What has Brandon done to the Earth?

[Kaymyth]

On 12/7/2016 at 9:49 AM, William Holz said:

Brandon has a habit that I particularly enjoy...create a world with a well thought out integrated rule system, fast forward a little bit, and then break the poor little dear and play in the wreckage.

Heh.  This sounds like phrasing I would use.

Really, when it comes down to it, Brandon has flat-out said that Earth is not Cosmere.  In my mind, that means that Earth does not and never has existed in the universe that contains the Cosmere.

Granted, I hold to a silly little headcanon where Adonalsium was actually a Time Lord artifact that was designed as a creation engine and, like most Gallifreyan technology, was self-aware enough to decide it wanted to go off and do its own thing and created the Cosmere worlds.  But I also acknowledge that I am completely, utterly, and mind-bendingly wrong.

Sometimes being wrong is more fun.

 

[William Holz]

15 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

Granted, I hold to a silly little headcanon where Adonalsium was actually a Time Lord artifact that was designed as a creation engine and, like most Gallifreyan technology, was self-aware enough to decide it wanted to go off and do its own thing and created the Cosmere worlds. 

This is one of the best headcanons I've read in months.  Mind if I steal it in my brain?

15 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

Heh.  This sounds like phrasing I would use.

Great minds think alike (and so do we!)

15 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

Really, when it comes down to it, Brandon has flat-out said that Earth is not Cosmere.  In my mind, that means that Earth does not and never has existed in the universe that contains the Cosmere.

Oh, I've read all the quotes on the topic I could find.  And so far every one sounds EXACTLY like what I'd say if I didn't want to reveal that a shattered Earth was the origins of the Cosmere and our home is long gone.  Not saying I'm right...but I haven't seen him say anything that firmly contradicts that, and a few things that hint at there having been an Earth sometime in the past (especially Shinovar!)

15 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

But I also acknowledge that I am completely, utterly, and mind-bendingly wrong.

Sometimes being wrong is more fun.

It is!  And I may be WAY off.  In fact I honestly doubt that the Reckoners universe is connected at all, that's more idle speculation on my part.  But it's FUN speculation.

Besides, I'm the sort of guy who makes up deliberately wrong theories when I decide something lets me down.  Instead of pretending the Midi-chlorians don't exist, I make them awesome and turn 'a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away' into a warning.  I fake-think the Game of Thrones takes place on the ruins of the Forest Moon of Endor and Battlestar Galactica is the last humans fleeing the Star Wars galaxy after the Droid Revolution (because they're jerks to droids! OMG!).  

Sometimes deliberately disrespecting the creators and letting their creations take on a life of their own is far more fun, right?

But with the Exodus/Earth/Cosmere bit, I'm actually thinking Sanderson might be very clever and a teensey bit devious.

Edited December 29, 2016 by William Holz

[Kaymyth]

11 minutes ago, William Holz said:

This is one of the best headcanons I've read in months.  Mind if I steal it in my brain?

Great minds think alike (and so do we!)

Oh, I've read all the quotes on the topic I could find.  And so far every one sounds EXACTLY like what I'd say if I didn't want to reveal that a shattered Earth was the origins of the Cosmere and our home is long gone.  Not saying I'm right...but I haven't seen him say anything that firmly contradicts that, and a few things that hint at there having been an Earth sometime in the past (especially Shinovar!)

It is!  And I may be WAY off.  In fact I honestly doubt that the Reckoners universe is connected at all, that's more idle speculation on my part.  But it's FUN speculation.

Besides, I'm the sort of guy who makes up deliberately wrong theories when I decide something lets me down.  Instead of pretending the Midi-chlorians don't exist, I make them awesome and turn 'a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away' into a warning.  I fake-think the Game of Thrones takes place on the ruins of the Forest Moon of Endor and Battlestar Galactica is the last humans fleeing the Star Wars galaxy after the Droid Revolution (because they're jerks to droids! OMG!).  

Sometimes deliberately disrespecting the creators and letting their creations take on a life of their own is far more fun, right?

But with the Exodus/Earth/Cosmere bit, I'm actually thinking Sanderson might be very clever and a teensey bit devious.

Heh.  Go for it.  It's patently ridiculous in a way that makes entirely too much sense.

Anyway...I generally err on the side of taking Brandon at his word, and the tone I've inferred from these WoBs feel to me more of a "I thought about it, but it just really didn't work" vibe, rather than a "ha-ha I am sneaky" vibe. 

[William Holz]

4 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

Anyway...I generally err on the side of taking Brandon at his word, and the tone I've inferred from these WoBs feel to me more of a "I thought about it, but it just really didn't work" vibe, rather than a "ha-ha I am sneaky" vibe. 

But has he said definitively the Earth is not the origin of the Cosmere?  Every answer I can find is either.

1) The Recokers isn't part of the Cosmere (which I totally buy, though the end of Calamity makes me wonder occasionally)

2) The Earth isn't IN the Cosmere.

Which, if I had nuked the Earth to make Cosmere, are pretty much what I'd be saying too while being completely honest and direct.  The Earth and Cosmere couldn't exist simultaneously at all in fact.

Is there an answer anywhere that says definitively that Hoid was never on Earth for example?  I've been looking all day (and looked a bunch a while ago) and can't find a thing that hits the question directly.

[Kaymyth]

7 minutes ago, William Holz said:

But has he said definitively the Earth is not the origin of the Cosmere?  Every answer I can find is either.

1) The Recokers isn't part of the Cosmere (which I totally buy, though the end of Calamity makes me wonder occasionally)

2) The Earth isn't IN the Cosmere.

Which, if I had nuked the Earth to make Cosmere, are pretty much what I'd be saying too while being completely honest and direct.  The Earth and Cosmere couldn't exist simultaneously at all in fact.

Is there an answer anywhere that says definitively that Hoid was never on Earth for example?  I've been looking all day (and looked a bunch a while ago) and can't find a thing that hits the question directly.

Sounds like you have a specific question to ask him the next time you make it to a signing.

[William Holz]

2 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

Sounds like you have a specific question to ask him the next time you make it to a signing.

I DO!  

Well, several, but I'm trying to narrow it down a bit.  

What I REALLY want to do is spend a week theorycrafting with him.  Love that dude's brain.

[Yata]

3 hours ago, William Holz said:

As somebody who is very into biology, that level of convergent evolution doesn't make sense.  Sure, it works for a lazy author, but Sanderson has shown that he's capable of creating things that don't specifically reference Earth with little effort.

And why reference them in such detail?  And AFTER creating things like the chull, yet on the same world?  Chickens weren't previously associated with Yolen, were they?  

Sure, I could see other authors being that lazy, but not Sanderson.  And I'm still not seeing anything close to 'validation' other than 'I can rationalize this'.  

I see a LOT more that contradicts the 'there never was an Earth' theory than I do that contradicts the 'Exodus' one.

Yolen has not yet a released book, so it's hard to say what is on yolen and what is not.
Of course Scadrial flora and fauna mimic the Yolish ones...and it's not convergent evolution. Scadrial's Gods actually copied the species they know from they homeland (human included).

Also the Convergent evolution fails when you have an actual god who popolate the universe and way to move from planet to planet and export/spread species (for example the Listeners as almost all the flora/fauna of Roshar were deliberated create by Adonalsium).

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, William Holz said:

But has he said definitively the Earth is not the origin of the Cosmere?  Every answer I can find is either.

1) The Recokers isn't part of the Cosmere (which I totally buy, though the end of Calamity makes me wonder occasionally)

2) The Earth isn't IN the Cosmere.

Which, if I had nuked the Earth to make Cosmere, are pretty much what I'd be saying too while being completely honest and direct.  The Earth and Cosmere couldn't exist simultaneously at all in fact.

Is there an answer anywhere that says definitively that Hoid was never on Earth for example?  I've been looking all day (and looked a bunch a while ago) and can't find a thing that hits the question directly.

Yes, he hadn't said so, but based on what he's saying, it seems to be strongly indicating that he intends no connection between.

[Eki]

4 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

For instance, strawberries and chickens are actual animals in Shinovar

haaaang on a minute!

 

4 hours ago, William Holz said:

I don't find that very convincing.  Brandon has demonstrated that he's fully capable of creating animals that are clearly NOT Earth-related.  It looks more like he's deliberately planting seeds to me, especially with how specific some of the references are.

In Shinovar's case, I think they are deliberate, yes, but as a way of showing us that Shinovar is different, because it has all these species we think of as "normal". It may also be a clue to some connection to other planets (like Yolen) within the Cosmere. But not Earth.

[king of nowhere]

Sanderson is capable of creating a completely different ecosystem, but he can't do that for every book. and especially not on a short book where he doesn't have the space to describe the new ecosystem. in fact, he did it only on roshar because the stormlight archive books are his longest. also, there is the sense of familiarity in the readers; will readers easily familiarize with a book describind something completely alien?

So, that's it. yolen was very earth-like for convenience. other planets were populated by shards, who used yolen as model. earth doesn't enter into it. I've never liked the "it's all our same reality" trope, I think it's been done to death, and anyway it rarely holds up to close scrutiny, or it ages poorly - for example, the wheel of time implied that the first age ended with a nuclear war between america and russia, which was all good during the cold war when the first book was written, but is now much less likely; not to mention that with nuclear disarming they still got enough to deal plenty of damage, but nowhere near as many as they had during the peak of the nuclear race; it doesn't seem enough to justify the end of an age.

Edited December 30, 2016 by king of nowhere

[mr42]

When did he actually say the Cosmere is a dwarf galaxy?

I understood it this way that the Cosmere is a whole universe but the books just take place in a dwarf galaxy.

Edited March 20, 2017 by mr42
Minor spelling stuff

[Hemalurgic Headshot]

Thus, Earth is Cosmere.

[Farnsworth]

Something I found that I hope you will appreciate.

 

[Kaymyth]

I mean when it really comes down to it, are we so egocentric as a people that we can't stand to conceive of a fantasy universe in which our world doesn't exist?