KR Symbol Clockwise Theory

[wildbuc117]

I posted this on r/stormlight_archive but didn't get many responses and was wondering if someone knew of a WOB or something that could confirm or deny this theory, and let us be honest you guys are where I should have started anyways.

 

I submit, though I have little proof, that Knights Radiant progress their abilities in a clockwise formation from the Knights Radiant Symbol.

Kaladin (Windrunners): Gains control over Adhesion before Gravitation.

Shallan (Lightweavers): Illumination and soon to be Transformation.

Jasnah (Elsecallers): Performs Transformation before Transportation (though we don't know yet which she gained more control over before the other).

Lyft (Edgedancers): Abrasion then Progression.

Skybreaker Journeymen: Have control over Gravitation first... at least as I don't think we have seen Division yet.

This does not mean that they don't have some control over the "second" ability initially as we saw Kaladin use gravitation to attract arrows to his hands and away from him in bridge runs unconsciously and Shallan used Transformation before she works Illumination at end of TWOK. I only postulate that they gain more control over the first before the second.

 

Additionally, as someone pointed out to me, each order has one main surge.  The second surge in my clockwise theory,

Dalinar purpose is to unite and his second surge is Adhesion; 

Kaladin is one with the wind and Sylphrena is a cousin to the windsprens, Gravitation;

Jasnah wants to gain true knowledge and to do so one must be willing to travel to new places, Transportation;

Renarin sees into the future, Illuminating it;

Shallan has to admit deep personal truths forcing her to change how she sees things (eh this one might need to be rethought), Transformation;

Lyft, though she doesn't want to change herself, brings change to those around her (sidenote: I think that this is her curse) making those around her Progress and accept changes in the world.

Until I know what Division entails I can't really make a guess for the Skybreakers yet, though obviously something to do with upholding the law.

 

(This part has nothing to do with this post but if someone could point me in the right direction... Just re-listened to TWOK and noticed that when Hoid is speaking about what people view as important he mentions that he asked scholars once, are these the 5 Scholars from Warbreaker?)

[The One Who Connects]

1 hour ago, wildbuc117 said:

I submit, though I have little proof, that Knights Radiant progress their abilities in a clockwise formation from the Knights Radiant Symbol.

[...]

This does not mean that they don't have some control over the "second" ability initially as we saw Kaladin use gravitation to attract arrows to his hands.

[..]

Additionally, as someone pointed out to me, each order has one main surge.

[...]

Until I know what Division entails I can't really make a guess for the Skybreakers yet, though obviously something to do with upholding the law.

(This part has nothing to do with this post but if someone could point me in the right direction... Just re-listened to TWOK and noticed that when Hoid is speaking about what people view as important he mentions that he asked scholars once, are these the 5 Scholars from Warbreaker?)

In the absence of proper teachers (former Radiants), it is entirely possible that they follow a natural progression.

The reverse lashing has been speculated to be a combination of both his surges, rather than just one. It doesn't change the point it was used on too much, but it's a thing that could be argued.

Where did we learn that the Orders have a "main surge"? This is the first that I have ever seen anyone even imply that on these forums.

Division metaphor for Skybreakers is dividing innocent from guilty, as used in the in-world Words of Radiance.

Last point, I personally doubt it. Unless Hoid was somehow involved in starting the Manywar, I don't see why he would hang around on Nalthis to chat up the scholars. This may be a.. mistranslation on Hoid's part, or some other place has scholars. Hoid gets around the Cosmere.

[Blightsong]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Last point, I personally doubt it. Unless Hoid was somehow involved in starting the Manywar, I don't see why he would hang around on Nalthis to chat up the scholars. This may be a.. mistranslation on Hoid's part, or some other place has scholars. Hoid gets around the Cosmere.

We recently got WoB that the scholars have some level of fame throughout the worldhopping community for being pioneers of exploring Realmatics, and they got around the Cosmere themselves, so I wouldn't be too surprised if Hoid had ran into them.

 

As for the theory, I've seen others like it before but I've always thought that we have too small a sample size for me to be convinced of this just yet, but I think with what we do know it's a reasonable theory. The thing that turns me away the most is that Kaladin had effectively mastered Gravitation while only on his 2nd oath, while Shallan was technically on her 3rd during most of WoR and still couldn't Soulcast a dead stick (although a possible world hopping one at that /s). It just seems discordant to me. I think this just comes down to practice, and availability of use. It seems to me that Shallan hasn't mastered transformation because it is a hard thing to practice compared to lightweaving. Similarly, Lift didn't have many dead friends around to resurrect a bunch (although she did use regrowth to grow some plants, so she was using that surge in some capacity). It also seems to me that this kind of thing would have been revealed to us by now, one way or another, but I don't know. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[wildbuc117]

Thanks y'all!!!  

I also was thinking about it and other than Renarin, the two Truthwatchers we have meet so far in the series have been involved with orphans.  I wonder if protecting unwanted children has something to do with protecting "our" future or something like that.  It is apparent I need to do some more digging though

[Argent]

On 1/5/2017 at 3:24 PM, wildbuc117 said:

I wonder if protecting unwanted children has something to do with protecting "our" future or something like that.

I think that's too specific. All the other Oaths we've seen have been much more categorical in nature, so I would expect something similar from the Truthwatchers.

[emailanimal]

18 hours ago, Argent said:

I think that's too specific. All the other Oaths we've seen have been much more categorical in nature, so I would expect something similar from the Truthwatchers.

My theory, based solely on Renarin's behavior at the end of WoR (both before, during and after the discovery of Urithuru) is that Truthwatchers' Oaths sound something like

"I will see what others don't"

and

"I will see even if it is something no one wants to know about"

(I am paraphrasing here trying to keep up with the format for the known Second and Third Oaths, so the actual text may be different)

We know that the Oaths themselves often do not have immediate relationship with the surges granted ("I will remember those who are forgotten" vs. the ability to slide on the ground free of friction, anyone?).

Edgedance spoiler

Spoiler

The behavior of a certain someone in Edgedancer suggests that "I will see what others don't" is actually an appropriate Oath for her. We literally see her trying to do this in the book.

 

[sh3nahz]

i always put down their skill level on mastering a particular surge as based on individual differences. that even within  the same order an individual at surge binding  excelled at different aspects of the surges and specific skills. Maybe during the time of the KR there was some kind of academy/school/apprenticeship in place where groups of surge binders honed their skills to a specific level but in the timeframe of the books so far its purely down a persons natural aptitude towards a certain surge and the environment they are in. I think that maybe this will help the new surgebinders more than hinder them as they do not have set rules to follow or tutorlage into a particular surge they can explore the cognitive aspect of surgebinding and be more creative and make new discoveries into what their abilities can do because they dont have a order of people before them to tell them it isn't possible. However i do think there is some kind of minimal competency to which all surgebinders of a order reach with both surges its just that the oaths gives access to certain tools, bindings, blades, plates, abilities ect its just down to that particular individual to make use of that.