Bavadin's Gender

[PallonianFire]

3 minutes ago, theuntaintedchild said:

Do we have any evidence of the Heralds actually using investiture.

We've seen Nalan Surgebind, so no, the Heralds are not Bavadin. Besides, we have WoB that the Heralds are native to Roshar.

[theuntaintedchild]

2 minutes ago, theuntaintedchild said:

Do we have any evidence of the Heralds actually using investiture. Not the Knights Radiant but the Heralds themselves. I know it's not likely but could the Heralds be Bavadin?

 

On second thought there's too much that interferes with this theory. Accepting that the WoK Prologue isn't a lie, The Heralds are clearly separate entities. 

[theuntaintedchild]

1 minute ago, PallonianFire said:

We've seen Nalan Surgebind, so no, the Heralds are not Bavadin. Besides, we have WoB that the Heralds are native to Roshar.

Just curious, when did Nalan surgebind? I'm not doubting you I just want to know if I missed a new power in action or if it was one of the ones we've seen previously. 

[Bromo_Sapien]

10 hours ago, PallonianFire said:

A pantheon of Bavadin.

A pantheon of Bavadins? Bavadi? Bacardi? I'm a blue abadee abadie?

 

Just now, theuntaintedchild said:

Just curious, when did Nalan surgebind? I'm not doubting you I just want to know if I missed a new power in action or if it was one of the ones we've seen previously. 

We see it in AU.

 

Spoiler

At the end of Edgedancer, he takes off into the sky and flies.

 

Could Bavadin be the Ones Above? A) We only see one dead body reportedly from the Ones Above in Sixth of the Dusk. B ) They are crafty in so far as they work around the "rule" about not interfering with the technologically inferior First world. C) Expanding their reach and sewing chaos sounds a lot like what Bavadin is trying to do with the religions and what the OA are doing on First.

[theuntaintedchild]

Just now, Bromo_Sapien said:

A pantheon of Bavadins? Bavadi? Bacardi? I'm a blue abadee abadie?

 

We see it in AU.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

At the end of Edgedancer, he takes off into the sky and flies.

 

Could Bavadin be the Ones Above? A) We only see one dead body reportedly from the Ones Above in Sixth of the Dusk. B ) They are crafty in so far as they work around the "rule" about not interfering with the technologically inferior First world. C) Expanding their reach and sewing chaos sounds a lot like what Bavadin is trying to do with the religions and what the OA are doing on First.

Thank you so much for adding the spoiler tag and informing me when we see it. I've been avoiding spoilers for AU like crazy. I'm trying to read it in order despite the fact that Edgedancer is the only one of the stories I haven't read yet. You my friend are to be lauded for your persistence in keeping up with protocol. Are you a StoneWarden?

[PallonianFire]

32 minutes ago, Bromo_Sapien said:

A pantheon of Bavadins? Bavadi? Bacardi? I'm a blue abadee abadie?

I prefer Bavadin as both the singular and the plural lol (though Bavadi is also amusing).

[Amanuensis]

3 hours ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

Is Brandon being really clever here? Given the theory of Invested sunlight...

I do think he was being a bit clever  that being said, I also think it's a red herring. Considering that Bavadin's many faces manifest as clouds, and that both the Dayside and Darkside have two different magics despite facing two different stars, I'm pretty confident it's the atmosphere that's invested, not the stars.

[Oversleep]

4 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Considering that Bavadin's many faces manifest as clouds

Wait, we know now what these faces are? Completely missed that.

4 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

both the Dayside and Darkside have two different magics despite facing two different stars

Wait, Darkside has magic? I thought they've got only technology. I mean, they didn't believe in Sand Mastery and Taldain essay speaks only of Sand Mastery.

[Amanuensis]

27 minutes ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait, we know now what these faces are? Completely missed that.

Wait, Darkside has magic? I thought they've got only technology. I mean, they didn't believe in Sand Mastery and Taldain essay speaks only of Sand Mastery.

Well, in my mind the two correlate way too perfectly. Bavadin, the Shard of Taldain, portrays herself as different godlike personas. We see a bunch of faces in the clouds, which Brandon has remarked were intentional of him, although he didn't mean for them to be so obvious. I reckon that this is literally Autonomy looking down on the events unfolding.

Hm. I may have accidently referenced something from the prose, which for all we know isn't canon... my bad. For some reason I thought that was either common knowledge or in the Graphic Novel. Sorry ladies and gents, I can go ahead and edit that out if necessary.

As for the essay, Sand Masters don't consider what they do magic. To them, it's a natural part of their culture, and that attitude is actually reflected in the GN, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Spoolofwhool]

22 minutes ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

Wait, we know now what these faces are? Completely missed that.

Wait, Darkside has magic? I thought they've got only technology. I mean, they didn't believe in Sand Mastery and Taldain essay speaks only of Sand Mastery.

I'm guessing prose things which shouldn't be discussed outside of its subforum.

[Kingsdaughter613]

Dark side magic is referenced twice. The Graphic novel flaps and intro mention it. So, I believe, do Brandon's comments. In AU Khriss mentions that they used to think to think only Dayside was invested but now know that that is inaccurate. She does not discuss it further.

personally, I think all of Khriss' essays feel incomplete, as though we are only seeing the introductions to a much larger piece. For some of them it feels like I could attach the AU essays to the related Ars Arcanum and it would flow together as one work.

[Amanuensis]

I couldn't find the reference on the GN's flaps, but I did look over the Taldain Essay again, and saw this:

Spoiler

"For years we assumed that our Shard, Autonomy, had Invested only Dayside, through the sunlight itself. We know now it is not as simple as this, though the mechanism is best explained under those assumptions. The Investiture beats down from the sky, and is absorbed by a microflora that grows like a lichen on the surface of the sand, giving it its brilliant white color (when fully Invested) or deep blackness (when the Investiture is depleted).

Giving water to the tiny plant causes a chain reaction of sudden grwoth, energy, and Realmic transition. Certain people can control this reaction, using the water from their own bodies to forge a brief Cognitive bond."

So as Khriss says, things are not as simple as their assumptions involving Dayside and sunlight. I seem to recall people theorizing that the lichen received the Investiture via sunlight during the photosynthesis process, but I actually think the Investiture is in the atmosphere, maybe piggybacking off of the water vapor (which could also be how Autonomy maintains the world's climate on both ends), and also why Sand Masters need to use their own water to form a Cognitive connection. Those facts combined make it pretty clear to me, compared to any other explanation.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Jazzy Kandra]

On 11/28/2016 at 7:52 PM, winter devotion said:

What if Bavadin is genderfluid? I mean... I know he's kinda said he doesn't really want to write LGBT characters until he's sure he doesn't mess it up, but, it's pretty cool to think about! 

Also, worshipping an entire pantheon of Bavadin? That's kinda hilarious. 

 

Wait. I just realized something. 

GUYS. 

LIGHTSONG IS BAVADIN. Or... Bavadin is Lightsong. 

Seeing as Bavadin won't really be a P.O.V. character for awhile, and won't show up on scene until at least the Lost Metal (I also believe that the new Windrunner is, in fact, the guy who's going to be Drehy's boyfriend...since said boyfriend is supposed to be introduced in Oathbringer...and yeah), I don't believe that Bavadin being genderfluid or non-binary is off the table. She might be, she might not..., but if she is a dragon...shapeshifters like kandra and dragons may have quite a different perspective on this than their human counterparts (for one, their species probably never believed in a gender binary in the first place...)

There are others who can explain this better than me, though.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Kandra-in-disguise

[emailanimal]

43 minutes ago, Kandra-in-disguise said:

shapeshifters like kandra

Kandra essentially puts "fluid" in "genderfluid".

[soyperson]

1 hour ago, Kandra-in-disguise said:

Seeing as Bavadin won't really be a P.O.V. character for awhile, and won't show up on scene until at least the Lost Metal (I also believe that the new Windrunner is, in fact, the guy who's going to be Drehy's boyfriend...since said boyfriend is supposed to be introduced in Oathbringer...and yeah), I don't believe that Bavadin being genderfluid or non-binary is off the table. She might be, she might not..., but if she is a dragon...shapeshifters like kandra and dragons may have quite a different perspective on this than their human counterparts (for one, their species probably never believed in a gender binary in the first place...)

There are others who can explain this better than me, though.

I want Drehy's-boyfriend-the-Windrunner and I want it now. 

You're right about the shapeshifter thing, I don't think our labels can apply to beings who change their forms more often than they change their pants. 

[Oversleep]

3 hours ago, Kandra-in-disguise said:

Potential spoiler:

Spoiler

I also believe that the new Windrunner

Is this... is this spoiler from Edgedancer?

I thought Edgedancer is confined to its subforum!

[Amanuensis]

I've read Edgedancer, and there was no Windrunner in it, so no. I have absolutely no idea where that's coming from, actually.

[Argent]

32 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I've read Edgedancer, and there was no Windrunner in it, so no. I have absolutely no idea where that's coming from, actually.

Maybe @Kandra-in-disguise can tell us

[Pagerunner]

36 minutes ago, Ookla the Sunrise Watcher said:

Is this... is this spoiler from Edgedancer?

I thought Edgedancer is confined to its subforum!

Per the general spoiler policy, (and the AU-specific spoiler policy)Edgedancer info is allowed untagged in its subforum and in Cosmere Theories, and hidden in other book subforums.  So, for the second part of your statement, Edgedancer spoilers are allowed out here in the open in here. If you're trying to avoid them, you might want to stay out of Cosmere Theories, 'cause I know I've sure been letting them fly.

But, yeah, there's no info about Drehy in there. It seems to me like that poster is just shipping Kaladin and Drehy, since he's the only Windrunner we know of.

[Djarskublar]

I feel like there was some WoB that we would get another Windrunner saying Oaths in Oathbringer.

[Pagerunner]

3 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

I feel like there was some WoB that we would get another Windrunner saying Oaths in Oathbringer.

You feel right. (That came out wrong.) Not sure if it's Oathbringer, or another Stormlight book, though.

[Zmann966]

On 11/28/2016 at 7:31 AM, Pagerunner said:

• On Scadrial, Trell obviously is a big one. But maybe some of the other religions, the ones Sazed spoke of, were from Bavadin, as well. Although the system is dishardic, for a long period of time (at least 2000 years) one Shard was trapped and the other had a ruined mind. She could have had plenty of opportunities to sneak in and plant new religions, so maybe the original Trell was her, as well. (If Kenton Street has an in-universe explanation, then Bavadin may have incorporated him into one of her Final Empire Scadrian religions.)

"They saw the stars as the Thousand Eyes of Trell watching them." [Final Empire, Chapter 9]
"They had worshipped the stars, had called them the Thousand Eyes of their god, Trell, watching them." [Hero of Ages, Chapter 82]


Suddenly, actually having a thousand eyes is not so weird. If you have multiple personas (enough to fill a pantheon) it doesn't seem so odd...

[Jazzy Kandra]

Wait, what did I say? rust. I must have said something wrong. I really really didn't mean to say Edgedancer? Did I say Edgedancer?

Oh, right. Sorry, I thought that...Wow, I'll just have to cite every single WoB in the future. *rolls eyes* But please, let's shame me for forgetting to do that...D;

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Kandra-in-disguise

[emailanimal]

Ok, so this may have deserved a separate post, but I'll just put it there for now. Doing a scan of the interview database.  Got this one:

 

Quote

QUESTION

Can you give me any information about Trell?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It read: "Trell has been many things over the eons...

 

Case closed?

 

 

[Argent]

5 hours ago, emailanimal said:

Case closed?

Not quite, but I think this makes the evidence for Trell = Bavadin very compelling.