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[Secret History Spoilers] Hoid has restrictions?


tobar14

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On my re-read of Secret History, this sentence jumped out at me. From page 28, " Finally Drifter hauled him up, limp. The man’s eyes were glowing. “That was unpleasant,” Drifter said, “yet somehow still satisfying. Apparently you already being dead means I can hurt you.” "

I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere, but it seems as thought this sentence implies that Hoid/Wit/whatever you want to call him has to play by some rules. We never see him do anything violent in any of his appearances in all of the books. Could that be because there are some cosmere like restrictions on his ability to cause harm to people? How would that come to be, is it part of a magic system?

He seems surprised that he can hurt Kelsier, and he comes to the conclusion that he can hurt him because his physical body is dead. Does that mean Hoid cannot cause harm to physical bodies for some reason?

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Brandon mentioned that Hoid has difficulty hurting people, in the context of a 'if all your characters fought who would win?' hypothetical. We also have evidence for this from Words of Radiance, where he mentions to Shallan in a flashback sequence that he's terribly ineffective at hurting people and 'blames his upbringing' and Rock recognizes him as a Horneater deity who is forbidden by their other gods from hurting people. So the idea that Hoid is for some reason unable/unwilling to harm others isn't new in and of itself, though the fact that he can harm Kelsier (sort of) gives us a slight sense of how this might operate.

And we have no real idea how or why this came to be and any questions about it are likely to get RAFO'd since we're not due to get Hoid's backstory for a long time, so unless it somehow becomes relevant to something published between now and the Liar of Partinel/Dragonsteel books, it's probably going to be one of those mysteries that we can only ponder.

Edited by Weltall
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3 hours ago, tobar14 said:

Perhaps it might be like how Wayne was able to use a shotgun to shoot Telsin. He only could do it because he knew that Telsin couldn't die. Just like Hoid could only hurt Kelsier, because he was already dead?

Maybe. But he also implies the process was still unpleasant for him. If it was a loophole I'd figure he ought not feel.any unpleasantness at all.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/17/2016 at 9:15 PM, tobar14 said:

Perhaps it might be like how Wayne was able to use a shotgun to shoot Telsin. He only could do it because he knew that Telsin couldn't die. Just like Hoid could only hurt Kelsier, because he was already dead?

I don't think so. Wayne's limitations seem to be pure PTSD, no magic involved. I think Hoid's limitations have more mystical origins.

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16 hours ago, Eki said:

I don't think so. Wayne's limitations seem to be pure PTSD, no magic involved. I think Hoid's limitations have more mystical origins.

I think the same, Hoid is actual surprised to be able to hurt Kelsier....He also try to find (with success) the reason for this.

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  • 1 month later...

Hoid doesn't seem to be a real person. He always references himself as some sort of literary creation or invested idea. I don't get the impression that Hoid is a natural person - I think he might be something like Nightblood and a spren mixed with a Lightweaving. His creation may have come with certain limitation when he was storywoven or lightwoven. 

Hoid's birth seems to be a literary one, not a biological one.  It would make sense that Hoid, and idea, could fight other cognative ideas. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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31 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Hoid's birth seems to be a literary one, not a biological one.  It would make sense that Hoid, and idea, could fight other cognative ideas. 

Hoid is (or was) Human, a regular Yolish Human, now its something different but He is born as a Human, we have Wob and some uncanon material about (Liar of the Partinel)

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Odd, I read the liar excerpts and got a distinctly different impression. Could "born  a human" be using a softer definition of 'born"?

Hoid's quote of "I began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page. That was another thing I stole. Myself"  REALLY makes me think Hoid is not a uterus-born human.

Hoid also blames "his-upbringing" as the reason why he can't hurt people. Hoid's childhood seems to extremely atypical 

Thanks again though Yata for being so helpful! Gotta find me those quotes. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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27 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Odd, I read the liar excerpts and got a distinctly different impression. Could "born  a human" be using a softer definition of 'born"?

I stopped my reading of LoP to an early stage because I know if I will read it. I will base some of my conclusions on a uncanon material (like happened with White Sand) but I could only took the WoBs I may find:

Quote

QUESTION

Is Hoid human?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hoid was human a long time ago. Now... It's complicated. We would call him human, and so will pretty much everyone else, but he is not exactly that

or

Quote

QUESTION

Is Hoid human?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes... but. Hoid is... you can say that he is still human, but his DNA have changed. Now he is human but you wouldn't call him Homo sapiens anymore. It happens something similar with the Steel Inquisitors"

Notice also that an Magic made Human is still an Human...almost all the Cosmere's Humans are made by Adonalsium with magic, others are made by Shards (for example all the Scadrial people), so the "uterous-born human" is really a less important factor than you assume.

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Just now, Yata said:

Notice also that an Magic made Human is still an Human...almost all the Cosmere's Humans are made by Adonalsium with magic, others are made by Shards (for example all the Scadrial people), so the "uterous-born human" is really a less important factor than you assume.

I more mean't that Hoid wasn't a complete Human in some meaningful sense. Like, his master Hoid-1 created an artificial human, and Hoid-2, while human, has limitations. Or not? We will see haha.

My money is still on the Hoid being an awakened story character. Thanks for the quotes though! It changes my internal debate!

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