Toaster Retribution Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Kelsier willingly chooses to remain in the Cognitive Realm, and not go to the Beyond, despite the fact that he might meet Mare there. So, what matters more to Kelsier: himself or Mare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 6 hours ago, Chull #445 said: Kelsier willingly chooses to remain in the Cognitive Realm, and not go to the Beyond, despite the fact that he might meet Mare there. So, what matters more to Kelsier: himself or Mare? Surviving. So..himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Himself, definitely. While he surely loves Mare and would love to be reunited with her again, as long as there are secrets to unravel in the Cosmere, he will remain as long as possible. There is also the issue that he is probably somewhat megalomaniac, on top of being psychopathic, and probably believes he can save the day. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 He's got a pretty good track record so far xD But yes, he conned Preservation into letting him stay and then he decided to remain when Vin and Elend went Beyond because there are just too many juicy secrets waiting to be uncovered for his secret-loving self to resist. So I'd think it's quite safe to say that Kelsier puts 'seeing Mare again' at the bottom of his priority list. Now I'm imagining the very end of the franchise when he runs out of things to do and finally passes Beyond... Mare: Do you have any idea how long I've waited? Kelsier: <does sums> Ummm, eight hundred years? That's nothing, Hoid waited thousands of years just so he could get some instant noodles... Mare: You're lucky 'time' is a meaningless concept in the Spiritual, buster. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 20 minutes ago, Weltall said: He's got a pretty good track record so far xD But yes, he conned Preservation into letting him stay and then he decided to remain when Vin and Elend went Beyond because there are just too many juicy secrets waiting to be uncovered for his secret-loving self to resist. So I'd think it's quite safe to say that Kelsier puts 'seeing Mare again' at the bottom of his priority list. Now I'm imagining the very end of the franchise when he runs out of things to do and finally passes Beyond... Mare: Do you have any idea how long I've waited? Kelsier: <does sums> Ummm, eight hundred years? That's nothing, Hoid waited thousands of years just so he could get some instant noodles... Mare: You're lucky 'time' is a meaningless concept in the Spiritual, buster. Only 800 Scadrian years for Kelsier to get irreparably bored of the cosmere? That's a bit of an understatement, don't you think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Eh, I needed a number so I pulled one out of thin air for how long I figure it might take them to get FTL and reach the final era of the Mistborn series. Feel free to substitute your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted November 29, 2016 Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 I actually think he's moved on without noticing. Too exhausted to look it up now, but there is a point in the story where he realizes that he's given her up. To me it read a bit as a mourner waking up one morning and realizing that they went a whole day without thinking of the loss. It also felt to me that Kell does not really believe there is anything in the beyond. As such there is nothing waiting for him there because nothing exists (as far as he is concerned.) So why go? I actually think he may end up in another relationship at some point. Mare is gone. Kelsier has moved on. And I feel that he is aware enough to realize that finding a new partner is not a betrayal of the old. One could even argue that it is a validation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceblade44 Posted November 29, 2016 Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 I do think kelsier is staying for himself but i think its more than that. I think there is something really wrong with kelsier. Everyone that we've seen pass to the Beyond seems to accept, even feels relieved. Kelsier though seems to fear it, really fear it. He finds going there excruciating, there definitely something there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 I doubt he's the only one who's fought it though. Some people are accepting of death; others will fight as long as they can. And Kell doesn't believe there is anything there. He feels he's being drawn toward oblivion. Others may have different beliefs. Then again, it IS the final empire. Death may actually be viewed as a relief by many. Of course Preservation DID imprint the idea of Survival on Kelsier, sooo.... Though I agree; Kell is definitely staying for himself. For Scadrial too, but for himself first. Though he has chosen Scadrial over himself on occasion... it's part of what makes him such a fascinating character. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Kandra Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) On 11/29/2016 at 8:56 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said: I doubt he's the only one who's fought it though. Some people are accepting of death; others will fight as long as they can. And Kell doesn't believe there is anything there. He feels he's being drawn toward oblivion. Others may have different beliefs. Then again, it IS the final empire. Death may actually be viewed as a relief by many. Preservation did mention that there were "runners" before Kelsier (when he starts to run towards the Well), so, no, it's not like he's the only one. So, I don't think him running from death is such a rare thing or a mark of something wrong. Kelsier was just much better at running than most people ever were...xD I think that though, what matters most to Kelsier is self-preservation. He misses Mare, Dox, and Vin, but he's deathly afraid that there's nothing beyond death, and if there's nothing, all the people he misses are gone too. Worse, if he dies, the way he remembers them will die with him. He's probably more afraid of nothingness than he is of himself, and even more than his "psychopathic tendencies", I think his fear of no longer existing is what drives his actions. Kelsier calls himself a coward in the Well, and, in a way, I think he's right. If he was certain there was something Beyond, if he had proof of it, he would be far less afraid of what comes next...If he saw (or thought he saw) into the Beyond and found something there, he'd probably have a whole different set of priorities, though, for staying put... Beyond all that though, Kelsier also has plenty of reasons to stay, I think. It's not just about discovering delicious secrets about the cosmere/investiture (go from murdering anarchist revolutionary to mad arcanist!), or protecting Scadrial from outside threats, he also has plenty of people to stay for too. Marsh is still around, and arguably, Spook, Sazed, Breeze and Ham matter to him too... While yes, he's afraid of death (afraid of there being no more Kell), his lesser priorities still matter a ton to him, too. Plus, it would be interesting to see if he ever gets to a tipping point (or matures...), and chooses the survival of others above the survival of self. He has a lot of Investiture, I've always wondered how much of that stuff it takes before it has it's own Intent and starts to effect the possessor's actions... Edited December 5, 2016 by Kandra-in-disguise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 He actually has chosen the survival of others over himself at least twice. Once when he let himself be killed - though that was also for revenge. Again when he gave up Preservation; he expected Ruin to kill him. He was also willing to remain trapped in the well for a thousand years or longer to keep Ruin trapped, which has to be one of the more selfless things we've seen him do. Indications are also that he would not have taken Mare's geode if he had known it was her only one. Now, if we're talking about sacrificing himself for some random people with no greater cause... I don't think he's capable of that yet. Maybe eventually, but not when we last saw him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I think few are capable of doing something like that. That being said: I WANT MOAR KELSIEEEERRR Seriously. I betcha one of his goals is to figure out what's in the Beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Firefighters, rescue workers, etc. People are more heroic than we sometimes realize. It's that kind of sacrifice that I was talking about. I don't think Kell is capable of that kind of quiet heroism. I do know many who are in real life though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sallin Zeras Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Kelsier is selfish, but in his selfishness, he often finds himself in a situation in which he can chose whether to save the day or not and he's just like: "Screw it, what else would I be doing anyway?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Haven't listened to all of secret history yet but he saved the Southerners which is probably what gives scadrial the stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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