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Gyorn in Emperor's Soul


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       While reading Arcanum Unbounded, I reread the Emperor's Soul and I noticed something that I think is an important clue. The Emperor's Soul takes place in a region far away that was never mentioned by any characters. Even Gyorn Hrathen seemed unaware to their presence. He frequently spoke of how their god Jaddeth wouldn't be satisfied until the whole world was Derethi, and that seemed to only include converting Arelon and Teod. So, it can be assumed that they didn't know of the other empire at the time. While it has been stated that the Emperor's Soul takes place "shortly" after Elantris, at least to the point that technology hasn't had time to change. I think it takes place after the unreleased Elantris sequel, since that is only supposed to be 15 years after the first.

       So, back to Emperor's Soul. Near the end, when she is running to make her escape, Shai runs into a "southern ambassador in red armor." As we all know, red armor is what the Derethi Gyorns wear. Now, it was never a secret that, at this point in time, the two empires were aware of each other. So, with what we know of Gyorns, they only show up to make some mass conversion (as with Hrathen at the Duladel Republic and with the Arelon and Teoish Monarchies). Either Wyrn has decided to expand his horizons by converting others before eliminating Teod and Arelon or he already has destroyed them. We may see more of this in the coming sequel, which we won't see for several years.

       Now, let's talk about another thing. Shai is there to Forge a new soul for Emperor Ashravan after assassins from the Glory Faction killed the patron from the Heritage Faction. I believe that the Glory Faction was sought out by the visiting Gyron and tempted to convert to Shu-Dereth in return for the throne. Shai only ever saw a tiny part of the plots due to being confined for so long and being away from court politics. Plus, with the Arbiters having little knowledge of Shu-Dereth, they would be oblivious to the conquering nature of the religion. So, it stands to reason that, do to our limited view of the palace, more is going on than meets the eye here.

       So, lets take stock of the theory

1) The Emperor's Soul takes place after the unreleased Elantris Sequel

2) The Svordish Empire still stands powerful in Opelon

3) Either Arelon and Teod are conquered or are being ignored for the time being

4) The ambassador in red armor is a Derethi Gyron

5) The Gyorn was working with the Glory Faction and was aided them in the assassination of Ashravan

       So yeah, that's my theory

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3 hours ago, The Unhallowed said:

2) The Svordish Empire still stands powerful in Opelon

There was a Svordish Empire?  Svorden was conquered by the Fjordell Empire as of the book Elantris (though it did maintain a strong national identity and language).  Did you mean the Fjordell Empire?

The Emperor's Soul takes place in the Rose Empire, which from the 10th Anniversary of Elantris maps we can see is (likely) northwest of Teod (though the map refers to this region as "Rose Barbarians," so perhaps it isn't an Empire yet).  That a Derethi Gyorn is there implies to me that the threats posed by Arelon and Teod have been dealt with, as they seemed really important to Jaddeth and Wyrn's vision of the world.

That said, it makes sense that The Emperor's Soul would take place after a lot of important things have transpired on Opelon/Sycla after the events of Elantris.  Now that Raoden and crew have reignited the powers of Elantris, it seems strange that they would fall to Wyrn so quickly, but then again, the Derethi seem to have a lot of hidden power up their sleeves (you know, other than creepy, twisted bones).

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Well Shari is from MaiPon, and Uncle Kiin's children admin Sarene are all familiar with MaiPon eating sticks, so they must not be that unaware of them.

Khriss says in her UA essay that the three empires of Sel are aware, but pretend each other are only "blips" on the map, hence "rose barbarians"

 

I'm not sure what to think of the theory, but it does seem likely that the Gyorn would have been involved in the assassination plot. 

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Yeah, I'm sure the higher ups in the different places really did know about the other Empires all along, but as Khriss says, they kind of pretend the others are insignificant (at least to their subjects) because they don't really want to deal with them.

And it is likely that the revival of Elantris would make Wyrn look for allies in other places. I doubt they would try attacking Elantris, especially so soon after their previous failed assault. But they would be wary. Whether or not they were involved in the assassination attempt... hard to say. It's possible.

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4 hours ago, FiveLate said:

What about an assassination that put a new emperor on the throne and a smaller empire between the two to ummm share out the pieces of....

It's possible but Fjordel has a monastery to create skilled assassins.

I will be a little disappointed to find them so uncapable. they were send to kill an Emperor, I imagine they will choose the top among their assassins...and the murder's outcome is quite lame if this the top Fjordel may use

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  • 2 weeks later...

Want there a WOB about how after Elantris, Wyrn decided that they had been interpreting the prophecies wrong and only everyone east of the mountains needs to convert for Jaddeth to return. This quote is from October 2004 Elantris Group Questions though, so it could have changed by now.

On 19/12/2016 at 2:42 AM, AnanasSpren said:

The whole conqeuring of Opelon is mainly to do with Wyrn's statements in interpreting his 'visions'

Quote

A book that takes place ten years after the events of ELANTRIS. It would occur in the capitol city of Fjorden, and would star Kiin's children as viewpoint characters along with a Seon viewpoint character. The plot of the book: Wyrn has declared that Jaddeth, the Derethi God, is going to finally return. (A new interpretation of the scriptures says that he'll return when everyone east of the mountains converts, so they don't have to worry about Teod and Arelon.) Kiin's family, ambassadors to the Fjordell state, has to deal with the chaos of this announcement, and investigate the truth behind the Dakhor magic.

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This kinda shatters the whole Glory faction theory, but what is the Heritage faction was the one who killed the emperor? I know it's stretch but let's say one of the arbiters didn't like the amount of power that Frava was getting, and so he/she just offed the emperor, knowing that Shai could Forge his soul, but that it would be (roughly) clean slate. The Gyron could have know about all of this, and nudged said arbiter to kill the emperor.

Too much?

 

Edited by borkson
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9 minutes ago, borkson said:

Too much?

Yes, too much. They have not a great Forgery's knowledge and if they try to obtain informations, they will discover how quite impossible was the task.

It's not a plan any sane person would make.

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2 minutes ago, Yata said:

Yes, too much. They have not a great Forgery's knowledge and if they try to obtain informations, they will discover how quite impossible was the task.

It's not a plan any sane person would make.

Got it, thanks. Going over it does make it sound pretty crazy. ^_^

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On 18/12/2016 at 2:25 AM, Yata said:

It's possible but Fjordel has a monastery to create skilled assassins.

I will be a little disappointed to find them so uncapable. they were send to kill an Emperor, I imagine they will choose the top among their assassins...and the murder's outcome is quite lame if this the top Fjordel may use

Eh, they put a crossbow bolt through his head and ruined his brain, I'd say it was a pretty good attempt.

They may not know about the local healing abilities and even if they do, they could think "Great! Either we kill him outright or they heal his head and they're left with a vegetable that they eventually need to kill themselves after he's found out, *and* the Heritage faction get discredited for covering it up and ruling for themselves."

No way they could have known that it'd be possible for Shai to Forge a soul

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1 hour ago, Leviathan said:

No way they could have known that it'd be possible for Shai to Forge a soul

Given Wyrn's vision in Elantris, I'd say it's entirely possible that they could know that.

But our options on that front are they knew and didn't do it, they knew and someone tried to tempt fate, or Wryn didn't see fit to tell them about that.

Or he didn't get a vision about Shai's ability, which is just as likely.

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