theory Parshendi and spren

["Kale"adin]

Quote

"The spren betrayed us, it’s often felt. / Our minds are too close to their realm / That gives us our forms, but more is then / Demanded by the smartest spren, / We can’t provide what the humans lend, / Though broth are we, their meat is men." Song of Spren, 9th stanza

 

I was re-reading WOR and I came across this epigraph and found it very interesting. The part about minds being too close to the realm, which I assume is the cognitive realm, could imply that the parshendi have an ability similar to Lift's but possibly to a greater degree. The part about the spren wanting what the humans give them could refer to spren regaining their memories from bonding with humans after initially losing them when they first enter the Physical realm, and if the parshendi cannot help them regain their sentience then it is understandable they would want to bond with something that could. Any other ideas/ things I missed? I'm new to the whole theory thing

Quote

But it is not impossible to blend / Their Surges to ours in the end. / It has been promised and it can come. / Or do we understand the sum? / We questioned not if they can have us then, / But if we dare to have them again."

Song of Spren, 10th stanza

Also, Eshonai radiant confirmed???

[QuantumSpren]

Wyndle actually seems to have gone through less trauma and less memory loss then the other radiant spen we see due to Lift's uniqueness.

As for Eshonai, there is a wob that says Listeners can be radiant (though it never happened before) and I think she is planned to be a main pov character at some point so it seems likely she'll become a radiant.

 

[+Extesian]

9 minutes ago, QuantumSpren said:

Wyndle actually seems to have gone through less trauma and less memory loss then the other radiant spen we see due to Lift's uniqueness.

From memory we don't know how long ago Wyndle bonded Lift. Sul and Pattern had their memories advance with time, and rapidly add the Oaths were spoken. As Lift has gotten so far with the Oaths perhaps that's the reason Wyndle seems that way to us. Though I guess we've seen him prior to the second and third Oath and he seemed pretty got throughout those sequences.

[Krandacth]

2 hours ago, QuantumSpren said:

Wyndle actually seems to have gone through less trauma and less memory loss then the other radiant spen we see due to Lift's uniqueness.

Wyndle says in WoR that he has retained as much he has because of preparations carried out by The Ring (or whatever the governing body of his Spren-race is called). They chose Lift because of how and why she is unique, but apparently not because that would make it easier on Wyndle.

[Unodus]

11 hours ago, "Kale"adin said:

But it is not impossible to blend / Their Surges to ours in the end. / It has been promised and it can come. / Or do we understand the sum? / We questioned not if they can have us then, / But if we dare to have them again."

Eshonai radiant confirmed???

I was under the impression this line was specifically referring to the Voidform v:

"It has been promised" -> By Odium
"do we understand the sum?" -> They lose their free will
"if we dare to have them again." -> Parshendi broke away from the voidform 

 

 

As for "Our minds are too close to their realm", I believe this is connected to the parshendi drumming. (ie: how they can keep in time even when separated). The parallel between the Parshendi using drums to convey emotion and the spren being attracted to emotion is an interesting paralel- since (if I recall correctly), the drumming doesn't attract spren (correct me if I'm wrong). Perhaps the Parshendi share a similar sort of hive-mind to the Dysian Aimians by connecting through the cognitive plane.

 

["Kale"adin]

Quote

As for "Our minds are too close to their realm", I believe this is connected to the parshendi drumming.

That makes sense, but I can't understand how them being connected to the cognitive realm makes them feel the betrayal of the Spren.

[Mirdrim]

1 hour ago, "Kale"adin said:

That makes sense, but I can't understand how them being connected to the cognitive realm makes them feel the betrayal of the Spren.

I thought it possible that, as a lot of people have theorized, the Listeners were a race that was around before the Humans on Roshar, and if that's the case, it is likely that before the Spren ever imitated the Honorblades with the Nahel bond, they had bonded (less strongly) and/or interacted with the listeners.  When we're aware that the Listeners had been given forms by some kind of Spren, whether directly tied to Odium or Cultivation/Honor, we're not sure on the details.  I definitely think that the Rhythms that the Listeners hear have something to do with the Cognitive realm, and the comments Alethi make on the strangeness of their emotion, or lack thereof, indicate some sort of fundamental difference in cognition and interaction.

Perhaps the Listeners, due to being more strongly Cognitive beings themselves, cannot provide the Physical "sustenance" that a strongly Physical being such as a human provides, and as such, the "higher" Spren were not able to cross over as completely or successfully as with humans. Perhaps it is that the Listeners are able to bond more primal spren, such as Windspren, Flamespren, etc, similar to their trapping in the jewels for a fabrial, and due to the lack of Sapience, these more basic Spren could not provide significant surge control, rather providing changes in the physical form and capabilities, slight emotional changes, etc.

I have also wondered how much of it has to do with Stormfather, and other "god" Spren, as they openly name Stormfather a traitor in one of the songs, and if I'm not mistaken, Eshonai ruminates on this while heading out into the storm.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Mirdrim
elaborating Spren details

[nervousnerd]

I've thought that also since Listeners are more hive minded and close to the cognitive realm, they may rely more on spren to define who they are or how the feel while humans seem to have distinct ideas that are then common enough to take spren form (or at least change spren even without a Nahel bond).

[Lirin's hand]

" in the end. / It has been promised and it can come. / Or do we  "

OK, this just totally caught my eye, in light of Edgedancer.  Who promised?  Instead of a shard, could it be another native species?  In light of having found out who wrote the back cover blurbs, could those same folks have enough insight to predict this?  Could the Aimians actually be their old gods?

 

["Kale"adin]

One more thing is I remembered that when Eshonai becomes stormform there are more rhtyms to attune so perhaps this form comes from a different source than the others(almost definitely Odium) and affects their connection to the cognitive realm differently (Eshonai's personality change could be another part of this). But in that case, the other forms could be from either the natural Spren that existed before honor and cultivation arrived or from honor's and cultivation's spren.

[Erandeni]

16 hours ago, Lirin's hand said:

" in the end. / It has been promised and it can come. / Or do we  "

OK, this just totally caught my eye, in light of Edgedancer.  Who promised?  Instead of a shard, could it be another native species?  In light of having found out who wrote the back cover blurbs, could those same folks have enough insight to predict this?  Could the Aimians actually be their old gods?

 

Didn´t they have a form capable of seeing the future? Maybe the parshendi in that form saw spren bonding with parshendi and tell their people.

I think theirs old gods are the spren previous to the arrival of the Shards.

Btw, Rlain is now a squire of Kaladin, although he is not a Radiant, he has some of their power and with his own parshendi capacities, maybe this create something, not the whole "sum" because he is not a Knight but maybe some effect.