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Kelsier worldhopper


Steeldancer

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I expect he and Spook have done some trolling off world. No real basis for this other than Kelsier wants to discover new worlds and hasn't been seen recently on Scadrial, and Spook stepped down after 100 years of rule, yet no one spoke of his death. 

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Chances are fairly strong that Kelsier has not gone off-Scadrial yet. As a cognitive shadow, he is in fact tied to it, so leaving Scadrial would be fairly difficult. Not impossible, there are workarounds as we know of other cognitive shadows which have managed to, but I'm not sure he has been able to achieve that level of understanding of realmatics, nor would he want to. There's too much still to be done on Scadrial. 

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12 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Chances are fairly strong that Kelsier has not gone off-Scadrial yet. As a cognitive shadow, he is in fact tied to it, so leaving Scadrial would be fairly difficult. Not impossible, there are workarounds as we know of other cognitive shadows which have managed to, but I'm not sure he has been able to achieve that level of understanding of realmatics, nor would he want to. There's too much still to be done on Scadrial. 

Initially I was thinking this too, but maybe his new connection to the Physical Realm (however it works) really would allow him to leave. I agree that he could have stayed willingly though.

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I think it's unlikely from what we know of Kelsier that will stay of Scadrial all the time, but I don't think we've seen him off world as of yet. Without his ties to the physical realm he couldn't leave, and even with ties to the physical, he has a hermalurgic spike, and I think that would draw just a tiny bit of attention to who he is, so I doubt we have seen him as of yet, plus, he seems to be doing his own thing on Scadrial at the moment. I think it is highly likely that he will, but I think most of his story is going to be focused on Scadrial.

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2 hours ago, Eki said:

Initially I was thinking this too, but maybe his new connection to the Physical Realm (however it works) really would allow him to leave. I agree that he could have stayed willingly though.

I don't think even tying his cognitive shadow back to a physical body would allow him to leave since at his base he's still a cognitive shadow connected to Scadrial.

Warbreaker spoilers

Spoiler

Returned, who are also cognitive shadows tied to a physical body, would also have difficulty leaving Nalthis. The Five Scholars likely required some workarounds to make it to Roshar.

 

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  • 1 month later...

I highly doubt it. Possibly in the future he could 'hack the system' like Vasher or Denth but it's highly difficult for a Cognitive Shadow.

So i doubt he's been spotted anywhere more oddly I'm surprised nobody on Scadrial has seen him either. He seems pretty conspicuous him and Marsh both.

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Some people on Scadrial may have seen him. Saze implies that Kell is not around which could hint at him being off world. He's had a few centuries to figure out how to do it, after all. At which point we get to the spike, which he would have to disguise. Which is why I suggested blind men, one eyed ones, or illusions. the first two are an excuse to cover it; the latter simply avoids the issue.

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  • 1 month later...

Obviously we can't say for sure yet where Kelsier has been, but...we're talking about the Survivor of Death, who, apparently, has access to the powers of a fullborn, strong Connection to Ruin and vast knowledge of Hemalurgy, a magic system that has been identified both in-book and by WoB to be likely to have consequences to the Cosmere at large in the future.

When you can steal/store/compound the powers, abilities, and attributes of other cosmere inhabitants, it would almost seem weird to not compulsively explore other worlds.  The last time we saw Kelsier, he was still mostly sane...but even at his best, he was a bit of a psychopath who literally enjoyed murdering people.  I'd like to think he isn't hunting and harvesting other world-hoppers, but I honestly don't think we can rule it out yet.

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Where do you get the impression that cognitive shadows are bound to their system? The Returned have travelled to Roshar, Vasher/Zahel currently resides there.

The rest I put in spoiler tags: Spoilers for Mistborn: SH, BoM

Spoiler

In Mistborn: Secret History Kelsier technically leaves Scadrial when he travels to the Ire Outpost, a place Preservation couldn't go himself due to his Connection to Scadrial. He feels a tug on his soul, but he uses this as a means for orientation. Might be he would not be able to go much further without help, but he knows of Hemalurgy, so he can grant himself the gift of Feruchemy (if he hasn't done it yet, I think he is already Fullborn at the end of BoM). Storing his Connection to Scadrial in a metalmind, he would be able to roam the Cognitive Realm as he likes.

Travelling cognitive shadows seem to be even a threat, since the Ire guard themselves from Threnodian shades (the Heliodor fabrial which didn't react to Kelsier). So if barely sentient shades from Threnody are able to roam in the Cognitive Realm, there is no way that should be impossible for Kelsier.

So where is he? At the time of Mistborn Era 2 I suspect he is still meddling around on Scadrial. Way too interesting times to leave. Further I would suspect him to avoid Hoid, if he gets to choose.

 

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7 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Where do you get the impression that cognitive shadows are bound to their system? The Returned have travelled to Roshar, Vasher/Zahel currently resides there.

The rest I put in spoiler tags: Spoilers for Mistborn: SH, BoM

  Hide contents
Quote

 

In Mistborn: Secret History Kelsier technically leaves Scadrial when he travels to the Ire Outpost, a place Preservation couldn't go himself due to his Connection to Scadrial. He feels a tug on his soul, but he uses this as a means for orientation. Might be he would not be able to go much further without help, but he knows of Hemalurgy, so he can grant himself the gift of Feruchemy (if he hasn't done it yet, I think he is already Fullborn at the end of BoM). Storing his Connection to Scadrial in a metalmind, he would be able to roam the Cognitive Realm as he likes.

Travelling cognitive shadows seem to be even a threat, since the Ire guard themselves from Threnodian shades (the Heliodor fabrial which didn't react to Kelsier). So if barely sentient shades from Threnody are able to roam in the Cognitive Realm, there is no way that should be impossible for Kelsier.

So where is he? At the time of Mistborn Era 2 I suspect he is still meddling around on Scadrial. Way too interesting times to leave. Further I would suspect him to avoid Hoid, if he gets to choose.

 

We got a WoB on this late last year 

Quote

QUESTION

Have we seen cameos of Heralds on other Shardworlds?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Heralds are tied to the system by the magic that permeates them. They could not leave. It’s part of the magic. Some would call them Cognitive Shadows, right? Whether they are or not. ‘Cognitive Shadow’ is a very ambiguous term in the Cosmere. It means, basically your soul-- Investiture replaced your soul, and permeated your soul, and your soul continues to exist, but you are usually Invested with something, that’s tied, and you’re basically like pure Investiture then. You’re tied to the thing you’re Connected to. Most of the things that you’re gonna see like that, traveling is going to be very difficult, unless you know how to do it. You have seen people do it.

QUESTION

Who?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Vasher.

QUESTION

Sure, sure.

BRANDON SANDERSON

You have seen people do it.

So yeah its not a thing they can naturally do but obviously there are workarounds. 

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8 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Where do you get the impression that cognitive shadows are bound to their system? The Returned have travelled to Roshar, Vasher/Zahel currently resides there.

WoB says that cognitive shadows have issues leaving their system. There's several WoB on the subject, but this is the one I had on hand. Secret History spoilers:

Spoiler

INTERVIEW: Feb 17th, 2016

QUESTION

Okay, so when Kelsier is in the-- Which Realm is he in?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He’s in the Cognitive Realm.

QUESTION

Is he seeing people from other worlds or is he--

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, he meets some people who are traveling but Cognitive Realm is location dependent. He is on the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and the people he runs into there-- until he kind of travels off into space, which is where he finds the fortress.

QUESTION

So even though he’s tied to Scadrial could he go to the Cognitive Realm of other worlds?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He would have trouble getting to another planet, being a Cognitive shadow like he was.

QUESTION

So is there some particular thing that somebody would need to have to be able to move between the realms?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A body is helpful.

QUESTION

That does make sense.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Depends on what their ties are and things like that. Not always, but yeah.

A body apparently helps, but there's still issues involved. I think it's entirely possible for Kelsier to work this out though.

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Well, for Kelsier an easy solution would be to store his Connection to Scadrial in a metalmind.

Spoiler

Another Connection sphere like the one he stole from the Ire could also help to establish a new Connection to another planet. No real problems there...

That still does not explain, why the Ire are afraid of Threnody shades coming to or attacking their stronghold. They seem to be a bit paranoid about that. But perhaps it helps that they are barely sentient and so don't have a real connection to Threnody. I think that is unlikely though, since sentience is a cognitive thing while Connection is spiritual.

Oh, additionally I read the WoB from @8bitBob

Quote

QUESTION

So is there some particular thing that somebody would need to have to be able to move between the realms?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A body is helpful.

more like that having a body would help to move between realms, that is switching from Cognitive to Physical realm. So to travel to another planet in the physical realm, you should have a body. The shades on Threnody seem to be able to do this without a body. If the shades the Ire talk about are the same we see in SfSitFoH.

That however doesn't mean that a shade cannot move to another planet's Cognitive realm. For this he just needs to get rid of his Connection - which is easy with Feruchemy but probably not for the Heralds. Their powers are granted by the Honorblades after all. The only two I could imagine granting those abilities are the ones emulated by the Elsecallers and perhaps the Lightweavers.

So, Kelsier - if we are not evilly mislead - has got another body quite soon after the Catacendre, he got himself some feruchemy (to create Medallions in the first place) and whatever else. Questions arising are: How do the hemalurgic spikes influence his personality? Does he have enough spikes for Harmony to take him over, if he goes too rampart?

In Secret History he seemed intruiged with the idea of other planets. If the spikes didn't change him much and Harmony cannot hold him back, he would be messing in the cosmere. You know, there is always another secret.

Sorry, I am not able to talk about that without spoilers...perhaps the topic should be tagged.

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5 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Oh, additionally I read the WoB ... more like that having a body would help to move between realms, that is switching from Cognitive to Physical realm. So to travel to another planet in the physical realm, you should have a body.

Spoiler

That's one way to interpret it, but every WoB I've seen on the subject seems to imply that Shadows are tied to their system in both realms, and the questioner specifically referred to travelling to other planets' cognitive realms. It would be a lot of very consistent doublespeak to trick us on this matter if it were not the case.

Just want to reiterate that I think it's totally possible for Kelsier to figure this out, and I think he could probably travel to other planets if he wanted to as of Alloy of Law. Whether or not he would want to or actually did is another matter, of which I hold no strong opinions.

As for whether or not shades from Threnody are doing this, we don't actually know they're from Threnody (to my knowledge.) There's at least one entire city in the cognitive realm, so it's possible that they have their own version of violent shades too.

 

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I think it would be very easy for Kelseir to worldhop since worldhoppers hop by way of the Cognitive Realm. The difficult thing for Kelseir would be to manifest in the Physical Realm once he got to the planet he wanted to be on.

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7 minutes ago, Figberts said:

I think it would be very easy for Kelseir to worldhop since worldhoppers hop by way of the Cognitive Realm. The difficult thing for Kelseir would be to manifest in the Physical Realm once he got to the planet he wanted to be on.

True.  Conventional wisdom is that he either needs a new physical body that he can somehow possess using hemalurgy, or, and more likely in my opinion, he needs to re-establish his connection to the Physical Realm so he can transition between realms using a Perpindicularity like other worldhoppers.  Presumably he's already done one of these things.

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17 minutes ago, hwiles said:

True.  Conventional wisdom is that he either needs a new physical body that he can somehow possess using hemalurgy, or, and more likely in my opinion, he needs to re-establish his connection to the Physical Realm so he can transition between realms using a Perpindicularity like other worldhoppers.  Presumably he's already done one of these things.

Assuming of course that even after he reclaims a body of some kind, that tugging he experienced when attempting to find the IRE doesn't rear it's ugly head again.  

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2 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

Assuming of course that even after he reclaims a body of some kind, that tugging he experienced when attempting to find the IRE doesn't rear it's ugly head again.  

Well, as previous posters have pointed out, between hemalurgy and feruchemy, removing his Connection to Scadrial (either permanently or temporarily) should be a fairly trivial process.

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