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Oathbringer at 100%


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52 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

Didn't WoK cover had Dalinar and Eshonai, though? 

WoKCoverCrop.jpg

Personally, I'd vote to have Adolin on the cover, mostly because it'd be nice to have someone in a proper Shardplate grace it.

People say that that is Eshonai and Dalinar, but im pretty sure thats the scene when Dalinar saves Kaladin and hus bridge crew from a group of parshendi archers. Eshonai does not use a spear and while Kaladin didnt have one here it makes more sense that its him.

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37 minutes ago, Blightsong said:

People say that that is Eshonai and Dalinar, but im pretty sure thats the scene when Dalinar saves Kaladin and hus bridge crew from a group of parshendi archers. Eshonai does not use a spear and while Kaladin didnt have one here it makes more sense that its him.

Even though I love that cover I think after WOR and seeing shardplate from Shallan dwarings we need a better representation of them on a cover soldier in armor looks too skinny makes you think he's just a regular infantry light eyes. Shardplate is much more  heavy duty lookregular small.jpging

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5 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

It would make for an amazing epic emotional scean. Dalinar wanting ro save his son but being hand tied due to the laws. I can already feel the lump in my throat. Hahah I still dont want it ro happen at all but it would be some amazing writting if it happened 

Yeah, I'm already imagining it in my head. Adolin about to get hanged and Dalinar and Shallan screaming and trying to save him while some guards hold them back. I love Adolin, but I really want this to happen. I don't know why, but it seems like the right thing to do with the story, for me, at least.

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1 hour ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Yeah, I'm already imagining it in my head. Adolin about to get hanged and Dalinar and Shallan screaming and trying to save him while some guards hold them back. I love Adolin, but I really want this to happen. I don't know why, but it seems like the right thing to do with the story, for me, at least.

If such scene ever plays out, I think it likely Dalinar would merely watch, having been convinced his son's death is the sacrifice he has to make to ensure his unity, firmly believing the Way of Kings condemns him. It would only be after, after they remove the body that Dalinar would come to grip with his own actions: he has allowed a boy he loved to die to avoid facing the fact he might be wrong about things and that not all answers are found in old books.

Shallan, I believe, would not watch. I do not feel she is attached enough to Adolin to truly be unbalanced by his death. Renarin would never forgive his father for not having stopped it. Or he might very well be the one to jump to the rescue: I'd be nice for him to actually succeed in one of those desperate moments where he just jumps in.

Adolin dying would be a sad affair, but I feel Dalinar's love towards his son has been so distorted by his own expectations and his rigidity, I don't think it wouldn't write down with him trying to actually stop it. Just my two cents anyway. I don't think this is where the story is going, but if we are to speculate on alternate story arcs, this is how I would see this one going.

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2 hours ago, maxal said:

If such scene ever plays out, I think it likely Dalinar would merely watch, having been convinced his son's death is the sacrifice he has to make to ensure his unity, firmly believing the Way of Kings condemns him. It would only be after, after they remove the body that Dalinar would come to grip with his own actions: he has allowed a boy he loved to die to avoid facing the fact he might be wrong about things and that not all answers are found in old books.

Shallan, I believe, would not watch. I do not feel she is attached enough to Adolin to truly be unbalanced by his death. Renarin would never forgive his father for not having stopped it. Or he might very well be the one to jump to the rescue: I'd be nice for him to actually succeed in one of those desperate moments where he just jumps in.

Adolin dying would be a sad affair, but I feel Dalinar's love towards his son has been so distorted by his own expectations and his rigidity, I don't think it wouldn't write down with him trying to actually stop it. Just my two cents anyway. I don't   this is where the story is going, but if we are to speculate on alternate story arcs, this is how I would see this one going.

I can't agree with you anymore with what you think Dalinar would do. Mabe Adolin could escape an live in exile with his shardplate. But I dont think Adolin will be executed I think the murderer will not be solved and he will have to live with the guilt of murdering somebody

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1 hour ago, bdoble97 said:

I can't agree with you anymore with what you think Dalinar would do. Mabe Adolin could escape an live in exile with his shardplate. But I dont think Adolin will be executed I think the murderer will not be solved and he will have to live with the guilt of murdering somebody

There are many alternate story arcs to Adolin, which might have been why we spent so much time talking about them. While exile is certainly still on the table, I think it a less likely possibility. Brandon has already announced Szeth's flashbacks would feature an "exile story arc" via his exile from Shinovar: it might be redundant if he were to use a similar arc for Adolin. There is also the fact Adolin, as a character, mostly exists through third person's perspective: he can't go in exile because he just doesn't have a strong enough independent voice to carry it out unless the author intends for his exile to happen outside the story, just as Jasnah's Shadesmar adventures happened being closed doors. This being said, if he does go into exile, I doubt he'd be carrying his Plate with him: too heavy, too hard to carry.

As for the murder, I do think it will be solved rather early on. Readers have put a great deal lot of stock into the aftermath of Sadeas's death, but going into Oathbringer, clues are it gets resolve very quickly without major consequences. 

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13 hours ago, maxal said:

There are many alternate story arcs to Adolin, which might have been why we spent so much time talking about them. While exile is certainly still on the table, I think it a less likely possibility. Brandon has already announced Szeth's flashbacks would feature an "exile story arc" via his exile from Shinovar: it might be redundant if he were to use a similar arc for Adolin. There is also the fact Adolin, as a character, mostly exists through third person's perspective: he can't go in exile because he just doesn't have a strong enough independent voice to carry it out unless the author intends for his exile to happen outside the story, just as Jasnah's Shadesmar adventures happened being closed doors. This being said, if he does go into exile, I doubt he'd be carrying his Plate with him: too heavy, too hard to carry.

As for the murder, I do think it will be solved rather early on. Readers have put a great deal lot of stock into the aftermath of Sadeas's death, but going into Oathbringer, clues are it gets resolve very quickly without major consequences. 

I hope the murder isn't solved quickly in the next book I would love there to be a story arc of somebody trying to investigate it. The more I read your comments about Adloin and you thinking that there will be less Adloin in the OB do you think they ever could be a novella for Adolin. I  really think he is a fan favorite.  On a side note I spoke to thw artist doing my Adolin commission he told me he will have a rough sketch done today can't wait hahha

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8 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

I hope the murder isn't solved quickly in the next book I would love there to be a story arc of somebody trying to investigate it. The more I read your comments about Adloin and you thinking that there will be less Adloin in the OB do you think they ever could be a novella for Adolin. I  really think he is a fan favorite.  On a side note I spoke to thw artist doing my Adolin commission he told me he will have a rough sketch done today can't wait hahha

Trying to gauge where Adolin is going with any level of precision as information we do have is often incomplete and/or contradictory.

In the case of Oathbringer, Brandon has said there would be about "as much Adolin" as there was in previous books. I find it a very subjective statement which could be interpreted in various ways. Did he mean as much as in WoK or as in WoR? Did he mean word count or number of chapters? This isn't clear. What we do know though is Adolin doesn't have viewpoints until the very end of the book which means all of his word count will happen in the last 100K words of the book (approximately). We also know the structure of book 3 which calls out for Adolin's only contribution to happen within the same part as 5 other characters are having theirs... This part is said to be about 80K. This is where I find the information is contradictory: on one side, Brandon says there is "as much Adolin" as in previous books, but he says his viewpoints occur in the shortest part within the book which he shares with many others... I mean... There is only so many ways 80K can be split in 6 and I foresee no way where Adolin will have "as much words" as in WoR. It is thus I cannot reconcile Brandon's own words with the book structure he has posted: something's gotta give. You just can't fit the square into the cylinder.

Trying to figure it all out has turned out being a rather frustrating exercise as the more I dig, the less positive I am about Adolin's personal contribution to the story. Brandon assures he is well aware of how popular Adolin's character is, he does know his story arc is one of the most anticipated and yet he offers a planning where the character has basically no role to play except for a very small one clustered at the end of the book. I can't speak for others, but as a "well-known" Adolin fan, I was disappointed with this announcement as I felt it was contradictory. My perspective is book 3 is unlikely to feature much of Adolin except perhaps through third person's perspective which I do not consider "equivalent" to real page time. 

So there we are: it is either we trust Brandon when he says he has taken care of Adolin, as a character, in a fair manner or we prepare for the real eventuality it might be much less than many anticipated/expected. The problem is... I do not trust. Not that easily and this is where I have become rather unpopular. I need more than a vague reassurance stating Adolin has a role within the story. I need something more concrete, more solid than what I have gotten so far. Without it, I am afraid I cannot have a great deal lot of faith into Adolin's role now I have been made aware of the book planning. 

You are, of course, free to make your own conclusions. I tend to plan for the worst-case because I haven't been given enough arguments it will not happen. As for a novella, I think we cannot presume to know what Brandon might or might not write, but if you ask for my personal thoughts, I'd say it is unlikely. After almost three years within this fandom, I must admit I have never seen the author express any true vivid interest into the character. That and the fact he said he didn't consider Adolin needed a backstory nor many viewpoints as he didn't have secretive personality which made less interesting, as a character. This WoB truly killed the Adolin love, really.

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I would like for the investigation of the murder to take at least half of the book, and I want consequences to happen. I would like even more if Dalinar was carrying out the investigation, him figuring out what Adolin did would be a very emotional scene. If there are no consequences, the danger that the characters are going through will not be real anymore, it would just be like: "Oh no, Kaladin's in danger. He didn't kill off Adolin when he could have, why the Damnation would he kill off Kaladin?".

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19 minutes ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

I would like for the investigation of the murder to take at least half of the book, and I want consequences to happen. I would like even more if Dalinar was carrying out the investigation, him figuring out what Adolin did would be a very emotional scene. If there are no consequences, the danger that the characters are going through will not be real anymore, it would just be like: "Oh no, Kaladin's in danger. He didn't kill off Adolin when he could have, why the Damnation would he kill off Kaladin?".

To be fair, I personally never feared for Kaladin which might be why his last sequences within the story didn't resonated very strongly with me, as a reader. Adolin though, I always fear he might die: each time he fights, I am thinking "This is it. He'll bite the dust just now.". I thought he was goner so many times now... but Kaladin? Never. So no giving any significant consequences to Adolin certainly will not make be fear less for other characters as those consequences do not have to be "death". In fact, we could argue anything else would be more interesting than death...

As for the investigation, I am unsure what I would and would not like to see. It could be wrap up rather quickly and still remain an interesting story arc as it would have opened up a box of Pandora thus leading into a bigger more compelling story arc than having our characters not talk to each other and secretly wonder what to do. It could also last for a while and offer a delicious suspense where we constantly wonder when Adolin will be caught and how. Truly, it could go both ways and remain a satisfying story arc: it all depends on the execution and for this, I do trust Brandon. He knows his craft. 

I think there will be consequences, but I also think they aren't the ones we have been thinking about. It will be more... subtle. I think.

So all in all, I do not mind how long Brandon keeps the suspense, I just want Adolin to be a featured character within this story, a complete one with proper depth and a story to call his own.

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1 hour ago, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

I would like for the investigation of the murder to take at least half of the book, and I want consequences to happen. I would like even more if Dalinar was carrying out the investigation, him figuring out what Adolin did would be a very emotional scene. If there are no consequences, the danger that the characters are going through will not be real anymore, it would just be like: "Oh no, Kaladin's in danger. He didn't kill off Adolin when he could have, why the Damnation would he kill off Kaladin?".

The idea of Dalinar doing the the investigation into the murder would be pretty intense. But I think he will be too busy with being a bond Smith

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On 12/12/2016 at 7:34 PM, bdoble97 said:

The idea of Dalinar doing the the investigation into the murder would be pretty intense. But I think he will be too busy with being a bond Smith

Which is why he would probably pass off most of the investigation to Adolin, like he did with the broken leather strap in WoK. Adolin heading up the search for Sadeas' killer would make an interesting story line.

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11 hours ago, IceBaka said:

Which is why he would probably pass off most of the investigation to Adolin, like he did with the broken leather strap in WoK. Adolin heading up the search for Sadeas' killer would make an interesting story line.

Hmmmm it would be a interesting story line. But  I would love to see a new detective type character doing investigation could be some intense scenes with him and Adolin.  A pov with detective could be a really interesting Sub plot.

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15 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

Hmmmm it would be a interesting story line. But  I would love to see a new detective type character doing investigation could be some intense scenes with him and Adolin.  A pov with detective could be a really interesting Sub plot.

Or backfire, if a Skybreaker Initiate+ happens to be among the people at Urithiru.  This sort of event would NOT go undiscovered for long, I suspect, particularly given the location.

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14 hours ago, dvoraen said:

Or backfire, if a Skybreaker Initiate+ happens to be among the people at Urithiru.  This sort of event would NOT go undiscovered for long, I suspect, particularly given the location.

So do you think the truth will found out early in the book. And the fall out with play out throught out thw remainder of the book 

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9 hours ago, bdoble97 said:

So do you think the truth will found out early in the book. And the fall out with play out throught out thw remainder of the book 

I think Sadeas being found dead will be discovered early enough, but the fallout is too difficult to predict.  I wouldn't be surprised if Shallan is the one who uncovers the truth, though.

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How could investigation look like?

From what we know, only things left by Adoli were markings on walls which he destroyed using Shardblade. If someone notice it, and make connection to Shardblade its one trace.

What else can point to Adolin directly?
There were a lot people in corridors as there were more then one discovery party. As far as we know there is no modern criminology.
So in end it when we look at what people there can know it will look that Sadeas was killed by normal weapon, then some unknown markings on wall were destroyed (maybe by using Shardblade if this can be detected). Markings could be from either one of several parties discovering place, or some other unknown markings.

Seems not much rly to determine who did it - one body, some destroyed marking, nothing else. Unless new Radiants like Renarian or Shallan can provide some additional input then I dont see how it can be solved fast or implicate anyone specific as murderer.

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3 hours ago, Windrunner said:

 Another possibility I've seen is that in his haste he left his side knife behind.

Didn't he use it to scratch off the markings he made on the wall?  Fairl certain it said tht somewhere.  But the cuffs missing are definitely noticeable.  Cant really blame it on the fighting, considering by the time we get Adolins POV, he says that something like a week has gone by, IIRC.

Edited by The Ninja Yodeler
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On December 12, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

I would like for the investigation of the murder to take at least half of the book, and I want consequences to happen. I would like even more if Dalinar was carrying out the investigation, him figuring out what Adolin did would be a very emotional scene. If there are no consequences, the danger that the characters are going through will not be real anymore, it would just be like: "Oh no, Kaladin's in danger. He didn't kill off Adolin when he could have, why the Damnation would he kill off Kaladin?".

What if Ranarin, being a truth watcher, witnessed it.  He is very adept at creeping in the shadows.  I think he had something on his conscience later.

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Brandon just posted a snippet on Reddit in honor of his birthday that confirms a Rock POV.  This could be a one-time phenomenon, much like the Sadeas POV in WoR.  But this makes me wonder whether on not Rock is now one of the characters on the famous chart.

Edited by Walker
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What could an investigation looks like? Here are various thoughts, in no specific order.

1) The Clothing

Adolin is known to always be perfectly dressed, impeccably groomed at all occasions except while being in the middle of warfare. Even then, he angst over people seeing him with his uncombed, messy, sweaty hair. I have no doubt that, after his encounter with Sadeas, Adolin looks completely disheveled. If his hair are known to have an unruly quality to them, his clothes are always... perfect. Now, he is missing his cuff and after tumbling down on the ground with Sadeas, what is left of his uniform ought to be rumbled, even if slightly. Adolin doesn't walk in front of people in rumbled clothes. This just does not happen.

Will anyone notice? 

Even if no one notices, there is still the matter of disposing of the ruined uniform. Adolin obviously does not do his own laundry, so we might expect a servant comes in every dy to pick up his dirty clothes and wash them. Is she going to be surprised when there is no dirty uniform to pick up on the morrow? And where is Adolin going to stash his anyway? Burn him down? Hide it? If he were a servant, it'd be easy to just toss it away, but he is a Prince. He comes with guards, he doesn't go anywhere unnoticed, except when he purposefully gets lost in scouting parties because he can't process all that's happened to him.

Will the clothing give him away?

2) The Shardblade marks

Adolin has been marking his progress in the exploration of the Tower on the walls. After killing Sadeas, he "erases" his own mark with his Blade. The fact a Blade has been used won't be an issue: the killer could have used Oathbringer. It however indicate the murderer quite surely was a member of those scouting party. Any meticulous investigator would quickly figure out "Prince Adolin's" scouting party has been around. Any interrogation would quickly have someone point out how Prince Adolin has been known to wander off, on his own. 

The marks are also unlikely to be consistent with themselves. Adolin erased the one close to the murder scene, but did he backtrack on his steps to erase the ones leading him to this very spot? I doubt so. Also, once he left and went to pretend he was in another area, did he left a plausible trail of mark to explain how he wandered from point A to point B? 

It wouldn't require extensive forensic skills to promptly figure out Prince Adolin does not have a valid alibi as to his whereabouts at the time of the murder. The trail would also point out to him, directly. It merely requires anyone following those up and make a story out of them. Quite easy. 

3) The Knife

The unknown, the weapon of murder. Where is it? If we read carefully Adolin's last POV, no clear mention is made of what he did with the knife He might have taken it out with him or he might have left it there. He was dazed. It seems obvious he wasn't in possession of his complete mental capacities. Has he overlooked the weapon in his haste to not get blood onto this clothes? Has he thought of his clothes, the marks on the wall, Oathbringer only to forget about the most obvious, the knife? 

I think it is quite likely he did. 

Providing he did, would it give him away? Quite certainly. We saw from Dalinar's flashbacks how his father's knife had been engraved in a specific way. No doubt Adolin's is engraved in similar ways, no doubt it is distinctive enough to be traced back to him, directly.

Just with these three points, I think there are more than enough clues leading to Adolin then we truly need. A qualify investigator would likely figure it out, not to mention, the brutal murder of a Highprince implies a culprit whom isn't afraid of a full Shardbearer, a culprit with a motive and means... There aren't many of those and even less of those who happened to be physically in the right spot to do it, whom aren't acquainted for...

I thus sincerely doubt the investigation would take much page time. Brandon isn't know to allow story arcs to dwindle too long unless they are used to fuel inner character development, such as what he does with Kaladin. The absence of Adolin's POV within the next book implies no such internal arcs which means there isn't likely to be a valid reason to drag this arc longer than needed. I have no idea of the timeline for next book, but I'd be surprised if Adolin isn't found out in Part 1. Then he likely disappears until his very small role happens towards the end.

I am not sure there will be a fall arc so to speak for Adolin.

5 hours ago, Walker said:

Brandon just posted a snippet on Reddit in honor of his birthday that confirms a Rock POV.  This could be a one-time phenomenon, much like the Sadeas POV in WoR.  But this makes me wonder whether on not Rock is now one of the characters on the famous chart.

He also said, in the past, other bridgemen would get an occasional POV such as Teft got in WoR. He mentioned Rock among those. I am thus incline to think this merely is an occasional POV. Besides, we pretty much know who fills in the chart.

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@maxal you have probably right...probably the only way for Adolin to be not catched is to exploit the Highprince's division and the caos of moving the Warcamps to Urithuru created. There will be tons of anomalies in that days, almost everything is an anomaly.

PS: I never see your face and I know you are a girl, but for a while this will be my mental image of yourself:

 

Edited by Yata
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