear in, as he suspects the one he talks to was 'a beggar stolen off the street'.. Just because he refers to it as a 'Faceless Immortal' doesn't mean it has to be a Kandra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) On 2/27/2017 at 5:45 PM, Sheridan_rd said: I am very curious what Sanderson is gonna do with Kelsier. Immortality caused all the Heralds to go crazy in one way or another, add Kel's laundry list of Powers and things would get boring Actually, we don't know why the Heralds went crazy, but the biggest theory is it was due to trying to break the oath pact. Besides, 'crazy' is relative. Kalak seems to be paranoid, but not delusional so not crazy. Jezrian is an alcoholic and has been for centuries, so he may well have cognitive damage. But he isn't crazy. Shalash might be; her actions do indicate some psychosis; delusions of persecution possibly. Now spoilers: Spoiler Nail does not appear to be insane; he's just BADLY mistaken and desperate not to be (since that would mean he's just murdered a lot of innocents for nothing...) Ishar... that would be an excellent question... So we only have one of the Heralds we've met who have been around for the past millennia who actually seems to be insane. Then there are Returned; Warbreaker clearly is not mad and neither was VaraTreledees or Arsteel. They've ALL lived longer than Kell. The Ire are a LOT older than Kell and they aren't insane. Khriss is older than Kell and is also quite sane. So I'm not sure why you would think Kell would go insane? As for his powers... it really depends on the individual. Kell is a conman first and foremost. And he's planning to find information; he seemed to me to be thinking of being Scadrial's spy. Which means his powers are actually not as useful as you'd think. The opposite really; if he has to USE most of them his mission has already failed. Bronze and Zinc being an exception, as they would be useful for intelligence gathering - but only as long as people don't know he can use them! So a little pewter, careful taps of gold (drink a lot, but not getting drunk?), bendallow and Atium for disguise, copper and bronze, the rest are used very little. It wasn't Kelsier's powers that caused the rebellion, it was his manipulation of events. He didn't help save Scadrial with his powers; he did it by conning his enemies. The powers are nice, but without them he is still very dangerous. Actually, he's just as dangerous with and without. Kell is all about the con. The powers are a bonus. Edited March 5, 2017 by Kingsdaughter613 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan_rd Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Actually, we don't know why the Heralds went crazy, but the biggest theory is it was due to trying to break the oath pact. Besides, 'crazy' is relative. Kalak seems to be paranoid, but not delusional so not crazy. Jezrian is an alcoholic and has been for centuries, so he may well have cognitive damage. But he isn't crazy. Shalash might be; her actions do indicate some psychosis; delusions of persecution possibly. Now spoilers: Reveal hidden contents Nail does not appear to be insane; he's just BADLY mistaken and desperate not to be (since that would mean he's just murdered a lot of innocents for nothing...) Ishar... that would be an excellent question... So we only have one of the Heralds we've met who have been around for the past millennia who actually seems to be insane. Then there are Returned; Vasher clearly is not mad and neither was Denth or Arsteel. They've ALL lived longer than Kell. The Ire are a LOT older than Kell and they aren't insane. Khriss is older than Kell and is also quite sane. So I'm not sure why you would think Kell would go insane? As for his powers... it really depends on the individual. Kell is a conman first and foremost. And he's planning to find information; he seemed to me to be thinking of being Scadrial's spy. Which means his powers are actually not as useful as you'd think. Fair points all. Thanks for putting so much thought into your reply! I would disagree with Denth, he suffers from severe depression and self loathing. (He wanted to die) I agree with Khriss, which was my point. Her goal is to chronical the Cosmere, a focus to her long life. I wanted to know what grandiose mission would give Kel purpose in the centuries to come? Edited March 3, 2017 by Sheridan_rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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