emailanimal

Bavadin's Gender

75 posts in this topic

So.... Is he being serious and Bavadin is legion and possibly non-human?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Spoolofwhool said:

So.... Is he being serious and Bavadin is legion and possibly non-human?

Taking this at face value, I think this may have more to do with her powers as the Shard of Autonomy, or at least  with how she chooses to exercise those powers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, emailanimal said:

Taking this at face value, I think this may have more to do with her powers as the Shard of Autonomy, or at least  with how she chooses to exercise those powers.

Creating a number of autonomous clones to act on multiple fronts? Interesting thought. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that answers one question while sumultaneously creating lots more. Classic Brandon. :D

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Creating a number of autonomous clones to act on multiple fronts? Interesting thought. 

I don't think she is creating clones. I think it is more like shapeshifting if she needs to present herself to mere mortals.  The exact wording is "personas", so Bavadin impersonates different deities.   Imagine for example that the entire Norse Panteon is basically Loki pretending to be Thor, Odin, Freya and so on as needed. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

This means that Bavadin is still alive! Yay!

Judging by the WoB above, Bavadin is one of the most active Shards out there, and also possibly quite the micromanager.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Random brainfart: what if Hoid is actually Bavadin? I mean, have we ever seen the two of them in the same room?

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, randuir said:

Random brainfart: what if Hoid is actually Bavadin? I mean, have we ever seen the two of them in the same room?

In that case, Hoid might also be Batman :D

I believe it was stated that Hoid doesn't hold a Shard, so he can't be Bavadin

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy falafel chouta, Shardman! Well that solves the problem, and explains a few things in the graphic novel (the faces mainly)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned."

How on earth do you expect us to do that, Brandon?!? The very fact that those attributes are considered malleable for an individual is noteworthy! It's like saying 'don't worry that there's no oxygen in this room, you'll be fine.' How can we not get hung up on it? Huh?

Anyways... I wonder which of Bavadin's personas we've seen? This statement, combined with the revelation from the Taldain essay that Bavadin influences other worlds, opens the door that some of the gods we've seen on other planets might have actually been Bavadin.

  • On Nalthis, Austre might be Bavadin. He forbids using Awakening, similar to how the Kerztian Sand Lord on Taldain considers Sand Mastery an abomination. Brandon has recently RAFOd whether or not Austre was Endowment, so the possibility is open. (I'm trying not to read too much into a RAFO; just that we haven't confirmed that Austre is Endowment.)
  • Roshar seems like too busy of a place, Shard-wise, for Bavadin to be involved. We've seen several religions which involve conflict between gods, which seems to be explained as the Honor/Odium clash. I'll let this one sit for now.
  • On Scadrial, Trell obviously is a big one. But maybe some of the other religions, the ones Sazed spoke of, were from Bavadin, as well. Although the system is dishardic, for a long period of time (at least 2000 years) one Shard was trapped and the other had a ruined mind. She could have had plenty of opportunities to sneak in and plant new religions, so maybe the original Trell was her, as well. (If Kenton Street has an in-universe explanation, then Bavadin may have incorporated him into one of her Final Empire Scadrian religions.)
  • It's been a while since I've read Elantris, but since both Shards had been Splintered here, this would be another easy target for Bavadin. No specific proposals, though.
6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Austre seems like a good candidate for Bavadin since the Austre religion (forgot the name) didn´t always forbid the use of awakening but only some 300 years ago.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting...

Let's see, we haven't heard of any of the other Shards shapeshifting. All of the other Shard vessels' species (where we know their species) are human, yet we know that not all of the vessels were human. We know that one of the sentient species on Yolen were dragons, and we know that dragons can shapeshift.

Does it sound to anyone else like Bavadin may have been a dragon?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

"try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned."

How on earth do you expect us to do that, Brandon?!? The very fact that those attributes are considered malleable for an individual is noteworthy! It's like saying 'don't worry that there's no oxygen in this room, you'll be fine.' How can we not get hung up on it? Huh?

Anyways... I wonder which of Bavadin's personas we've seen? This statement, combined with the revelation from the Taldain essay that Bavadin influences other worlds, opens the door that some of the gods we've seen on other planets might have actually been Bavadin.

  • On Nalthis, Austre might be Bavadin. He forbids using Awakening, similar to how the Kerztian Sand Lord on Taldain considers Sand Mastery an abomination. Brandon has recently RAFOd whether or not Austre was Endowment, so the possibility is open. (I'm trying not to read too much into a RAFO; just that we haven't confirmed that Austre is Endowment.)
  • Roshar seems like too busy of a place, Shard-wise, for Bavadin to be involved. We've seen several religions which involve conflict between gods, which seems to be explained as the Honor/Odium clash. I'll let this one sit for now.
  • On Scadrial, Trell obviously is a big one. But maybe some of the other religions, the ones Sazed spoke of, were from Bavadin, as well. Although the system is dishardic, for a long period of time (at least 2000 years) one Shard was trapped and the other had a ruined mind. She could have had plenty of opportunities to sneak in and plant new religions, so maybe the original Trell was her, as well. (If Kenton Street has an in-universe explanation, then Bavadin may have incorporated him into one of her Final Empire Scadrian religions.)
  • It's been a while since I've read Elantris, but since both Shards had been Splintered here, this would be another easy target for Bavadin. No specific proposals, though.

Nice. And here I was about to suggest that the Sand Lord is one instance of Bavadin using a male persona. Turns out I was thinking too small. :P

Anyway, I'm not sure what the fuss is about. We've seen Ati pretending to be Reen, and there are plenty of non-Shards with illusion abilities. Seems to me that what Bavadin chooses to appear as at any given moment isn't nearly as important as who it is she is fooling and what they might do because of her.

Edit: I'm pretty sure the Sand Lord is mentioned in the White Sand graphic novel. That makes it okay to talk about him, right?

Edited by Ookla the Insipid
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ookla the Insipid said:

Nice. And here I was about to suggest that [redacted]. Turns out I was thinking too small. :P

Anyway, I'm not sure what the fuss is about. We've seen Ati pretending to be Reen, and there are plenty of non-Shards with illusion abilities. Seems to me that what Bavadin chooses to appear as at any given moment isn't nearly as important as who it is she is fooling and what they might do because of her.

Heads up, White Sands prose spoilers aren't allowed in public. I had to use very careful wording to imply that!

The concern in many peoples' minds isn't how Bavadin appears, it's how Brandon has referred to Autonomy as a "he" in one WoB. It does seem like Brandon's response was more of an in-universe explanation, that Bavadin has appeared in many times in many ways, but that he might not be aware that the drama isn't coming from reconciling Bavadin of the Taldain Essay with a male Sand Lord or a male Trell, but from the one quote from two years ago. If individuals in the cosmere know Bavadin by different genders or species, that's one thing. If Brandon himself can apply either pronoun to the character, that's a different matter entirely.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Heads up, White Sands prose spoilers aren't allowed in public. I had to use very careful wording to imply that!

The concern in many peoples' minds isn't how Bavadin appears, it's how Brandon has referred to Autonomy as a "he" in one WoB. It does seem like Brandon's response was more of an in-universe explanation, that Bavadin has appeared in many times in many ways, but that he might not be aware that the drama isn't coming from reconciling Bavadin of the Taldain Essay with a male Sand Lord or a male Trell, but from the one quote from two years ago. If individuals in the cosmere know Bavadin by different genders or species, that's one thing. If Brandon himself can apply either pronoun to the character, that's a different matter entirely.

*fixes post* Is that better?

Anyway, maybe it's because Brandon was thinking of Bavadin's Sand Lord persona at the time since that's one god his main character for White Sand has heard of. Maybe Khriss is more familiar with one of Bavadin's goddess personas so she naturally uses the female pronoun for the Shard.

Edited by Ookla the Insipid
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

 

  • On Scadrial, Trell obviously is a big one. But maybe some of the other religions, the ones Sazed spoke of, were from Bavadin, as well. Although the system is dishardic, for a long period of time (at least 2000 years) one Shard was trapped and the other had a ruined mind. She could have had plenty of opportunities to sneak in and plant new religions, so maybe the original Trell was her, as well. (If Kenton Street has an in-universe explanation, then Bavadin may have incorporated him into one of her Final Empire Scadrian religions.)

This is my thought too. In fact I asked a followup, although I do not expect an answer.  I have long advocated the idea that the  original Trell sounded too much like something that came out of a tidally locked planet where one side of the planet only sees the night.  But it seems like Bavadin's MO may be even more interesting: she may have founded multiple religions on Scadrial. Judging by how Trell is doing right now these seem like "sleeper cell" religions in many cases - she may not be able to foresee which ones she needs to activate and when, but she will have all of them ready just in case.

 

Also, I agree, Asture sounds like it could be Bavadin as well.  

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe what we need to be looking for is religions that have changed significantly. We know ancient Trell and modern Trell are entirely different. As was previously stated, we also know that Austrism has changed significantly in the last 300 years, and guess what? So did Shu-Dereth, pre-Elantris. I think I am now behind the theory that Austere, Trell and Jaddeth have all been adopted by Bavadin and changed to fit her purposes.

On that note, I believe Bavadin is not human. I doubt it's a power unique to her Shard, just that she's using the Investiture from her Shard to do more with her shapeshifting.

Edited by Amanuensis
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Argent said:

Everyone is Bavadin!

Dammit, you beat me to it.

You're obviously wrong. Every god, goddess and any deific character save for Shards is Bavadin; as far as characters go, they're all kandra save for main characters.

Edited by Ookla the Sunrise Watcher
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Argent said:

Everyone is Bavadin!

Except the Stick, Bavadin tried but she/he/it can't be the Stick B)

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Argent said:

Everyone is Bavadin!

This should be on a T-shirt.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the Internet, nobody knows you're Bavadin.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.